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TheEyeOfZoro

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  1. Cookie0024, nice to hear from you thank you for responding. I am sorry to be just a regular commenting member of the public that has no insider and privileged access to information. I have read all your posts leading up to the announcement of his passing, and with all due respect to any real people who may be his friends and family the name Barrington Coleby is now a meme in the Mythology of Led Zeppelin. And the longer it takes to verify his real identity his identity remains in the "legend" "Myth" category rather than fact. And as a meme of mystery his legend will continue to intrigue fans the world over and contribute to the success and wealth of those associated to the income of Led Zeppelin. As a huge fan of Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin, I think it's fair to want to verify the existence of him as an artist and compare his other works to "The Hermit" or "View in Half or Varying Light". I'ld like to find just one black and white pencil drawing of his that is similar and any real information that he existed. I've tried to verify his existence in the real world but it's strange how there is no public record of his death and I don't personally see a similarity of the other works in style or color to "The Hermit" or "View in Half or Varying Light". A false claim about the authorship of art work has proven precedent with Jimmy Page. Jimmy Page's claims to Dave Schulps in 1977 during the Trouser Press interview, that he drew his own Symbol/Sigil was later proven to be false. The validation of Barrington Coleby as the commissioned artist of "The Hermit" or "View in Half or Varying Light", just not exist. There is no existing artist discussing the experience of the work. So when discussing a similar mystery person responsible for the demise of the Dragon Telecaster, I think it's fair to say there is a recurring theme of a mystery artist falling into this category of creative legend. Have you spoken to the ceramicist who painted in a Mosaic style over the Dragon Telecaster as well? I would to know what happened to him and whether this mishap any impact on his ceramic career. The photograph of the public street artist drawing with Barrington Coleby's name written on the cardboard right next to him was a really nice touch, but reeks of a setup. In most countries street artists get permits and simply wear them or have them folded up in their pocket so that when Police approach the artist they simply produce the permit. But rarely have I ever seen a street artist spell his name out and then have questioning with a Police person when it appears the artist doesn't have a permit. Your posts and all the photos on forums, twitter etc. don't really amount to proof that this person existed. You on the other hand Cookie0024 check out very well and I've determined that you are a close relative to the CookieMonster0025.
  2. For me there are just too many problems with this project in being able to believe that Fender and Jimmy were able to recreate the guitars unique physical characteristics resulting in tone and the original painting. It just seems that the drawing and the parts were just not available to recreate from. The idea that Fender flew all that way to get specs seems silly when the bridge pickup (really the only one he played, ever see him play this guitar with the Neck pickup selected?) and the 58 neck just doesn't seem to me to make sense as being the original. So if its a different neck and pickup the feel and tone are just not going to be the same but rather a guess. The bridge pickup was supposedly ruined with the famed "my friend painted over the original drawing" myth. Who was this person? Barrington Coleby? The other famed artist friend who also fell our with Page who seems to have no verifiable proof of existing other and a handful of Forum associates on here. Let's just say, to ruin the only known art piece of the famed studio musician / Art college student? Lets just say people get knocked off for shit like that. Just sayin'. I once heard a story originating from Eddie Krammer about how crazy Jimmy got when Robert just touched one of Jimmy's guitar during the Hedley Grange photo shoot. If Jimmy was on tour this guitar wouldn't just be laying around for a house guest to have access to. The bridge in this Fender Video is not 58-61 pickup, its a post 64. A 58 Oval C Neck, yet even some of the early marketing literature on the Dragon mentioned thin D. Probably because the other 59's tributes typically have thin D necks. But the big issue I have is with the way the Dragon was painted. Everyone knows painting with stencils is way more accurate especially with paints and allows for very accurate sharp edges and corners. If you look at high resolution images of the Dragon telecaster, there are sharp wedge shaped corners and very thin yellow lines between many of the objects in the drawing. Something that appears to have been omitted in both the hand painted custom shop version and the sticker version are the thin yellow lines. My guess is that Jimmy doesn't seem to remember the original process of how the guitar was stenciled, have access to the original stencils and thought it would be easier to go this paint by numbers process. Frankly it comes off as a close and better than most if not all the other Dragon recreations, but with major flaws. It was stated in some of the press releases that Page hired an illustrator to created the coloring book outline that was ultimately transferred to the guitar for Page to paint in. If you overlay the new version to the original it's spatially way off in many areas and when you add the missing color Yellow and the see rounded edges where things should come to a point, the recreation comes across as a bad recreation. I just don't see myself paying $25K for this. The Sticker version has all the same issues along with not even being paint. What was done was the grain pattern matching and two piece offset ash body. Paul Waller should be commended for this. But I suspect he did the 1959 shape from a standard modern 59 creation template. The original Dragon body was smaller. If one does paint their own Dragon Telecaster, the fruits of that labor, I suspect will be more revealing than just buying the recreation.
  3. Fender's Promotional Video really really adds more to the mystery of the Dragon Telecaster than it answers.... Paul Waller: "Jimmy actually invited us out to his house out in London to Spec the guitar out, usually the other way around when we work on a project like this. As I'm taking the guitar apart, I realize that it's kind of an Odd ball. We are calling it a 59', 1959. The date stamp on the neck is February of 1958, which is a very early version [Tele] with a Rosewood board on it. So we haven't seen very many of those. But in 59' they had done a top load only without the option to string through, this [guitar] actually had both. So it's hard to say whether it was an early production guitar of the 59 [model] that made its way to Europe, or it was a parts-caster that got assembled after the fact with left over parts...and everything indicating the tell tale signs on the body had been erased or sanded away during the striping process." In summary the video shows pictures of: 1) A neck dated Feb 58 2) A neck plate stamped along the bottom with serial #50062. According to the serial number dating resources I've read plates stamped along the bottom with this serial number were made in 1959 -1960 3) The bridge pickup shown is a Grey bottom which were made beginning in 1964. 4) There are two pickup switches in the video that are clearly 80's Oaks Grigsby 3-way switches as found in the 82 Fullerton model and later on USA reissue Strats and also reissue and USA Standard Teles. What they clearly are NOT... are 1452 switches as found in 1959 telecasters. The switches shown in the video could possibly have been from 1969, but most likely the mid 80's. 5) A body that had been striped to the point of showing no typical visual dating clues like pencil markings in the pickup cavity or neck pocket. At least the convincing grain pattern is seen that has slightly shifted as they do after sanding matches photos of the Dragons famous grain pattern. The parts Paul Waller saw in England included: A 1958 (Neck), a 1959 Plate, a 1964 or later grey bottom Pickup, 1959 Bridge, and two 1969 or 1982 switches. I highly doubt that is the Stairway Guitar. The guitar photographed in 1961 with its original owner John Owen (with Jeff Beck to the right of him who later "borrowed it" as he bought it new) was most likely not a FRANKENSTEIN parts-caster. The original guitar owned by John Owen was mostly likely a Mid 1959 or early 1960 Telecaster. I suspect other than the new paint job it was as new that was used on Stairway and then LATER modified. Steve Rosen: "Was the Telecaster the one Beck gave to you?" Jimmy Page: "Yes. There was work done on it but only afterwards. I painted it; everyone painted their guitars in those days. And I had reflective plastic sheeting underneath the pick guard that gives rainbow colors." Steve Rosen: It sounds exactly like a Les Paul. Jimmy Page: Yeah, well that's the amp and everything. You see, I could get a lot of tones out of the guitar, which you normally couldn't. This confusion goes back to those early sessions again with the Les Paul. Those might not sound like a Les Paul, but that's what I used. It's just different amps, mike placings, and all different things. Also, if you just crank it up to the distortion point so you can sustain notes, it's bound to sound like a Les Paul. I was using the Supro amp for the first album and still do. The "Stairway To Heaven" solo was done when I pulled out the Telecaster, which I hadn't used for a long time, plugged it into the Supro, and away it went again. That's a different sound entirely from any of the rest of the first album. It was a good versatile setup. I'm using a Leslie on the solo on "Good Times Bad Times". It was wired up for an organ thing. Guitar Player magazine, July, 1977 The work described in the 1977 interview that was done on the guitar "AFTERWARDS", could have been a re-wiring of some kind and many suspected an out of phase option. What's evident in the above pictures are modern tone caps, green wire, possible a replacement pickup, replacement switches and funky magnetized rubber spacers on the bottom of the pickup. What can't be made out is how the pickups are wired and what the values of the caps are etc. Also when this "WORK" exactly was done is doesn't really matter, because from pages own words in 1977 this work was done on the guitar AFTER Stairway. So it is highly possible that the guitar during the LZ I & Stairway solo was a stock 1959 -1960 guitar with 1959 pickups and what is known as the Dark Circuit: a 1uF Phone Book aka Chicklet cap & .05mF Tubular Cap with a 1452 switch as found in 1959 -1961 telecasters as shown below. This video raises the more questions for me than it answers: Why didn't Fender show any video footage from Jimmy's house other than inserted photos? They flew all that way and took no video? What is with that Grey bottom bridge pickup? Wasn't the bridge pickup destroyed in the "Friend of Page who took it on himself to ruin the paint job myth"? If the bridge pickup was destroyed, then is this pickup a replacement bridge pickup? If so, what's the point of measuring it? Whats with those 4 things brown things stuck to the bottom of the pickup that look like rubber magnetized spacers? Do they alter the sound, stablize the pickup in the cavity or focus the eyes away from that grey bottom? I doubt they were on the pickup when Stairway was recorded, but they really intriguing. Is this Feb 1958 neck the original Stairway neck or the Dragon replacement neck? If this was the original neck why wasn't the Brown B Bender guitar shown without a neck? If this really is the original famous Stairway neck that was later installed on the Brown B-Bender, did Jimmy take it off the B-Bender just to replace it onto the body of the Dragon, or is that a temporary thing for the photo shoot of the Sundragon amp? If so, one of those two guitars will now need a replacement neck. My guess is that the Dragon body here got a replacement Feb 58 Neck and the B-Bender still has the original Dragon neck. The Stairway neck most likely was a 1959 thin D shape and NOT an Oval C shape that was measured and applied to the custom shop Dragons. Fenders marketing literature even had listed on the specs of some of guitars in this run a thin D profile listed, as is typical in 59 replica builds. I own two original 1959 necks. They both are Thin D shaped. As Robbin Ford describes his, they feel like an Old ladies wrist when holding them at the nut. As is well known about JP's Les Paul that was given to him by Joe Walsh, it had a thin shaved neck. I think "Excalibur" was a THIN D sword and it is still in the stone. But that Stone is the Brown B-Bender. My suspicion is in order to sell the Custom Shop Dragon, you really need to make people think that every effort went into replicating the Stairway Guitar down to the very last exact detail. But the paint job doesn't exist to compare the illustration to, the pickup most likely doesn't exist so measuring a grey bottom 64 is sort of a moot excersize considering 59 spec hand wounds ended up into the custom shop and the neck is most likely the wrong year and shape. So that doesn't make for much of a story on replication, does it? At lease the top loader and grain pattern survived. Let's not forget Jimmy also designed the ZoSo sigil himself. oh wait... I think Honorius of Thebes stylized the Artephius sigil in Le Dragon Rouge.
  4. Honestly I'm way happier with my own drawing of the Dragon Telecaster than whoever Jimmy Used as an illustrator for his. So I'm making laser cut stencils for the various color layers. This video is of very thin 4mil mylar. This thickness melts the mylar in places that I wish it didn't. I'm testing 7mm and even thin sturdy acrylic sheets. My Drawing centers around the bridge holes so the Red, Green, Orange and Blue all have an anchor point. Also let's not forget the yellow between the Red & Green lines. When you really study the original guitar and see how straight and sharp the lines are, there is no doubt the original guitar was done with Stencils. I heard via a 3rd party (which very well have been a rumor) that Page even found his original stencils. I love that Page applied paint to the custom shop models himself, but at his age to free hand them via a paint by numbers strategy simply could not have been how the original was done and should NOT have been how these were done. Laying the yellow down first and then applying the Red & Green over the yellow is the only way to get the yellow so thin and accurately between.
  5. Now that I'm back from NAMM and having seen all of the guitars up close at the Fender booth, I have a few praises, comments and criticisms. First the Praises: 1) Paul Waller seeking out Cathedral Grain patterns with a clear plastic template and building the bodies as two piece off center as on Jimmy's guitar body takes a lot of time and effort. As he points out the grain pattern really was very much apart of the character of the guitar. The Dragon is a living object and paying respect to the wood of the guitar is important in my opinion. That took care and craftsmanship. Paul deserves a lot of respect for the wood working part of this build. 2) Paul and his team flew to England and measured the neck and the claim here is that the neck is the exact shape as Page's. If this guitar really is "Excalibur" as Jimmy referred to it in his press release interview, then the Neck is the sword. The bow was the wand, but the neck was his sword. If it is the neck from the original, the fact that he pulled if off the guitar and put it on B-Bender a guitar that in his later part of Zeppelin and the Firm, shows how much he loved it. The phrasing on the Chopin Etude on the ARMS concert is an example of how much he evolved with this neck. 3) The Diffraction grating film under the pickguard is correct. Maybe a little overstated as the film Page used wasn't as strong as this sheet. I hate seeing people build this guitar with aluminum foil or some other garbage. This type of sheet Jimmy Page refers to in the recent Fender Promotional interview as the "7th Element". An interesting reference to Helena Blavatsky. Page as always maintained the Diffraction grating ( a term used for the sheets on CD's) he placed under the perspex pick-guard as giving off Rainbow colors. “Yes. There was work done on it but only afterwards. I painted it; everyone painted their guitars in those days. And I had reflective plastic sheeting underneath the pick guard that gives rainbow colors.” ~ July 77 Guitar World Steve Rosen Interview 4) Jimmy Page chose, supplied and applied (some of) the colors/paints onto the guitars directly. This is cool as as it should be. Lets face it ta lot of the $25K is for the Autograph. Because a more accurate 59' build does not cost anywhere near this. Hell you can get a real 59 for under $25K. Very close and yes many sell at or above but I own a 58 and 59 and I didnt pay anywhere near that. 5) Love that both versions of the guitar are offered. As they are linked visually. NO CIRCLES ARE NOT A NOD TO SYD BARRETT. The Circles are a reference to the Dragon. So a "SET" of guitars is a great metophor to their actual significance. And Yes the Mirrored STICKERS were applied before most people ever saw SYD's. I doubt Jimmy Saw SYD's prior to DECEMBER 66, when they were applied not FEB 67 as Fender claims they may have been applied. 6) Watching the young kids pickup and play the cheaper Dragon was awesome. They loved it. And that to me is the best part of this project. The comments/criticisms: 1) I'm surprise Fender and Jimmy didn't try and go for an as it was look. Relic'ing to some extent like on the Mirror'd version. The under the pickguard ripples, cloudy appearance, bleed through paint, and markings. None of these are present and absolutely could have been achieved with known photos. 2) The MIRRORS were NOT actual mirrors. They were metal reflective stickers that got stuffed in time and needed to be constantly polished to keep them refecting and they had NO GLASS on them. So why do that now? Just simply not accurate. Also FENDER Does't ship these ON THE GUITAR but rather IN THE CASE. Why because they don't want to be accountable for the double sided sticker to damage the finish. Lame. 3) The neck doesn't have clay markers on the Custom Shop. Really? Why? That's what JP's neck had. 4) I'm confused about the Signature on the back of the neck. Is it only on the White Mirrored CS version? Seems as though if you want that awesome graph you need to buy both. Wow! Really? Please correct me if I'm wrong. 5) The Dragon doesn't seem to be finished. NONE of the Yellow paint between the Red & Green & Orange lines are present. Its just raw wood where there was clearly YELLOW paint on the actual guitar. There isn't even Yellow on the Made in "Ensenada" version. 6) The MIM version is like a bulky sticker that is raised off the body. I could have been a silk screen or some other option but its dull in color and feels weird. 7) Lastly, while I get that the drawing was re-illustrated with Page's supervision, its close but off in sections. Out of proportion and the fine lines and corners of the original which to my eye look to have been painted with a razor cut stencil are simply rounded in corners making it look like a bad art students rendition. If the original was done with such accuracy (with what seems to be an easier approach), why was't this one? 8- The pick-guard is too big on the top arc and covers the Serpent lower mouth. Hides the essence of the visual object. Covering key parts of the image, hides its meaning. Maybe thats what Page wanted who knows but its more because Fender based this pick-guard off of an actual Telecaster pick-guard shape and not the CUSTOM one made for page. Which was no where to be seen in the onsite Fender visit photos. 9) That Fullerton 3 way switch in the pics, the 50062 bottom stamped Neck plate (1959-60) and a Feb 58 neck? Really? This guitar is mysteriously a major Mutt/Partscaster. Hard to believe that the neck and NECK PLATE are so far apart. Something smells fishy here. The body has all the grain pattern markings of the real Dragon. But something is fishy to me. Did Page really pull this neck back off of the B-Bender. The paint makings on the neck heel are interesting but who sands off the date stamp INSIDE a pickup cavity and neck cavity? That is some serious sanding that this guitar had. You would think it was a gun used in a murder or something. 10) Has else noticed the the white rope around the bridge pickup as NO PAINT ON IT WHAT SOEVER? What happened to the myth of the body be being painted over ruining the bridge pickup? Did this pickup get rewound and rewrapped with new cloth? The rosin build up on the magnet poles could not be seen in the video and is not in the relic'ing so.... Those magnet/rubber spacers are cool but simply keep the pickup in place. I'm sure some audiophiles will say the magnets do something. Well lets hopefully see what the custom wind output ends up being when they are in the hands of buyers. I think the $2500 Mirrored version is a great guitar. And a silk screen/autograph is worth it to me. I see myself buying one. I'll probably stripe it and paint my own Dragon.
  6. Oy.... $12.5K and half are gone.
  7. I do have to say, I love the name of this new amp collaboration "The Sun Dragon". I see two Suns in Page's Dragon or a "Sun Behind a Sun". Did I read this right, Page's Stairway amp fell out of the back of a Van? What is it with this Stairway gear? Seems like the Tone Bender foot Pedal, the amp and Guitar all seemed to have their own "curse". So glad the amp and guitar have risen once again... Here's a visual mashup I did recently in celebration of this new NAMM announcement. Enjoy the insanity...
  8. You know the more you look at this guitar that Jimmy is holding taken by his daughter for the Sundragonamp promotion, it does appear to have a the right grain pattern shape and there is a tiny knott in roughly the right spot. When you sand the face of a guitar the grain pattern is going to alter and shift, so clearly IF this really is the Dragon telecaster body this grain looks really close but slightly altered as would be expected from sanding. So I stand corrected. This really could be the Dragon with a new paint job.
  9. I will say this is by far one of the best illustrated recreations of the original dragon design, but still has some spacial issues to the original drawing as would be expected. It definitely was NOT made from a tracing of the original design or any stencils that made have survived the summer of 1967. I had previously heard rumors that Page had found stencils from which the artwork for the guitar was made, from second hand information from guitar luthiers claiming to have been approached by a personal photographer friend of Pages that was implying they may have the possibility of doing the Dragon project. When I later read the October 10th press releases that Jimmy had hired the illustrator who worked on the Led Zeppelin by Led Zeppelin to recreate the artwork for the Dragon, that theory or rumor seemed to be put to bed. So I will be at NAMM waiting to see the created artwork up close. Hopefully a custom shop model will be on hand. The guitar modeled for the Sundragon Amp is definitely NOT the original body painted over. While the cathedral gain pattern on this guitar is very close and a beautiful match, it is slightly to the left of the actual Dragon's body. This rendition has variations from the actual Dragon design that (if I were expecting to pay $50K for a set of Custom Shop Relic'd recreations) I wish were there. They are for me as follows: 1) A little bit more accuracy on the drawing itself. For example the Sushumna column on the left left is way to far over and too much of the red serpent is covered and Djinn Lamp shape and inner Djinn are a little distorted. 2) The areas in red that had bleed the white primer through causing it to turn pink are not present anywhere in this. 3) The ripples in the diffraction grating caused I believe by I believe wet paint when the pick guard was reapplied after the painting are not present. 4) Also the green paint bleed at the top of the pick guard, the red smear, black smudge and white cloudy "substance" between the clear pickguard and diffraction grating are also not there. It's as though it is a clean new sheet of diffraction grating. Now I get that is how Page installed the rainbow effect diffraction grating prior to the paint job as can be seen in the April 30th Chaville France Yardbirds show, but still the character of this guitar captured on film from the summer of 1967 through May of 1969 includes these visual artifacts. An accurate relic is an accurate relic. So I doubt this is the final product. I expect that the Custom Shop will have a far more accurate rendition and that later this week we will see what $25K and 8 months of getting it right, will reveal. I Love that Jimmy is doing this project AND making a low cost made in Mexico version. I think he has every right to bring this guitar to market and I think this Consecrated Talisman is the most important musical living objects ever made. Mad props to the Magus.
  10. I will say this is by far one of the best illustrated recreations of the original dragon design, but still has some spacial issues to the original drawing as would be expected. It definitely was NOT made from a tracing of the original design or any stencils that made have survived the summer of 1967. I had previously heard rumors that Page had found stencils from which the artwork for the guitar was made, from second hand information from guitar luthiers claiming to have been approached by a personal photographer friend of Pages that was implying they may have the possibility of doing the Dragon project. When I later read the October 10th press releases that Jimmy had hired the illustrator who worked on the Led Zeppelin by Led Zeppelin to recreate the artwork for the Dragon, that theory or rumor seemed to be put to bed. So I will be at NAMM waiting to see the created artwork up close. Hopefully a custom shop model will be on hand. The guitar modeled for the Sundragon Amp is definitely NOT the original body painted over. While the cathedral gain pattern on this guitar is very close and a beautiful match, it is slightly to the left of the actual Dragon's body. This rendition has variations from the actual Dragon design that (if I were expecting to pay $50K for a set of Custom Shop Relic'd recreations) I wish were there. They are for me as follows: 1) A little bit more accuracy on the drawing itself. For example the Sushumna column on the left left is way to far over and too much of the red serpent is covered and Djinn Lamp shape and inner Djinn are a little distorted. 2) The areas in red that had bleed the white primer through causing it to turn pink are not present anywhere in this. 3) The ripples in the diffraction grating caused I believe by I believe wet paint when the pick guard was reapplied after the painting are not present. 4) Also the green paint bleed at the top of the pick guard, the red smear, black smudge and white cloudy "substance" between the clear pickguard and diffraction grating are also not there. It's as though it is a clean new sheet of diffraction grating. Now I get that is how Page installed the rainbow effect diffraction grating prior to the paint job as can be seen in the April 30th Chaville France Yardbirds show, but still the character of this guitar captured on film from the summer of 1967 through May of 1969 includes these visual artifacts. An accurate relic is an accurate relic. So I doubt this is the final product. I expect that the Custom Shop will have a far more accurate rendition and that later this week we will see what $25K and 8 months of getting it right, will reveal. I Love that Jimmy is doing this project AND making a low cost made in Mexico version. I think he has every right to bring this guitar to market and I think this Consecrated Talisman is the most important musical living objects ever made. Mad props to the Magus.
  11. In August of 1967, the guitar was painted with the Dragon. The circles were removed in April 1967.
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