swandown
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Posts posted by swandown
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imo сredits of a few songs have been revised and changed in recent years, more likely under the critics' pressure and the threat of court
although the first swallow was the case with "THE LEMON SONG" - with originally credits (Page / Plant/ Jones / Bonham),
then LZ desided to change the name and credits as: "KILLING FLOOR" (Burnett),
but later returned to previous names
In December 1972, Arc Music, owner of the publishing rights to Howlin' Wolf's songs, sued Led Zeppelin for copyright infringement on "The Lemon Song". The parties settled out of court. Though the amount was not disclosed, Wolf received a check for $45,123 from Arc Music immediately following the suit, and subsequent releases included a co-songwriter credit for him.
[Mick Wall, When Giants Walked the Earth: A Biography Of Led Zeppelin, London: Orion, p. 150, 2008]
I think Mick Wall is exaggering when he says that Howlin' Wolf received a check "immediately following the suit". From what I've read, Arc Music tried to keep the money for themselves, and they did not pay Wolf until after he sued them in 1974.
later Willie Dixon successfully sued with ZeppelinIt's true that Dixon's name was subsequently added to the credits of "Whole Lotta Love", but his name was recently removed by ASCAP and he's no longer listed as the song's co-writer by the U.S. Copyright Office.
Also, Dixon did not win his lawsuit. It was settled out of court on the second day of trial.
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it seems unlikely that a typo error could occur on two releases
For what it's worth, Bonham is still credited as a co-writer by the ASCAP song publishing organization, and he was also listed as a co-writer in Led Zeppelin's 2002 lawsuit with Atlantic Records.
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I have an article a friend sent me that was in the magazine FourFourTwo (the September 2002 issue). Below is a picture from the article of Robert surround by Wolves paper material. If you notice there's a cd pictured called "The Howling Wolves" with the Wolves logo which Robert's solo logo is similar to. I apologize for the blurry image but the pc with the scanner is down so I took a pic.
Just throwing out a guess here, but.........the official Wolverhampton website has dozens of DVDs and CDs for sale, featuring game highlights and various cheer songs. I couldn't find anything called "The Howling Wolves" on the site, but it could have been an older CD that is no longer offered.
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From my notes:
Boston, MA January 1969: An hour after one of their three shows at the Boston Tea Party that week, Jimmy exits dressing room with Lynn Collins, who had until that time been living with vocalist Steven Tyler on 21st Street in New York.
Obviously, this means the Lynn Collins in the photograph taken in 1968 is not the Lynn Collins who was living with Steven Tyler. All I can add is if I recall correctly the Lynn Collins in the photograph may be the bird Robert recalls opening the door to Jimmy's boathouse in Pangbourne when he knocked upon it in August 1968.
I thought I read somewhere that the Steven Tyler Girlfriend Incident actually took place much earlier (either October 1966 or March 1968), when Tyler's band was opening for The Yardbirds.
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There's a couple of Yardbird's 7" singles that are due for release on the Black Friday edition of Record Store Day on 11.25.11., "Ten Little Indians" and "Ha Ha Said the Clown".
It's too bad they picked the two worst Yardbirds singles.
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Now and Zen was certified Platinum 3 months after its release.
Fate of Nations was only certified Gold 7 months after its release.
Now and Zen went on to be certified 3x Platinum.
Fate of Nations has only been certified as Gold ( as well as Manic Nirvana)
Perhaps maybe over the years the two latter albums have caught up to Now and Zen, but have not been Audited, but since they haven't been audited we can't make a tell.
initially though it is clear that at their release times FON and MN did not do as well as NAZ.
My point is that FON did not "mark a decline" in Plant's career, since the decline had already been marked by Plant's previous release.
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Just sales
Oh. Because Fate Of Nations sold just as many copies -- if not more -- than the two albums that were released before and after Now And Zen.
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Funny how every one here says its their favorite, yet this album marked a decline in Plant's career. Now and Zen was the Multi-Platinum peak which led to a decline ending in FON which only went Gold.
A decline in what, exactly? Just sales?
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I can't imagine a picture of Wimpy on the walls of an upscale Washington establishment.
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That's a great interview. Coverdale comes across as very thoughtful and personable.
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The two "fans" are Maureen Plant and her sister Shirley.....right?
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As I understand it the Outrider material that was stolen was merely rough instrumental sketches, not completed songs as such. I do have one outtake, titled Judas Touch, that is complete with vocals but I don't believe it was among the material that was stolen, rather it seems it was deliberately left off of the album.
There have been 3 outtakes from Outrider that have surfaced: "Train Kept A-Rollin'" (with Chris Farlowe on vocals), "Muddy Waters Blues" (early version of "Prison Blues"), and "Judas Touch" (with John Miles on vocals).
"Judas Touch" is missing the guitar solo, and besides that it just doesn't sound like something Jimmy would have ever wanted for Outrider. I suspect that it was a John Miles solo demo that he offered to Jimmy.
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Speak of the devil!! The 7/16/84 Pistoia concert is the subject of today's front page on Jimmy's website.
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It's possible this radio broadcast is in fact the "very good audience recording" to which I referred. I don't have a recording of this performance and the Stones archivists I've contacted can't say for certain if there's any audience sources in circulation. I will attempt to confirm which station broadcast it and on what date.
Steve -- there were actually TWO Alexis Korner tribute shows (both of which featured Jimmy). The first one was 6/5/84 in Nottingham and it was aired on Radio Trent.
The second one was 7/16/84 in Pistoia, Italy. This is the show for which an audience recording is in circulation.
BTW, almost every website has the wrong setlist for the Nottingham show (track 7 is "My Country Man", track 8 is "Million Dollar Secret", and track 9 is "River's Invitation").
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June 5, 1984 (Tue) Palais Nottingham, England
Jimmy Page joined Ian Stewart's perennial ad-hoc jam band Rocket 88 for an Alexis Korner Tribute Concert. Korner had died earlier that year.
Rocket 88 lineup: Ian Stewart (piano), Charlie Watts (drums), Jack Bruce (bass), Jimmy Page (guitar), Paul Jones (harmonica & vocals), Ruby Turner (vocals), John Picard (trombone), Willie Garnett (sax), Dick Heckstall-Smith (sax), Don Weller (sax)
There is a very good audience recording in circulation and it is available online as a free download
A professional-grade recording was aired on a radio special in 1984.
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More undiscovered gems from Blocoboy!!
- they were signed by producer Shel Talmy's Planet Records a good FIVE MONTHS before signing with CBS. Obviously, the Shel Talmy session was never released (and probably never took place). If it had, then Robert almost certainly would have met Jimmy Page on this occasion!!
- after the deal with Talmy fell through, they supposedly signed with Decca. Again, nothing came of it. These guys got rejected more times than The Beatles!
- unreleased songs "Two By Two", "The Pakistani Rent Collector" (!!) and at least 4 others "in the can"
- another story about the stolen demo tape. "We can't remember how it went!" -- yeah right!
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No thanks, I'll pass this round.
Of course you will. That's your game. You make misleading (or flat-out false) claims, then run away when challenged to back them up. You pass off your own opinions as fact, then ignore any verified facts presented against your claims. Then you act indignant and resort to name calling when things don't go your way. It's textbook Internet Trolling 101.
You've been caught in at least a dozen lies or false claims, not that it slowed you down.
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The bulk of the posts here, including all of yours, have been attempts at denying that Page took anything at all
False. I challenge you to show exactly where I was "denying that Page took anything at all". Re-read the thread and point out my exact words.
Back up your claims with some evidence.
I can defend my reputation and my statements. You, on the other hand, seem to prefer to make exaggerated claims and then run away when challenged.
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The name-calling came from others first.
....but they didn't copyright it so it's okay for you to do it?
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Where did I mention that Page owed Jansch's estate a cent? I never did.
Yeah, sure. You only said that Page "would have to pay royalties" to Jansch. But those two things are totally different, right?
You know, most of the people in this thread are enjoying a civil conversation, even when they disagree on certain points. You, on the other hand.........well, it's kinda hard to be civil when you're using the word "prick", now is it? Ironic that you so quickly accuse others of name-calling.
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"It was Stan [Ellison] who designed the musical accompaniment, the one I recorded, which was nothing like Bert Jansch’s version."
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"And if [Led Zeppelin] wanted to pay anybody else, the money should go to Stan Ellison, not to me."
This is what I meant about Briggs' contradictory claims. First, she says that Ellison's guitar part is different from Jansch's version. But then she says that Ellison deserves royalties for Jansch's version of the song. That makes no sense. (Is she stating that Ellison deserves royalties for a melody that he had absolutely nothing to do with? Why?)
It's also interesting how she says "Bert Lloyd put the song together from fragments". But that can only be true if Lloyd taught the song to Isla Cameron! And while Lloyd and Cameron certainly worked together in the '50s, there's no evidence that proves he taught the song to her. We may never know the answer to that mystery.
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Like I said before, you couldn't get away with the things Page did in the 60's and 70's today. But the real point is that those laws were already in place in the 60's, so Page SHOULDN'T have been able to get away with the thefts he made.
Page didn't "get away with" anything. Anyone with a legitimate claim to a copyright could rectify the situation with one phone call. Some people chose to exercise their rights (ARC Music, Willie Dixon, Anne Bredon, etc.), other people chose not to (Jake Holmes). That's the beauty of the copyright concept. It's a fair and equitable system where judges and juries are the ultimate arbiters of originality. There is nowhere for a song thief to hide; if you steal something, then you WILL pay for it.
And then there are people like Bert Jansch and Randy California -- people who never had a legitimate claim of copyright in the first place. Instead of simply admitting that they have no case, they try to save face by making up wild, unsubstantiated claims about "running out of money" or being strong-armed by the Big Bad Zeppelin Machine.
What I find most ironic and hypocritical about the Page bashers is that they seem to think that the rules only apply to Jimmy: "Jimmy should have credited Bert Jansch!" (but Bert didn't owe Isla Cameron a dime...) "Jimmy should have known that Jansch's guitar part was original!" (but it's OK if Bert didn't know that Isla Cameron's melody was original...) "Jimmy shouldn't be allowed to say 'everyone was doing it'!" (but it's okay for Bert Jansch to steal someone's arrangement.....because, you know, everyone was doing it...)
And like I said before, the bottom line is that Jansch credited it as "Traditional". That made it perfectly appropriate, fair, and legal for Jimmy to credit the song to himself.
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Point out that even IF it's a traditional song, then you should credit it as Traditional. Not, "James Page". What's more is that in the case of Black Mountainside, it's even more appropriate to put "Traditional, arranged in the style of.... " or "a la", which is what Classical musicans and composers have done for years
Huh? Now you are claiming that rock musicians are supposed to credit their recordings just like classical music?!? Where on earth did you come up with that one?
Can you show me some examples of rock or pop musicians using that exact type of writing credit prior to 1969?
Robert Plant - Pre-Zep History
in Pre / Post-Zeppelin Forum
Posted
Bummer. Does that mean Bonham didn't play on the song??