porgie66
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Posts posted by porgie66
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On 6/3/2017 at 8:24 AM, reids said:
Yes indeed & it can for the mighty Zeppelin, too!!!
R?
The new Sgt Peppers 50th anniversary release is very nice.
There's no compelling reason why Zep couldn't do a through the years live compilation of stuff never before released. Multi tracks from RAH, Long Beach and LA 72, Southampton and MSG 73, Earl's Court, maybe Knebworth. Maybe there are other multi tracks that can be revisited and polished up. JP should get cracking, since he doesn't play, record or tour. Zep fans are starved for previously unheard live or studio material . When I first heard St Tristan's Sword I thought, fuck ...this is what we want more of!!! That would be an optimal way to commemorate their 50th anniversary IMO.
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On 6/9/2017 at 9:21 AM, Dallas Knebs said:
SAJ
you have anything on this please? Thank you.
I seem to recall reading that Bonzo saw a mini drum kit while on the road, in a store front ...maybe Toronto? He bought it for Jason. Though judging from the laundry hanging up, who knows where the hell that pic was taken!
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50 minutes ago, blindwillie127 said:
At the end of the day, you've either touched people with your music, or have impressed people with your virtuosity as a technician. Some people cross those boundaries and do both. Lets compare Jimmy Page to Yngwie Malmsteen....see what I'm saying? If Jimmy Page doesn't qualify as being a virtuoso thats just fine with me. He went way beyond that anyways.
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2 hours ago, blindwillie127 said:
Why is that only classical players are always cited when the term virtuoso is discussed? All the jazz greats such as Charlie Parker, Thelonious Monk, John Coltrane, Wes Montgomery, Charles Mingus, Charlie Christian, Miles Davis, Django Reinhardt, Les Paul, Danny Gatton....... are all virtuosos in their field.
Absolutely agree.
Virtuoso is one of those terms like "artist" or "genius" that seems to be open to very wide parameters of interpretation. I mean, is James Brown a virtuoso of soul?? I would say yes.
To me, a virtuoso is a musician who has the utmost degree of technical skill on their instrument. Whether or not that means they communicate feeling is another matter , although the greatest virtuosos are able to render the highest degree of human feeling and relate emotions along with technical mastery. Page certainly didn't possess the level of virtuosic ability technically as classical guitar masters, great Flamenco guitarists or jazz musicians like Coltrane or Wes Montgomery, George Benson, Charlie Parker , Art Tatum...the list goes on and on. But IMO, he communicates feeling just as much as any other great musical artist. Same with Jones , and to a greater extent Bonham, who IMO was a very highly skilled drummer technically, and was pretty much a virtuoso in terms of sound and groove /feel. IMO , Bonzo was the most virtuosic player in Zep , in his prime, before the drugs and alcohol started to slow him down at way too early an age. Page is kind of a virtuoso in terms of sound crafting, production etc but I can't call him a virtuoso guitarist. He was a bad motherfucker though!
The fact is, many musicians who possess virtuosic skill may have a dearth of emotion in their playing. Technical mastery is impressive but often is boring without soul/feeling whatever you wanna call it. To me Zep was a perfect chemical reaction, an alchemy of three great musicians (and one annoying but necessary singer) who were masters of their genre and they changed music in the respect they influenced a huge number of musicians after their arrival on the scene. Page's sloppy, but raw emotion filled solos made thousands of people want to play like him. Bonham's sound and feel made thousands ( millions?) want some of his magic dust. Jones I think is less of an over all influence on musicians but he also possessed not just great technical skill on bass and keys, he had soul ! I would never characterize Jones as vanilla!! ? His bass playing is as close as any rock player got to the sound and feel of Jamerson, always bluesy and soulful, funky, melodic. ( i.e. The Lemon Song) Not vanilla at all. He's no piano virtuoso though IMO...he is a solid, well skilled organist and pianist. But he's no Jimmy Smith or Herbie Hancock. Let's not get carried away.
Of course they changed music... starting with track one of the debut album. It was all there, the skill, the sound, the feel , the soul that would change the sound of rock forever. Bonzo's triplets on the bass drum that no one ever heard played that way before. The raw attitude of Communication Breakdown, the dark brooding vibe on Dazed and Confused...all influenced countless musicians. There are many other posts here that cite their contributions that changed music much more articulately than me. But thats my 1,000 lire.
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3 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:
I think I've found my new favorite version of SIBLY...Tokyo, Japan 9-23-71.
Recording is excellent, Robert is fantastic, Jimmy's solo is perfect, Bonham's drumming is phenomenal and Jones' organ is hypnotizing. Dramatic and powerful is an understatement for this performance.
I agree. Page's execution and feeling, Plants voice, Jones delivery of so much feeling with the B3. There are a couple minor gaffs on this version though , but all in all a really great one. The 77 tour versions are no match for this IMO.
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1 hour ago, blindwillie127 said:
Question: when did the term "gay" become a "homosexual slur"? I guess you could say it has to do with the context its used in, but in this case its a real stretch. Kinda like calling someone a racist for using the term 'black' instead of 'african american'. I understand how offensive names such as meat smoker, booty bandit, fudge packer, rump rooter (just made that up), pudding pusher, turd tickler, gerbil jouster, anus angler....are all obvious homosexual slurs...but "gay"?
Political correctness is a pet peeve of mine....sorry.
THIS THREAD MUST BE DERAILED
Yes, the thread got derailed...but there is an undercurrent of derisiveness to use gay as an identifier in this case. Why do we need to know his sexual orientation? Its not necessary info. If black were used... or short, or lesbian, or Jew , or white, or fat in place of gay in this case, it would still sound pejorative. It's irrelevant to the discussion.
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6 minutes ago, bcarter690 said:
Its odd that there are only two pictures from this show. Obviously, both photos above were taken by someone with access to the band. I would assume that photographer took more photos than the two we see here. I would also assume that fans brought their own cameras, of course.
Sam-Is it possible to simply ask Eddie Kramer if he was there to record the show?
I would think he would have just attended the gig. Over all these years there would have been some mention of him recording for that show.
It does seem odd that there are so few photographic documents. I mean it's not every day you play Carnegie Hall.
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4 hours ago, bcarter690 said:
You're right. This gig does deserve its own thread. Given its prestige its an anomaly with such little evidence. The only documents from this gig are two photos ( the one above being one) and I believe I've seen a poster. I'll look for the other photo and post it here when I find it.
There simply HAS to be something more somewhere...a fan's account, photos, and hopefully a recording of some type. Or at least Eddie Kramer's denial that it wasn't recorded.
Is the Chris Welch interview available in print form anywhere? Does he have audio notes from the interview?
I read Chris Welch's account in Keith Shadwick's book 1968-80 The Story Of A Band And Their Music
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Really tremendous, thanks for sharing these. This trip was likely the inspiration for the title....The Song Remains The Same.
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31 minutes ago, Dirty Work said:
I love to speculate but I think Eddie Kramer either said he wasn't there, or was somewhere else the same night. If memory serves me right. Not sure though. Carnegie Hall.
Doesn't mean that a soundboard that sounds as good as 4/27/69 doesn't exist though.
And regarding 8/28/71, if theres a soundboard from Orlando and Hampton, who's to say there isn't one from New Orleans.
Well, Chris Welch's account is that Kramer said to him " he's a masterful guitar player" during White Summer. Who knows.
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1 hour ago, LedElvis75 said:
Oct 25th, 1969 at the Boston Garden... Hoarded?? We've got a ton of great stuff from Boston... All the Tea Party shows. The great September 70 and 71 shows. And the 73 show. I'd be willing to bet the October 25th, 1969 show exists.
And the Carnegie Hall show has always intrigued me. I mean, the first rock show there in 5 years-at the prestigious Carnegie Hall-and you're NOT going to professionally record it? And if it is being hoarded that's a damn shame. The reviews of that show make it sound like that was one KILLER Zeppelin show.
Absolutely. This is one of those instances where I just think , WTF?? Eddie Kramer was obviously available if he attended the show. NY City!!! There were plenty of quality resources available to make a recording of such a historic gig for the band. ?
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1 hour ago, bcarter690 said:
Couldn't agree more. This show, of all shows, should have been recorded professionally.
I heard it was recorded by a fan and he only would trade it for a "Holy Grail" recording from another band.
If that's true then he's a selfish fan of all fans. I mean come on, after 40 years??
That show was supposed to feature a legendary Moby Dick. Chris Welch said he never saw him play with such speed and dexterity as that night. Eddie Kramer was supposed to be there as well. Maybe tapes were running?
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1 hour ago, ZepPhan-WR said:
100% Absolutely Not. WR is and always will be a FREE alternative to Bootlegs.
These Dumb ass Moonchild are now putting out shows I never did .. Copenhagen 79. Never did it. So buyer beware.
LOL...incredible.
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Charlotte 72 is excellent sounding as is the tape from 6/18 Seattle which is sadly incomplete. The above mentioned shows are all very good audience tapes as well. All of the Australian shows are very listenable except for Brisbane. To me , that's Zep firing on all cylinders. Baltimore is another killer show and a very good sounding tape. Oct 3 has a few sources , one of which is quite good. Oct 9 as well.
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On 10/23/2008 at 3:54 PM, Chicago said:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------quote from Evster:
Okay (stretches and prepares for the worst), yes, Jimmy swapped to KT88s, but his volume was just set a 4-7 depending on venue. Not speaker blowing territory when you look at his rig.
As for heroin, he (as far as I know) never shot with a needle. It was mostly coke with a little smack cut in. Clearly the set had gotten routine by '75. The magic was Bonham by then. He was the beating heart. The improv was gone for the most part. Tight but loose, yes, but the song didn't remain the same. People always want to blame it on the drugs. But it wasn't the drugs. At least not then. It was the road. The lifestyle across the board took its toll. It was just too big. By '77, the groupies weren't getting the services rockstar Page was delivering in '72. It was a diet of banana daiquiries and magazine interviews. Creem magazine painted the iconic picture. But it took Karac's death to plunge Jimmy into full-on self destruction. Yeah, Jimmy was doing some smack in '77, but that's not what broke him. It was the circus around him. It was off the rails (no pun intended), not the dope. That was present yes, but only took over when there was no Zeppelin, when he was sequestered in his home wondering if his band was over. Zeppelin was a band on autopilot in '77, not a band too fucked up to play. There was so much swirling around them. Like I said, it just got so big. It became more about the show than the performance, if you can follow my meaning. The exploration of the music took a back seat, and the spectacle took over. It wasn't the drugs. That happened later.
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Your insight into the band's plight at the time is spot on Evster. I think this pattern became truly ingrained following Robert's accident. Lethary, inertia ,depression and sloth all stem from lack of work combined with the various intakes that deplete. That doesn't lead to musical inspiration. It's a bad formula.
With all the admiration for the 77 tour shows on these boards, and the rose colored ears...this is the most cogent assessment of the 77 performances IMO.
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When Robert says..."St Peter, at the gates of heaven, I'm beggin ya baybeee!!!"
LOL...ridiculous
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23 minutes ago, Mithril46 said:
The last 8 or 9 posters, you have (in a good way) made me almost fall over laughing. Plant, yes the teeth, but many chicks
I know/knew thought he was hot. And he is described here a bit as some sort of smelly man/ape hybrid homeless derelict
wearing discarded shower curtains. Ha Ha Ha. And I'm gonna ask you to step outside if you mention Kenny G in
the same sentence as Coltrane or Parker. I am truly sickened by someone comparing aural wallpaper to sculpted art. Not.
I must go on this apparent flamethrower site for good laughs. Cheerio !!!!
Hahaha!
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2 hours ago, sam_webmaster said:
I have the original magazine somewhere.... They're taken in Hamburg. Not sure who the woman is.
Plant is able to contort his face the goofiest!
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43 minutes ago, Mook said:
Can anyone shed any light on what's happening here?
I imagine its pre- encore goofing about. Kinda looks like the Richfield Coliseum show. Destroyer.
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3 hours ago, IpMan said:
Ha, I can see it now:
Jazz Fan #1: Coltrane is god
Jazz Fan #2: Screw Coltrane, Parker pounds his ass...
JF#1: BLASPHEMY!!! I will KEEELLLLL YOU!!!!
Moderator: Screw both of you guys, Kenny G is the alpha & the omega...both of you tools are banned.
Hence, real jazz fans shouldn't be on a smooth jazz forum- period!!
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16 minutes ago, LedGirl said:
Sorry not sorry. Since when are there "rules" for being a proper fan? As much as I love the band I believe in keeping it real. I'm not anti-Robert. I respect him as a great rock singer and I respect his post-Zeppelin career. He's obviously matured with age. But he's not my favorite member of the band, for certain reasons. Sue me. No one "owns" Led Zeppelin fandom or defines what it's supposed to be. If you think he's the shit, then good for you. I'm a Jimmy person. And I'm hardly alone in my views.
Well, after all... this is the little things you don't like thread. Plant annoys me too, he always has... but he's also a distinctive ingredient in their success. I suppose there should be a "Little Things You LOVE About Zeppelin Thread" too. I have a habit of focusing on what's wrong sometimes too!
Here's another little thing I don't like....the fact they dropped Wanton Song from the 75 set early in the tour. I would love to hear a clear recording of that tune!! Damn it!
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12 hours ago, Crimson Avenger said:
I just listened to 3/17/75 OTHAFA... no 77-80 era stickiness at all, although he misses a note or two here and there. I'll concede the early part of that show isn't the best of 75. But that one is actually one of his more thoughtful solos, almost every phrase has a different idea in it, and I think I can hear something like Hots On For Nowhere in there around the 5 minute mark, for example. Hugely articulate; while some passages work better than others, there are no fuck ups in that one.
There are 'many, many' great shows, lol. How about Chicago 1/22/75? A very nice early 75 show, pretty clear and listenable AUD, and Jimmy plays great. Check NQ, CB etc. Control, fluency, vibrato, it's all there. Off topic but Plant's not shabby there either; his voice troubles only really start after this gig.
Page's phrasing has always been weird compared to other players, and I'd contend that peaks in 75, in terms of being sucessfully carried off. Where you hear sloppy and disjointed, I hear invention and a desire to be different and move on. His soloing gets longer as the tour goes on, but that's not an accident. Sounds like it's his 75 tone that you object to most. That's a fair point, it is a bit thinner than 73, on the boards at least. But it's not particularly different to pre 73 (that year spoils us tone-wise, I'd contend), and doesn't bother me personally anyway
Ho hum. The 'hard picking' point is interesting. I think you can argue that for 77, where he is pretty brutal, but not 75. Maybe it's the board tape sound again. Each to his own. We're never going to agree here, but it's all good! 20 years ago this kind of discussion wasn't possible, as almost nobody could hear this stuff then.
OK, you make some very good points. This mostly pertains to how I feel about his peak, playing-wise and I just can't agree with 1975 being his apex. I was just listening to Chasing the Dragon ( Dallas 3/4/75)... the old vinyl was the first Zep soundboard I bought back in 1983. Again, some really inspired playing by JP then some real clams, and certainly not peak form for me. Now if he had the fluency and chops of 1970-73 on there then maybe I would say thats the apex because of the creativity and evolution of some of his vocabulary which is evident on " many, many" 75 shows.
Also, I really enjoy the Chicago shows from 75. I like the different set with Levee, Wanton Song, and HMMT and I think Page is playing great despite the recent finger issue...he's more concise and fluent than on most later shows that tour - when that desire to explore often sounds rambling and disjointed (thats where we differ). Its all good because you know your shit, and you've obviously listened to a lot of live Zep and I respect your opinion, I just don't agree and that is civil. That's what makes this forum so great. We can discuss all these fine points about our favorite band.
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I hate when Robert says " feel it!!!" after ..." it isn't hard to feel me glowing" in 1975 versions of the Rain Song. Always make me go ...
Here's another little thing I don't like....the fact they dropped Wanton Song from the 75 set early in the tour. I would love to hear a clear recording of that tune!! Damn it!
Are there 2 or 3 songs that best exemplify and showcase the greatness of John Bonham?
in Led Zeppelin Master Forum
Posted
Damn, so many to choose from. The above are musts.
I would add...
Achilles Last Stand, in My Time Of Dying, Wanton Song