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rockthing

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About rockthing

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    Zep Head

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    http://busaichedelic.org

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  • Gender
    Male
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    Nagoya, Japan
  • Interests
    LED ZEPPELIN!
    All kinds of music and sound - making and recording
    The Game of Go
    Japanese Language
    Stars, Cars, Guitars
    Travelling around the world, or whatever

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  1. At one time a long, long time ago I used to put this record on quite a lot. These days not so much. I have to disagree with the notion that Hot Dog should be left off. It's a silly little riff, that I suspect is a parody of Black Dog, but it's one of Plant's finest lyrics. Great story. Fool in the Rain as well. These are very solid, well-crafted pop songs. Not prog. Not rock. Not weak. Great performances by Jones and Bonham on both too. I'm Gonna Crawl is kind of like Tea for One part 2... and also a lot like SIBLY, so a kind of nod to the past, in a way, but a really long one. Page's guitar flourishes in All of My Love are so un-Page-like that one could ALMOST question their authenticity. I'm not a big fan of the long, repetitive fade-out of this tune, but anyone can see why it had to be included on the album. Judging by his playing on the 1980 tour it sounds as though Page is starting to view the guitar more as a sound source, than a traditional instrument.... his bow solos always went into this sort of territory. There are lots of rich tones throughout the album, but I find some of the structures a bit simplistic and repetitive at times. I also have occasionally thought that ITTOD sounds like perhaps it was Robert Plant's first solo album as produced by John Paul Jones, which I noticed someone else had mentioned. The comparison with LZ II was, as someone else said, "a brave" statement, but those two could be Zeppelin's most Pop oriented records. IV may be their biggest seller, but it certainly doesn't sound to me like they've got their sights set on the Top 40 with that one. I also recall times when I've put this on for company, who aren't particularly deep zep heads, to the chuckling response, "What is THIS?" in a rather uncomplimentary tone. There is a Robert Plant interview somewhere in which he states, "They're ALL good.... just don't start with ITTOD." A friend once told me that he saw Presence as new Zep I, but that they didn't get a chance to make a new Zep II, so ITTOD was like a second Zep III... in the sense that Presence is relatively stripped down to just a rock band in the studio, then TSRTS mirrors Zep II in that it's all pasted together... then ITTOD is total experimentation defying all expectations...mirroring Zep III It's a stretch, but, an interesting idea nonetheless. However, as others have alluded to, their next effort could have fused the rich pop textures of ITTOD with something harder, but also more sophisticated... prog? Maybe. They were always a progressive band, in the traditional sense of the word. Others have suggested that had Bonham not died, Page would have.... conjecture, of course. I wouldn't say I "dislike" this record. On the other hand it doesn't get a lot of air time at my home. I'd put it on right now, but I've got this killer Dazed and Confused from Osaka in 1971 on right now, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna switch THIS off before the song ends.
  2. rockthing

    Peter Grant book

    Though written rather simplistically, I thought the book was really interesting. I'd recommend it to anyone who's read Hammer of the Gods multiple times and is looking for another perspective. ... The Man Who Led Zeppelin... cheeky sub title to boot.
  3. rockthing

    Awkward lyrics/vocals

    The raw, socially unacceptable lyrics are part of what drew 60s teens to the blues. That was like punk rock to them. I think there is an interview with either Jimmy or Robert where one of them says something about not being able to believe what the blues singers were singing about, and being particularly fond of the freedom of expression they had. This was the pre-2LiveCrew white-clean-and-neat late 50s, early 60s. Jimmy often cites Elvis Presley's "Let's Play House" as an inspiration. "In those days he was talking about 'living in sin!.' It just wasn't done." I believe comes close to the original quote. We may be getting to the point when some sort of period cultural context is necessary to appreciate some aspects of Zeppelin's work. However, it seems there really aren't any limits to what can be said in a song in this day and age. I find it a little difficult to believe that anyone would be offended by Led Zeppelin, but be fine with Wutang Clan or Beastie Boys. I've just used three rap examples, but, in terms of (relatively) modern music, that's what I tend to listen to. They get that Bonham-like groove going... when they aren't just sampling him outright. I'm not coming up with any (again, relatively) contemporary Pop or Rock examples. Miley Cyrus? I mean if you're ok with THAT, then I think there's a double standard in play when you criticize Zeppelin. Regarding vocal delivery, well, it would have been even more laughable to have sung Bring It On Home in, for example, an operatic style. I have to question criticism of Plant's singing style based on the tone of his skin. Crooning those songs like Johnny Ray would be equally ludicrous and critiqued as too "straight." Most cases of Zeppelin lyrics blasting through bad taste barriers tend to be appropriated lyrics. Hats of to (Roy) Harper, and Bring it on Home are both making extensive use of quotes from existing material. Robert Johnson may have picked up the lemon squeezing line from someone else who never got recorded... we don't know. In general, though, there aren't many bands that sound as horny as Zeppelin, and few would even try to get away with the innuendo, or brazen misogynistic themes found of some of Zeppelin's raunchier stuff. The ones that do mostly can't pull it off... no pun intended. I find Plant's lyrics becoming more and more esoteric, and abstract through the life of the band. They still get into some pretty lewd territory right through Presence, but that's the Zeppelin world. That's the 70s. They lived that. Being able to write about it as eloquently as they do, is quite an accomplishment, I think. Personally, having become so accustomed to Zeppelin's lyrical approach, I tend to find other heavy bands of the era are pretty hard to listen to. The lyrics, or delivery, usually ruin what would otherwise have been a bad-ass song. Plant is usually the target of whatever criticism people have for Zeppelin, but to my taste, his lyrics are a step above the rest. I mean, you get the feeling that he and Jimmy Page actually read books when they're off the road... I don't get that feeling when I listen to many other comparable band's lyrics. IMHO
  4. rockthing

    What show or live song are you listening to now?

    "Four Rovers in Landover" Cap Center 1977-05-30. "Ten Years Gone" at the moment. There is something wrong with TSRTS... I think I'll try reconverting it... because the sound quality improves drastically as soon as Sick Again starts. Haven't had this on in ages. Pretty much all killer so far.
  5. rockthing

    Favorite/Best Achilles Last Stand?

    Not sure what possessed me to stop by here for the first time in years, but hello, everyone. I couldn't help but be drawn into this thread. 1977-06-23 is the one I usually choose if someone insists on hearing a live version of this piece. Granted, there are plenty of holes in my collection. I see a couple of things I'll have to look for next time I'm on the hunt. This is normally not one of my favorite tunes to hear live, despite the album version (and album it's from) being one of my all time favorites. Slightly off topic, but this keeps popping up in the thread, my personal opinion about the 1980 tour is that the audience tapes sound better. The reverb of the hall, and mix from the front of house speakers are what they band intended the audience to hear. Interesting little tangent Jimmy takes at around 8min in the vid above, but I can't count that as my (the) fav. As has been stated, YouTube videos with still images could be anything, but "Tour Over Europe 1980" in my somewhat dated experience normally refers to Zurich, and I'll go out on a limb and say, that is what you have in the video above.
  6. rockthing

    Led Zeppelin Backstage 1995 Hall of Fame

    I'm no Steven Tyler fan, but I thought he was really good in that jam session... I was surprised. I think those RNR-HOF jam sessions are more for photo-ops, (wow that's (rock star A) with (rock star !) than actual musical relevance, but it would have been nice if the session had gone somewhere a little more interesting. meh, it was cool enough. tbh, I havn't seen it in a while. May be worth searching out. The induction video is really nice, though... Plant wouldn't allow Jonesy to get the last word, unfortunately. oh well.
  7. rockthing

    Jimmy Page Says...

    I woke up to my notification email, but I had to register for the site separately. ie, I registered to get the email, then I had to register again to get into the site. Or, did I just love it up? What's this "A Degree of Murder" soundtrack? Have people already been discussing it in another thread? Very pleased to see he's included his work with Roy Harper. Definitely goes right onto my "Favourites" list. Sadly, I've never been able to see Jimmy live. Only once was I in the same town when he was playing, but well... life has its ups and downs ("and we've been a part of a lot of ups and downs") ... and sometimes you just can't make it happen. I see how I'm going to waste a chunk of my Friday morning now. That would Rock! Happy (belated) Birthday! Were they playing a free show out on the street Great vids, thanks for those posts. Who's actually in the Black Crowes these days? Was that Rich Robinson playing (wish I were Derek Trucks) slide guitar next to Jimmy?
  8. rockthing

    What show or live song are you listening to now?

    "St. Paul Master" lz1973-07-09cas.dat.cdrN.eac.cep just hit the transition from Rock and Roll into Celebration Day (edit) HOLY No Quarter!!! only drawback, you need some "bootleg ears" and perhaps a nice EQ to really get into it. not suitable for top-down cruising, but at the risk of being repetitive, Holy No Quarter! (/edit) (edit) ... and the audience is surprisingly responsive to Moby Dick (/edit)
  9. rockthing

    Led Zeppelin Backstage 1995 Hall of Fame

    Thanks so much for posting that. I'm sure I'd never seen it before, though I'd heard rumour of Jonesy's phone number comment. I'm an old sap, but what a touching induction. The backstage shots are great. I was thinking, holyshix, there's Willie Nelson! but there is a point about there being more of him than JPJ. Jones was always said to have kept a certain distance as time went on. Some things appear to not have changed. Again, thanks for posting. I hope it doesn't disappear soon. The jam session with Neil Young is pretty cool, even if Robert gets a guitar solo and Jimmy doesn't.
  10. rockthing

    What show or live song are you listening to now?

    "Last Stand" Berlin 1980-07-07trw1999 It's kind of a bummer too, but currently "Trampled Underfoot" is really hot "Push! Push!"
  11. rockthing

    July Seventh Nineteen hundred and eighty

    Well, even though it's (reportedly) what killed him, it's tough to argue that Vodka was a drink Bonzo was fond of. The last Stairway.... It kind of starts sounding like they are turning into a jam-band. Page sounds (to me) more like Jerry Garcia (who I also like) than what we're used to hearing from Jimmy. It's searching, but also noisy, like some of the experimental punk music happening at the time. Page's sound is more like sonic textures than notes for a lot of the 1980 tour, and especially on this song. It's been a while since I've had this track on, but it basically becomes a piano song, does it not? Page is barely audible until the guitar solo and the piano takes the lead. Again, it's not what you'd expect, but I find it a very unique performance.... not entirely without merit, albeit, sad, knowing that it would turn out to be the last. The clock rolled over into the 8th quite a while ago here, but I'll have a listen anyway. (EDIT) Wow, Page's playing sounds as frail as he looks in most of the photos from the 1980 tour. Still, I stand by my claim that this performance is not without merit. Quite... mellow.... for lack of a better word, but certainly unique in character. I like how Jones gives Bonzo one of the fill cues that Page sort-of faintly made reference to during the solo without actually playing the signature part. I suppose, though, as Jimmy's playing evolved from the 60s through the 70s it isn't unreasonable for him to continue in some sort of "evolution" (devolution some may choose to say) into the 80s... which was evident in The Firm. It would be a bit untrue to keep rehashing the same stuff... but I guess I'm an apologetic fan boy, but if technical ability were my primary concern, I wouldn't be a Led Zeppelin fan in the first place. I'd like someone like Alan Holdsworth, or Buckethead... amazing musicians, of course. Back on topic, I discovered that neither release of this show in my possession contains Whole Lotta Love... Looks like I have more gaps to fill than I'd thought. "We're just about toured out" - Robert Plant Ok, back to the top, starting over with Train Kept A Rollin'. (/EDIT) @Strider 7th of July 1973 seems to have slipped past me. (OFF-TOPIC) I've just got the sound-check from the 6th. I'm not the completist I should be. I haven't heard that St. Paul show in a while, though. Sounds like a plan for Saturday. (/OFF-TOPIC) @DavidZoso Super pics!!! those are beautiful. Thanks for sharing. @ledzepfilm No doubt! Hard to see how anyone who can afford them doesn't use them. (EDIT) Actually, the Trampled Underfoot from this show is pretty hot, but then again, they usually are (/EDIT)
  12. rockthing

    Vinyl question.

    So, it looks like it could be possible that both the US and Japanese releases came from the same Swan Song plates, who forgot to add "SS" to the matrix number on side 2. I'll have to have a look around to see if other international issues also have those numbers. Seems likely. The GOLDDISC thing is a bit odd. I can't really comment on that. A reissue using the original catalogue number? dunno. It's not unheard of (these days and in some countries... try figuring out Jamaican vinyl!!! ) though it certainly confuses the issue. fwiw, the faint 'pr' is also present in my run-off. I think I went way off the deep end with my last post. It's been a while and you hit on a topic I like to go on about. RE: Physical Graffiti. It's so dense. There must have been tracks just adding the faintest of shades to the sound. "In My Time of Dying" is a really good example of that. The guitar sounds distorted, but actually, the loudest guitar is pretty much clean tone, but there is another totally fuzzed out guitar lower in the mix that blends with the clean guitar in a really interesting way... could be the same performance routed through different amps and recorded simultaneously... I haven't done much research into specific recording techniques for each song. I'm not even sure that information is available. For convenience sake, I tend to listen to the CDs I've ripped and have in my music player (lossless). You've got me curious about the PG vinyl on my shelf, though. III has always been my case study for the virtues of vinyl recordings, but perhaps it's time to revisit an analogue copy of PG too. Also, RE: vinyl quality I think you're right. Not only era but location has an impact on the quality of the media. The records I bought in the 80s always seemed thin and flimsy compared to some older records I've picked up since... again, it depends some on the label too, I think. Well, there ya go! Google would have saved us some trouble, as usual. Like I said above, that number looks to have been stamped onto the label rather than printed, but I can't say definitively that is the case. It seems like a rather odd thing to do. I'm curious now, did you purchase your copy of TSRTS in the US? Being stamped with "vocal group" seems like a kind of old-fashioned thing to do, so maybe my idea about the reissue is way off base. Interesting find. One of these days I'll get round to picking up the C version of In Through the Out Door. Without that one, I have all of the different photograph angles, just not all of the different "wipe" permutations. Copies of ITTOD come fairly cheap and I don't really care if they're first press or in good condition. I'm just buying them for the artwork. Money's been a little tight lately, though, so even that little bit is a kind of hard to justify right now. There are plenty floating around, though, so I'm not worried about the supply drying up. I'll run across it one of these days.
  13. rockthing

    Jimmy Page Says...

    Hello folks. I can't remember the last time I was on here, but my profile says it was some time in early 2010. For some reason I woke up this morning thinking I ought to check in. Good timing, it seems. It's hard not to get pulled into a rant, though, after reading through the thread up to this point. Of course I'll take this cameo as an opportunity to post the longest most irrelevant response in the history of the board, and fail at that too, but I have so many comments on the discussion thus far. I might poke at a few points, but I don't mean harm, just a little sarcastic, perhaps. Whatever happened to that old jimmypage.com the one that handed out free, but useless jimmypage.com email addresses? At any rate, I bit and registered at THIS jimmypage.com too (most likely to receive spam from now until eternity) Somoene mentioned the site as a place to hawk books. An online Equinox Book Store? The site might not have anything to do with music at all. I'm trying to keep my expectations to an optimistic minimum. I'll second THAT! and the comment, which I forgot to quote about looking forward to an unplugged album. I don't think Page needs to prove that he can still rock, like he has seemed to feel over the last 15 years or so. I want him to defy our expectations, the way Zeppelin must have done with each subsequent release. RE: The media being relatively quiet: The media generally only report on what they are invited to report on via a press release. Investigative journalism is all but dead. All of the Led Zeppelin releases this century have been preceded by a deluge of Jimmy Page/ Led Zeppelin cover shots and stories in every kind of magazine you could imagine. It Might Get Loud, however, has not even been released in some countries. The two links leading to articles mentioning the site are something, however, not much compared to seeing Zeppelin everywhere for recent releases. RE: Zeppelin material and who's in charge of releasing it: Aren't compilations released primarily to renew publishing rights? (when contractual obligations aren't a factor, that is) RE: O2 Surely there will never be an O2 DVD. The fan produced download is already pretty dang good. If it were released, I totally agree that, wouldn't it be promoted on the Led Zeppelin site? IOW they got spammed by Sony. :-) Lord help us! Though, this and the Brenda Lee reference do point to Page's references to doing an album with different singers and different guitars, IIRC. ie: nice one. Their refusal to be included in the Live Aid anniversary charity DVD kinda rules that one out, I'd guess. :-) (though, actually, I don't find their performance a total disaster) Nice, thanks for that. So far nothing, but these sorts of things have to be reserved in advance before someone else takes it out from under your nose. And, if the above wasn't enough, I took the trouble to type up some more hocus pocus, since I'm happy to see that this forum is a place where people bring this stuff up openly now. Returning to the symbolism of the expected dates for the countdown to finish: The 14th Chapter of Aleister Crowley's "Book of Lies which is also falsely called BREAKS The Wanderings or Falsifications of the One Thought of Frater Perdurabo (Aleister Crowley) Which Thought is Itself Untrue" reads as such: The 13th chapter reads as follows Personally, I don't think those quotes have anything to do with anything at all to with this. :ph34r:
  14. rockthing

    Vinyl question.

    That, is an interesting question and the start to a great open-ended thread, though, surely there are quite a few other vinyl threads dating back. I didn't check. SS 2-201 should be a US first pressing from 1976 The thing that strikes me, by looking at your photo, is that it looks like that number at the bottom is stamped on to the label. That may just be due to the high resolution scan. I only have one vinyl copy of this album. It's a P-4607~8N, but it also has a secondary matrix number at the bottom of the label, which, I have to admit, I hadn't paid any attention to before. P-5544N1 This number appears to be printed along with the rest of the info on the label. Interestingly, the numbers etched into the run-off look like this: ST-SS-7636 83-G hand carved followed by: P5544N1 in set type There are some other numbers and markings, but they probably aren't of much significance to this discussion. (someone on Discogs is suggesting the matrix is "SJ-7536-G", but I think that's just a misreading of the hand-written number on side 1. The other sides are fairly clearly "SS", except side 2, which is just "ST-7636-G".... quality control... The point that jumps out at me is the letter "G" at the end of the hand-carved matrix number. At first I'd thought that perhaps Mr. Page was using some sort of magickally significant lettering scheme to designate the sides, but unfortunately all of sides end in "G" The other thing, which I cannot verify and is nothing more than speculation on my part is that I immediately thought of the phrase, "Very Good Re-Press" when I saw those letters. I wouldn't put much stock in this theory. I'm sure it's nothing more than a coincidence. I checked Discogs. They have no version with those letters attached to the matrix number. In fact, I was disappointed to see they didn't have an SS 7636 in their database at all. It is, as mentioned above, noted as being the run-off plate number on more than one release, however. The 3rd (very old) edition of Robert Godwin's "The Illustrated Collector's Guide to Led Zeppelin" notes that Good Ol' Swan Song.... Unfortunately, Mr. Godwin doesn't list the mistaken number. So, (not) in short, I can't solve your problem, but I can point out a few things that may help you solve the problem yourself. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than the both of us will come along to enlighten us. When I saw your post it reminded me that I have a copy of LZIII that also has an "ST" preceding the original cat#. In this case ST 33, each in a circle that slightly overlaps the other, preceding the MT 2043 which is the number of the original 1970 Nippon Grammophon press. The ST 33 does not appear on the spine, but does appear on the label above the letter designating the side, but not preceding the catalogue number as it does on the front of the jacket. Incidently, this ringed ST 33 appears in slightly more bold blue than the rest of the number This must stand for "Stereo" "331/3 RPM" .... but I can't verify that. Did Led Zeppelin release monaural versions of their albums? Discogs seems to indicate that this is not, in fact, part of the matrix number.... but, Discogs is a community based database, so could just as easily be incorrect as not. There are numerous errors and inconsistencies. Speaking of the third album, it is my favourite to listen to on vinyl. After owning the CD for (probably) more than 15 years I felt like I was hearing the music for the first time when I put the needle down on an analogue copy I'd initially bought just for the jacket. My hypothesis from that point on was that acoustic instruments, with their much broader dynamic range, sound better on vinyl while electric instruments which are naturally more compressed sound just fine on digital formats. Also, be careful with that one. The metallic fasteners that allow the wheel to spin can also leave a mark on the jacket of records stored in front of it. I slip a small piece of cardboard between any copy of LZIII and the record next to it. You may also notice that there will be a mark on the right side of the gatefold from the inner part of the metallic fastener. Wow, I haven't even logged in to these forums in over a year, much less post anything, I'm glad I saw your topic, though. I may have learned something about my own collection in the process of digging around for your answer.
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