woz70
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Posts posted by woz70
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I clearly remember watching this complete train wreck, having just bought tickets for the Outrider tour. I was beginning to think I'd wasted my money...
Couldn't believe how awful Page was. I mean, I was prepared for merely 'not very good' after the Live Aid debacle, but this was on another level. I think the general consensus is that he'd had waaaay too much to drink before going onstage. He played the Heartbreaker solo like somebody who had once watched Jimmy Page playing it without the sound on.... the motions were there, but his left hand seemed to have virtually zero strength or coordination. I was embarrassed for him.
And yet, six months later at Hammersmith his playing was very good indeed.
I think if he's not touring he simply doesn't practise - he just relies on muscle memory. Muscle memory is a fantastic thing, but if you don't practice regularly you lose strength and dexterity. -
25 minutes ago, Bonzo_fan said:
That makes sense. I'm pretty sure he mixed and matched vocals and instruments between the three MSG nights though: http://www.thegardentapes.co.uk/tgt.html
There was a lot of mixing and matching between whole sections of different nights in some songs in the original release - but not just one instrument/voice.
The easiest way to deal with it (and I think what they actually did) would have been to mix all three nights to stereo, and then edit together the 'best' bits to make an entire performance.
By the time Kevin Shirley got onto the case in 2003 there was the ability to mix and match discrete tracks in each song (hence he was able to glue the mellotron from Stairway in Southampton into Stairway on HTWWW when Jones was actually still using the organ) and even to correct duff notes and incorrect timings. This would absolutely not have been possible in '76. -
7 hours ago, Bonzo_fan said:
As far as the three shows at MSG being the only ones, I believe some of the backstage footage is from Baltimore a few days earlier. If the tapes were rolling already for that show, even if it was only the audio, that would be quite a treat. If they did tape Baltimore though, I'm not sure why Page wouldn't have used some of Plant's vocals from it at the very least as it was arguably his best show of the year. He sure went to great lengths to fix some of Plant's issues at the MSG shows, so why wouldn't he just use the Baltimore vocals if he had them sitting there? Sadly, I've never read anything suggesting that the tapes were rolling already in Providence, which is my favourite '73 show.
It's not like the MSG shows are bad, but if they had recorded and filmed a week earlier instead...Seattle, Boston, Providence, Baltimore -- imagine the live album that could've been compiled from those shows!
With non-linear digital editing that would be relatively easy nowadays.
In 1976 it would have been ridiculously difficult, if not impossible to match a vocal from one show to the instruments from another.
Considering how much variation went on from song to song and from night to night in terms of tempo, dynamic and overall 'feel', I'm still not sure you could convincingly match a vocal from one night to the bands playing on a different night. -
59 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:
He definitely did NOT record ALL of their shows and he definitely does NOT have a recording of every show. He does own a fair amount of multi-track recordings that could conceivably be used for either a live chronological album or a live concert release.
Add to this that recent improvements in audio processing technology have also increased the possibility that multitrack recordings once dismissed as unusable for various reasons could now be rendered viable.
Other innovations have opened the possibility that stereo recordings (soundboards for example) can now be remixed (to a certain degree).
However...
If there's not enough enthusiasm within the remaining band members, they're not going to see the light of day.
If the sales figures versus effort involved don't add up, they're not going to see the light of day.
Jimmy Page has a tremendous amount of inertia, and at the moment he's standing still. -
3 hours ago, Brigante said:
I can't stand those moping clods, the Verve, but wasn't it Andrew Loog Oldham, not Jagger & Richards, who screwed them over Bittersweet Symphony, because it was his string arrangement they'd lifted?
No, it was actually Allen Klein, the stones’ manager, although Loog Oldham did sue later over royalties. Sounds like the whole thing was a bit of a clusterf**k, until May 2019.
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21 hours ago, kirchzep27 said:
Yes, why is it an all digital recording? I never read the liner notes
Please excuse me for being an old ornery lz fan. I saw 2 robert plant shows in 88 and the shows were great, have really nice memories of hearing, in the mood and in the evening and all the zep songs. But that album was always an effort to listen to, for me. Those shows were loud and guitar and drum heavy....but those couple of albums lacked the vibe of fate of nations and mighty rearranger. I think mtv news said it best in 1988 when they interviewed rp, they said, " his own brand of electronic rock." Also, am not a fan of the keyboard sound on those 2 records, to me rp was in a post shaken n stirred mode. Although, if he had a few songs off now and zen on shaken n stirred, with that band,, it would have been a better record.
Still, a remastered video of "tall cool one" .......to me, could be posted in the, " is led zeppelin in the end game" thread.
Yup. It’s a completely digital recording.
You're commenting on production values and instrumentation, not the recording medium. There are beautiful, warm sounding digital recordings and there are clinical cold sounding analogue recordings. It’s not what you record the sound on, it’s what you do with it during the recording, mix down and mastering.
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On 3/28/2020 at 11:54 PM, kirchzep27 said:
I would buy a "now and zen" album of demos and outtakes of messy analog tapes, rather than listen to the cold digital recording of the album again.
Do you enjoy listening to the O2 ‘Celebration Day’ recording?
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2 hours ago, Strider said:
Whoa whoa whoa...hold on there, sonny!
"Power drumming was no longer a thing"? Tell that to Van Halen, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motōrhead, Billy Squire, Phil Collins/Genesis...hell, even a lot of new wave acts like U2 and Simple Minds and Psychedelic Furs were based around big beats and big drums.
You are severely underrating John Bonham's drumming on ITTOD. "In The Evening" is a master statement in precision four-on-the-floor timing yet still having a funky in the pocket feel.
As for the part I have highlighted in bold, I am confused. Are you implying that if Bonham had not died that they would have kicked Jimmy out of the band?
No. Obviously the implication is that Page would have been the one to die.
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2 hours ago, jsj said:
Does anyone know what royalty percentage or cash payment a songwriter might expect to receive or insist on, or for having their song included on a L.Z live album. For example Louie Louie, Hello Mary Lou etc? Removing these songs is a disappointment for sure. Would the cost really be so prohibitive?
Depends on what they/their lawyers negotiate. Could be a lump sum based on projected sales and the length of the clip, could be a percentage. I should imagine lots of wrangling, and big money involved. Just look at the recent Stairway to Heaven fishing expedition by Taurus.
When you consider how badly the Stones screwed The Verve for Bittersweet Symphony (they made not a penny from that song, until Jagger and Richards relented last year I think..) you can see how difficult and long winded negotiations might be.
Then also consider that Page grumbled about Charlie Jones and Michael Lee getting writing credits for Walking into Clarksdale, he probably objects to any amount being taken....
...so the songs get taken out.
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On 3/27/2020 at 9:12 PM, goldenretreiver157 said:
Will the multitracks of both shows ever be released? They played blueberry hill during WLL at Long beach, so sad to not hear it here, and louie louie, marylou.. makes me wanna cry
Not while Page is alive. Especially not when the copyright owners of those other songs want their pound of flesh, which is why they were removed in the first place.
And if you mean the multitracks as literally separate tracks for people to mix..... never. Very few artists would ever release the multis of their music. -
2 hours ago, Paimonus Rex said:
What actual amp/cab or simulator are you using?
These are opinions, not amp settings! He said so.
Scores out of 10 I guess.... 😉
I mean, if you're going to give people amp settings for Jimmy first you've got to specify:
Is it live tone, or the tone used on an album for a specific song?
If it's live:what year?
what amp? (WEM, Rickenbacker, Supro, Vox, Marshall, Petersberg, Orange, Fender, etc...)
what cabinets? (are they open or close backed? what speakers are in the cabs?)
is he using the Tonebender?
is he running the guitar through the echoplex first?
is he using the Pete Cornish board?
just for starters.....
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Here you go.
The rhythm's been simplified to make it easier to tab:
https://www.tunelessons.com/Tab/XKL4WsdA -
4 hours ago, SteveAJones said:
Most likely Spring 1977. Possibly during mid-tour break in May 1977. Fourth and fifth characters of a UK license plate at the time indicated the age of the vehicle.
So 1965 plus 12 = 1977.
https://www.autoblog.com/2017/12/11/robert-plant-1965-aston-martin-db5-for-sale/
No. That numbering system only started in 2001 and does not indicate the age of the vehicle - only when it was first registered.
For this format of license plate - only used between 1963 and 1982 - the Final character indicates when vehicle was first registered for use on the road. (In the UK cars keep the same license plate forever - unless the owner has it changed).
In this case the letter C. Which means the car was registered between January and December 1965.
You can't tell when the photo was taken from the license plate.
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3 hours ago, Gabriel Subțitică said:
Does anybody know why he was using that annoying effect?
Bit of a daft question really.
Because he wanted it.
If the sound engineers had applied an effect to his voice he didn't want, he'd have told them to get rid of it.
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1 hour ago, Fat Albert 72 said:
“Butchered” is somewhat OTT, the former sounds erroneous though but the latter is a remix which makes no sense.
FYI “No Quarter” is identical as are all other tracks apart from the fades but then that’s only to be expected.
Xolo1974 is talking about the machete job done between the 1976 "No Quarter" (sublime) and the 2007 re-release version (a crime against humanity).
Obviously your point is the differences 2007/2018. The bitter taste left by the 2007 version runs deep. -
It’s an interesting article, but you’re going to be disappointed if you think it’ll give you any Page production “secrets”..
No need to dig out a copy of the magazine. The whole thing is here:
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/inside-track-mixing-led-zeppelin-reunion
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37 minutes ago, fede said:
What tuning in "Sons of Freedom" from Walking into Clarksdale??
I can't find even a tabBaritone guitar I believe... Standard tuning down a fifth, so ADGCEA.
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14 hours ago, jsj said:
It’s been about 10 - 15 years of Jimmy claiming there’ll be something “next year”. He’s just a bullshitter
More like 20 years.
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6 minutes ago, nirvana said:
I had heard he had a relationship with Maureen's sister...is that true???
He had a son with Maureen's sister.
Jesse Plant is Shirley's son.
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4 hours ago, bishlap said:
so it's all about the "Hall/room's" PA system?
It's all about the PA the band brings with them.
In the Beatles' day (Shea stadium for example), they'd use the 'house' PA, which was generally a piece of shit used for announcements. But that didn't last long.
After that, for a while anyway, big amps were used, with the vocalist having a PA and the drummer having to bash the shit out of his kit.
Then, finally, everything went through the PA, and that's where we are today.
There are generally two PA's in use at a gig - the front of house that blasts the audience, and the monitoring/foldback/sidefill system that the band get to hear, with their own separate mix.
Nowadays most guitarists will play big gigs with (relatively) small amps or combos (even if they've got a wall of, usually dummy, amps), and rely on their foldback sound so they don't have to stay close to their amp to hear themselves properly. It also means there are less completely deaf guitarists nowadays! -
10 hours ago, The Danelectro said:
This is a temporary exhibit through 10/1/19.
....and the last time it was seen on stage, in public, being played by Page was...?
The point is the "remains in active use" is a little disingenuous. -
The number one "remains in active use today"?
In a museum?
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On 7/7/2019 at 12:57 PM, RMan said:
My guess is that Bonzo weighed 130 of whatever the English unit of measurement is, and Plant said “pounds” because he was in America?
We use pounds (lb) in the UK too.
130lb is just over 9 stone. If Bonzo had weighed that much he would have looked emaciated. Jimmy probably weighed about that much towards the end of the '77 tour.
He was more likely in the 14 - 16 stone range (200-230lb).
In case you're wondering... Kilograms weren't really used to measure peoples weight in the 70s, but 130kg is about 20 stone - more in the Peter Grant range.
Sooo.... Planty was most likely just taking the piss out of his friend.
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...and here’s the car from the outside. About 1:10 on the video.
Bonzo’s Jensen Interceptor appears a bit later too.
Page's method of composition
in Led Zeppelin Master Forum
Posted · Edited by woz70
Despite all this, by far the majority of Zep songs were written and played in Standard Tuning.
Your choice of tuning can greatly influence the overall sounds and textures of whatever it is you compose, but using a tuning on a guitar is not a method of composition, it's just the tool you use to express your musical ideas.
In the early days of Zep, Page was obviously listening to other music voraciously - early blues, the folkiier musicians of the time as well as current bands of the time - and a lot of what he listened to informed his musical ideas (and his choice of tunings). His method of composition was pretty much like everyone else, ever: Listen to the stuff going on around you, stick it in a big mixing pot, add the filter of your own taste and preferences and see what comes out the other end. There's no 'trick' or magic(k) to it. Except, perhaps, the application of your own musical character to make all of the things you have referenced distinctively your own.
He also had access to another great compositional tool - great collaborators who a) didn't necessarily listen to the same things he did (adding different influences can change the way you approach playing literally anything you hear), and very importantly b) came up with brilliant ideas of their own. If you come up with an idea, and run it through that particular filter you often find your own idea gets enhanced by the application of other peoples ideas, and their interpretation of your original idea. I'm sure I recall members of the band saying in interviews how much material came out of the improvised jams (and the way the band interacted in those jams), that happened when they were playing live - one of the best compositional tools there is!