grasbo
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Posts posted by grasbo
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Yes back to jimmy, I did go off there.I always found his acoustic work very intricate ,save for Hats off to R.H.but that's ment to be messy.And Born Yr Air of PG is a fine piece of fingerpicking.I was giving Candy Store Rock a spin and there is some great riffing in there and wish the tone and playing could have been applied to Hot Dog(yes I know I am going on about that again).There are times when Page is really spot on like Ten Years Gone,Stairway and Song Remains(on the companion disc,a revelation)but seemingly falls in a heap on certain unmentionable tracks.I remember when I bought TSRTS my third Zep lp where the title track sounded like an unholy mess and then it segues into The Rain Song which shows some delicate intricate stuff.I suppose that's what's keeps us on our toes wih him .Maybe we should change the thread title since it's no longer about Jimmy.
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Hey I own a Pacifica and a Mustang 2 but I do have other gear as well as you can see by my avatar.Back in the 70s when i was learning the cheap gear was crap but us kids felt like a million dollars.Gibsons and Fenders were way out of price range.There was this snobbery that you were'nt a proper musician unless you owned a Fender or Gibson,or maybe Ibanez,but only just.Kids are damn lucky with all this new gear but i just wish they would learn or at least learn a bit of old school stuff.I filled in on bass at short notice fr someor young guys for a gig and i suggested All Along the Watch tower.They didn't know it,had heard of Hendrix but only just,never heard of Bob Dylan.They werei about 20-22 and ended up playing 20 Foo Fighters songs that nightWell, has nothing to do with age or being grumpy. It's just plain true.
It's a good thing, that I see kids/teens these days joining bandcoaching projects. However, it's amazing what kind of gear these kids have.
They own guitars, amps and other gear I will certaintly not have the money for..... I own a G&L ASAT Bluesboy semi hollow (basically a Tele Thinline), a Yamaha Pacifica and an Ovation Celebrity, My amp is a Fender Mustang 1. Off course I would love to own incredible vintage gear, but even this working girl can't pay for that........
The Ovation used to belong to my stepbrother, I've had the Yamaha since my teens and only recently purchased the G&L
OK, so my gear is not the best of the best. I think one of the things with truly making music, is making the most of the instrumentation you actually have or can afford.
Kids/teens today hardly learn to play with emotion/feel, it's all about showing off expensive gear (their parents must truly make plenty of money I guess, ugh...) and playing at lightning speed.........
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I wouldn't call his playing slick on ITTOD (although the album sounds slick)but delightfully loose.That solo on IGC is probably the highlight of the album.The sound of the guitar is a killer,a rough vavle overdrive sound with the vintage Les Paul(i think!)guitar,something which is missing a lot from to days processed sounds.I think the term delightfully loose describes Pages playing perfectly,or should that be 'tight but loose'One thing no one has ever really mentioned on a forum is how slick much of Page's playing is on ITTOD. I really dig much of the solos
here, simply because it's another side of Jimmy. But to tell you the truth, when Page did the thing with the Crowes, I didn't like it all
That much because the format meant everybody was sort of on a leash. And Page to my ears should be taking chances, playing
Kamikaze,, basically sounding unpredictable. Jimmy is sloppy but he has PROVEN that if required, he CAN do the flawless solo.
I'm Gonna Crawl.......perfect.
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The reason so many young kids are playing that way is because of Guitar Hero and other digital programmers.I played along to garage band and found myself stagnating as opposed to a live drummer/bassist.Also there has been so much advancement in technology with guitar equipment that kids are getting more involved with that than actually music.Also guitar magazines are filled music tabs and free cds transcribing every technical nuance of Satriani,Malmsteen,Petrucci and those ridiculous guys out of Dragonforce.Very rarely does it mention anything about feel,emotion.When I was a kid I just had a cheap guitar and an old homemade amp,but I tried to get the most out of what i had.Nowadays kids have got loop stations and other gizmos doing the work for them.Perhaps i'm just grumpy old manAs a player of 30+ years when I first started playing in 83' the only live Zep I ever heard was TSRTS and listening to NQ & D&C or the Stairway solo all I could think was how any human could play an instrument so brilliantly. Yet i also noticed on other songs him sounding like he really either did not give a shit, let's get on to D&C, or he was just chill in the groove.
Anyway, I started in classical playing trumpet in jr. High in 79', classical & jazz only with an occasional Chicago, Chuck Mangioni, or Alpert tune thrown in for good measure. After years of conductors and teachers screaming, "allegro, allegro, tempo is dragging" or after playing a Bizet composition flawlessly, having the instructor say, "you were flat on the C at the beginning of the second movement" I figured fuck that. After all if Chopin & Beethoven could improvise fro time to time, why not me? No song is sacrosanct, they are ALL up to the individual's interpretation. So, I got out of classical, dropped the trumpet, picked up the guitar and began playing music with feel...the blues. Blues is still my all time favorite genre.
I have said it before and I will say it again: I can go to ANY town and find a 12 year old guitar phenom who will hand Vai or Satriani their ass on guitar without so much as raising a sweat, however I have NEVER met a 12 year old or even 18 year old guitarist who could phrase like Page. I don't care how proficient someone is, without feel it is meaningless, and that is a very, very hard line to walk.
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Yes I have 3 early Van Halen boots and its pretty well all over the place,not to mention David Lee Roth attempting to sing.Its up to Mike and Alex to hold it together like Mitchell and Redding when Hendrix went off on wild tangentsI think overall it would be accurate to call Jimmy a not infrequently sloppy player. But things are much more complex than that.
Live, let's say from 71' to 73', there are plenty of live Heartbreakers where Page is very fluid and is playing sometimes 25% faster
Than the studio version. Also live DAC after the vocal verses with the "double time" part, there are many versions where Page is
Fluent and almost playing thrash metal speed. But absolutely, even from the start, Page would sometimes get sicky fingers. I
Actually believe this might be partially just part of his physical makeup, just like his large hands, long arms, etc.,. Everybody has
Commented on almost everything else , but I must add: Get a hold of some early VH boots ; for all of EVH's technique, his live
playing Is just totally kamikaze and wild, he in fact often does the Page thing of completely ignoring the rhythm section, and also
Sometimes barely comes back in on the verse in time.
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Yeah I know what you mean.Page probably sat back to the final take of Hot Dog and thought I want it to sound a bit rough like a barrel house blues so that will do.But trust me when he misses those notes in the opening riff it sticks out like hot dogs balls.As a long time Zeppelin fan (38 years) I am not really a fan of the Hot Dog track overall but that doesn't mean its not a great example of the genre. How do any of us know what Jimmy intended to play?
So what if that pinky isn't clean maybe its just how he wanted to play it!, ever think of that.?
We cannot/should not pigeonhole Jimmy into playing things the way You/we/they/me "think" it should be played any more than you can tell a fish how to swim.
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Clare Torry sang a major part in that song,just like those kids in Another Brick in the Wall.On Taurus its just a few bars(not very long)Is their a statue of limitations for civil suits? Clare Torry sued Pink Floyd (and won) over her contribution to The Great Gig in the Sky over thirty years after the release of Dark Side of the Moon. Of course, that case was in the UK and their civil laws are probably different.
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Boris' women were'nt so bad on the eye......but totally unrealistic!Most guitar technicians = Boris Vallejo
Tight, precise and soulless......
Page = Frazetta
Loose, emotional and brimming with fury....
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That was a great moment in the movie.White with his loud and for me too 'in your face'take on the blues and The Edge with his three tons of effects, Page just armed with the vintage Les Paul and amp just stands up and just casually strums WLL.This is how its done kids!I'm not a guitarist so I can't comment on Jimmy's technical or non-technical approach to the guitar.
However I do have a good ear for music and I would categorize Jimmy's playing as "controlled chaos".
Not "Clapton-like" note perfect but not so out of control that the music is unrecognizable.
Sometimes he is (was) in a zone and just god-like incredible and other times he makes you grimace with embarrassment.
Fist raising power or head shaking yikes.
I honestly think his most "recent" genius was seen in the movie "It Might Get Loud". He was so in control and powerful
that even the Edge and Jack White were in awe.
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I have said this before that my pet hate is his sloppy solo on Hot Dog,but I would rather have his solo than have someone like Yngwie Malmsteen or John Petrucci murder it.Don't get me wrong I am impressed by the precision and speed of their ilk but when I hear Page fluff a note or two I know he is only human and adds that bit of charm to his playing.Still I hope there is a different take of Hot Dog on the upcoming companion disc.
P.S.Hendrix ar Isle of Wight,worst case of sloppy playing but he was in a bad space.
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Page was certainly sloppy on stage like Hendrix.Both masters in the studio honing their craft but they took it somewhere else on stage ,both hit or miss.But one quibble,Hot Dog is terrible and Over the Hills and Far Away solo is ........!Ok ,fire your guns!
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I remember I was at work when it came over the radio of John Bonhams death.I thought there and then that's it.However when there was talk of Cozy Powell and Phil Collins stepping up I thought maybe.Living in Tasmania we were far and away of what was going on in 'Rock Music'save for 3 month old Sounds and NME mags(no internet kiddies).Apart from Robert sons death there was no mention of drugs,booze or Oakland punch ups.When nothing came of anyone filling the drummers stool and Robert solo lp came out that was it.A glimmer of hope and excitement came when there was the Page,Plant,Squire and White project was splashed over a couple of pages in an American glossy.After seeing Live Aid I went 'No'.By this time I had moved on to other bands(Rush) and Zep was becoming a not too distant memory.I was against any reunion because they usually seem watered down ,lacking fire,etc.However I was looking forward to O2 because Jason had become a power house drummer and the other three seemed to agreeing with each other to do it(for Ahmet).Great concert, dvd,would love to have been there,case closed,finished.To summarize my ramblings,yes it was right to disband after John's death and yes it was right to do O2 with Jason.
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Wrong.Page used a lot of different tuning on his so called folk songs Black Mountain Side,Friends,That's The Way,Born yr Air(Stomp),Kashmir,Rain Song,I could go on, but he is a thieving magpie.Hmm not many power chords?Plenty of riffs though!Sabbath - Heavy Metal
Led Zep - Hard rock (WRONG)
But wait, 47% of LZ's catalogue is folk/acoustic. Only 26% of their album output can be considered original rock songs. 26% freaking percent, people. Hard rock band? I think not.
LZ's rock tracks are all in the keys of A and E, use standard tunings, and hardly use power chords at all. Page borrowed every stock-in-trade technique from blues and rock and roll for his paltry rock song output.
LZ was a freaking folk band.
LZ was nothing more than eclectic stylisations, extreme loudness and developments in production.
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I wonder how many buildings were damaged structually by those loud Led Zeppelin boys in their heyday.Deep Purple did it to a stadium in New Zealand in the 70s for being a bit loud.Seriously ,heavy earth moving equipment and demolition work does damage buildings as my parents found out.
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Bob Dylan's Christmas in the Heart is an absolute ripper.My wife who loves perfect harmony singing like The Beach Boys,Bee Gees etc has barred me from ever playing it again.Hark the Herald Angels Sing is a gas.
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I am really liking the sound on over the hills alternate version, its got a flatter finish to my ears, a step towards physical graffiti sound. The guitar on dancing days also sounds dulled a bit, it sounds good like that. I would have loved to have heard a low tech version of no quarter, without synths, but i guess there could be material to be future marketed on rhino box sets or whatever.
I always felt the original albums production was too harsh.It now seems smoother or as you say 'flatter'which is a good thing.The instrumental TSRTS is a gas,I am really giving it a spin.I would really like to slow Plants chipmunk vocals down and add it to this track.Dancing Days also benefits from this 'dulled' sound.I thought we might have got the fast version of No Quarter which is on the Stairway Sessions bootleg but i am glad we didn't as this instrumental take is really haunting,like the soundtrack to some 70s horror movie like The Exorcist.
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Just got the 2cd deluxe.That confounded bridge,sorry banner ,is still hard to get off just like the original lp.The original album on the cd sounds a lot clearer and much better separation of the previous re master.But the big change is Plants vocals sound less shrill,a lot smoother,although nothings gonna save his horrible too close to the mic vocals to the crunge.Also Pages woeful solo on OTHAFA sounds smoother and i actually don't mind it.The companion disc offers few surprises.The biggest being TSRTS.This really works as an instrumental and Pages guitar work is a revelation.Now one thing I've noticed,we don't get the back cover!I will be keeping my last re master copy for reference!
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When I was about 13 I got Goodbye Cream out of our local library(this would have been about "75).I dropped the needle on I'm So Glad(live).Once they got into their free form jam thing I was floored.Stuff what Clapton was doing,I was listening to Jack and Ginger.I had never heard the bass been played like that.On learning of Jacks passing I put on I'm So Glad followed by Spoonful from Wheels of Fire at 8am in the morning.Very Loud.I was in heaven for half an hour.The wife wished I was in hell.So long Jack.We will try and keep cranky old Ginger in line.
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I am a fan of all eras of Sabbath.I really love the stuff with Tony Martin save Forbidden which is dreadful.I wore out Head less Cross vinyl.
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13 is a real grower.When I first bought it I felt a bit underwhelmed by it.I then remembered they were going for that early sludge,doomy sound,not the high gloss of later lps.Tony Iommi 's sound changed around Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.So did Geezer's bass and i was expecting that kind of sound.This album could have been made in the early 70smy favourite era.I am really givingit a big spin now.
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Apart from Zep,Rush is my favourite band but these reissues of both bands is keeping me poor.Despite being out of work I am going to find the money for R40 blueray because I already own the dvds(not to mention paying for a blueray player).Now to rob a bank for Deluxe 4 and Houses.
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Ann Wilson and those symphonic rock queens as mentioned by redheaddamsel,Sharon den Adel,Floor Jansen and the one with the most incredible range Tarja Turennen.Saw her once with Night wish years ago,unforgettable.
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Agreed Dark Lord,that weird guitar part is all Page,the tone,the phrasing.I would be shocked if that is Paul Rogers. People rubbish those two Firm lps,I think they are great and Rogers voice is one of the greatest. Also a Chris Slade on drums is touching on the hallowed Bonzo turf.
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Wishbone Ash -Pilgrimage.Wife in bed, im on the back deck,pissed with the boombox going.Havn't played it in years,Argus or Live Dates might be next or Focus3.
So is Jimmy Page a 'sloppy' player?
in Led Zeppelin Newbies
Posted
Of the three Yardbirds Jimmy is the one for me because of the adventurous spirit of his playing and that goes for the whole band.Claption for the most part bores me because he is just really a blues player and easy laid back player at that,since he left Cream.Beck just leaves me cold.I love the English style to Pages playing.I think Clapton wished he was born in Chicago.But I do respect their playing (Beck and Clapton) but i probably wouldn't go out of my way to listen to them if they weren't so well known and revered.Give me 'sloppy'old Page any day