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MadScreamingGallery

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  1. MSG, I am envious of you. Not getting to see Little Feat in the Lowell George era is one of my few regrets. Great band. I'm a huge fan.

    As for Skynard, as MSG said ,pre crash, one of the best live acts I've seen.

    Thanks, Ally. The Lowell George era was, by far, my favorite Little Feat time. They were absolutely great live during that time period. For me, Lowell's passing changed the dynamic of the group. I've often thought that he was the soul of Little Feat.

    When I was younger, I used to wonder what it would have been like to have been around when Lowell George and Frank Zappa were hanging out together in Los Angeles during the era of "The Factory".

    And, yes, those pre-crash Skynyrd concerts were great. :)

  2. First part of the thread: My all-time favorite southern rock band (and one of my very favorite bands ever) is the Allman Brothers. I've already written about the Allmans in the Allmans thread. http://forums.ledzeppelin.com//index.php?s...ic=3209&hl=

    Next on my list of "southern" rock (southern is in quotes here because the band was from LA) is Little Feat. I saw them several times during the early '70's (some guys we knew in LA were talking about the band) and I still remember the buzz and excitement that surrounded the them. To this day, I still love to listen to Rock & Roll Doctor and remember dancing to that song at the Little Feat concerts:

    Second part of the thread: I love the early, pre-crash Lynyrd Skynyrd. Another band that I was fortunate to see live before the tragedy. Despite articles like the one below, my husband and I are both unapologetic about our decades-long love for "Freebird".

    March 17, 2005

    Rock's Oldest Joke:

    Yelling 'Freebird!'

    In a Crowded Theater

    It's a Request, a Rebuke,

    A Cry From the Heart,

    A Tribute to Skynyrd

    By JASON FRY

    THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE

    March 17, 2005

    One recent Tuesday night at New York's Bowery Ballroom, the Crimea had just finished its second song. The Welsh quintet's first song had gone over fairly well, the second less so, and singer/guitarist Davey MacManus looked out at the still-gathering crowd.

    Then, from somewhere in the darkness came the cry, "Freebird!"

    It made this night like so many other rock 'n' roll nights in America.

    "Freebird" isn't the Crimea's song; it's from the 1973 debut album by legendary Southern rockers Lynyrd Skynyrd. The band's nine-minute march from ruminative piano to wailing guitar couldn't be less like the Crimea's jagged punk-pop. But it was requested nonetheless.

    Somebody is always yelling out the title. "I don't know that I've ever seen a show where it hasn't happened," says Bill Davis of the veteran country-punk band Dash Rip Rock.

    "It's just the most astonishing phenomenon," says Mike Doughty, the former front man of the "deep slacker jazz" band Soul Coughing, adding that "these kids, they can't be listening to Lynyrd Skynyrd."

    Yelling "Freebird!" has been a rock cliché for years, guaranteed to elicit laughs from drunks and scorn from music fans who have long since tired of the joke. And it has spread beyond music, prompting the Chicago White Sox organist to add the song to her repertoire and inspiring a greeting card in which a drunk holding a lighter hollers "Freebird!" at wedding musicians.

    Bands mostly just ignore the taunt. But one common retort is: "I've got your 'free bird' right here." That's accompanied by a middle finger. It's a strategy Dash Rip Rock's former bassist Ned Hickel used. According to fans' accounts of shows, so have Jewel and Hot Tuna's Jack Casady. Jewel declines to comment. Mr. Casady says that's "usually not my response to those kind of things."

    Others have offered more than the bird. On a recent live album, Modest Mouse's Isaac Brock declares that "if this were the Make-a-Wish Foundation, and you were going to die in 20 minutes -- just long enough to play 'Freebird' -- we still wouldn't play it." Dash Rip Rock often plays "Stairway to Freebird," a mash-up of the Skynyrd epic and Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" that Mr. Davis boasts lasts "less than two minutes. ... You're finished before people get mad."

    A few years ago, Mr. Doughty started promoting the Weather Girls' "It's Raining Men" as the new "Freebird," asking audiences at his solo shows to call for the disco chestnut instead. Now, he says, he gets yells for both songs at every performance.

    A harsh reaction to "Freebird" came from the late comedian Bill Hicks during a Chicago gig in the early 1990s. On a bootleg recording of the show, Mr. Hicks at first just sounds irked. "Please stop yelling that," he says. "It's not funny, it's not clever -- it's stupid."

    The comic soon works himself into a rage, but the "Freebirds" keep coming. "Freebird," he finally says wearily, then intones: "And in the beginning there was the Word -- 'Freebird.' And 'Freebird' would be yelled throughout the centuries. 'Freebird,' the mantra of the moron."

    How did this strange ritual begin? "Freebird" is hardly obscure -- it's a radio staple consistently voted one of rock's greatest songs. One version -- and an important piece of the explanation -- anchors Skynyrd's 1976 live album "One More From the Road." On the record, singer Ronnie Van Zant, who was killed along with two other bandmates in a 1977 plane crash, asks the crowd, "What song is it you want to hear?" That unleashes a deafening call for "Freebird," and Skynyrd obliges with a 14-minute rendition.

    To understand the phenomenon, it also helps to be from Chicago. When asked why they continue to request "Freebird," Mr. Hicks's tormentors yell out "Kevin Matthews!"

    Kevin Matthews is a Chicago radio personality who has exhorted his fans -- the KevHeads -- to yell "Freebird" for years, and claims to have originated the tradition in the late 1980s, when he says he hit upon it as a way to torment Florence Henderson of "Brady Bunch" fame, who was giving a concert. He figured somebody should yell something at her "to break up the monotony." The longtime Skynyrd fan settled on "Freebird," saying the epic song "just popped into my head."

    Mr. Matthews says the call was heeded, inspiring him to go down the listings of coming area shows, looking for entertainers who deserved a "Freebird" and encouraging the KevHeads to make it happen.

    But he bemoans the decline of "Freebird" etiquette. "It was never meant to be yelled at a cool concert -- it was meant to be yelled at someone really lame," he says. "If you're going to yell 'Freebird,' yell 'Freebird' at a Jim Nabors concert."

    Still, Mr. Matthews treasures his trove of recorded "Freebird" moments -- such as baffled comedian Elayne Boosler wondering why the audience is shouting "reverb." And he argues that good bands simply acknowledge it and move on. "The people who are conceited, the so-called artists who get really offended by it, they deserve it," he says.

    But did "Freebird" truly start with the KevHeads? Longtime Chicago Tribune music writer Greg Kot says he remembers the cry from the early 1980s. He suggests it originated as an in-joke among indie-rock fans "having their sneer at mainstream classic rock."

    Other music veterans think it dates back to 1970s audiences' shouts for it and other guitar sagas, such as "Whipping Post," by the Allman Brothers Band, and "Smoke on the Water," by Deep Purple.

    They may all be right: It's possible "Freebird" began as a rallying cry for Skynyrd Nation and a sincere request from guitar lovers, was made famous by the live cut, taken up by ironic clubgoers, given new life by Mr. Matthews, and eventually lost all meaning and became something people holler when there's a band onstage.

    But as with many mysteries, the true origin may be unknowable -- cold comfort for bands still to be confronted with the inevitable cry from the darkness. For them, here's a strategy tried by a brave few: Call the audience's bluff. Phish liked to sing it a cappella. The Dandy Warhols play a slowed-down take singer Courtney Taylor-Taylor describes as sung "like T. Rex would if he were on a lot of pills." And Dash Rip Rock has performed the real song in order to surprise fans expecting the parody. For his part, Mr. Doughty suggests that musicians make a pact: Whenever anyone calls for "Freebird," play it in its entirety -- and if someone calls for it again, play it again.

    "That would put a stop to 'Freebird,' I think," he says. "It would be a bad couple of years, but it might be worth it."

    So what do the members of Skynyrd think of the tradition? Johnny Van Zant, Ronnie's brother and the band's singer since 1987, says "it's not an insult at all -- I think it's kind of cool. It's fun, and people are doing it in a fun way. That's what music's supposed to be about."

    Besides, Mr. Van Zant has a confession: His wife persuaded him to see Cher in Jacksonville a couple of years ago, and he couldn't resist yelling "Freebird!" himself. "My wife is going, 'Stop! Stop!' " he recalls, laughing. "I embarrassed the hell out of her."

    Write to Jason Fry at jason.fry@wsj.com17

    URL for this article:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB111102511477881964.html

    Hyperlinks in this Article:

    (1) http://www.real.com/

    (2) http://play.rbn.com/? dowjones/wsj/demand/wsj_vid/050315_ls_freebird.rm

    (3) http://play.rbn.com/? dowjones/wsj/demand/wsj_vid/050315_md_freebird.rm

    (4) http://play.rbn.com/? dowjones/wsj/demand/wsj_vid/050315_sp_freebird.rm

    (5) http://play.rbn.com/? dowjones/wsj/demand/wsj_vid/050315_bh_freebird.rm

    (6) http://www.lynyrdskynyrd.com/

    (7) http://www.thecrimea.net

    (8) http://www.dashriprock.net/pages/1/index.htm

    (9) http://www.superspecialquestions.com/

    (10) http://www.jeweljk.com/

    (11) http://www.hottuna.com/

    (12) http://www.modestmousemusic.com/

    (13) http://www.billhicks.com/

    (14) http://www.kevhead.com/

    (15) http://www.phish.com/

    (16) http://www.dandywarhols.com/

    (17) mailto:jason.fry@wsj.com

    Copyright 2008 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved

  3. What I also want to add is that Jimmy called Ahmet a "coconspirator" in a recent interview (about the O2 show). It's funny that he uses that word, because many believed that the world of Rock n Roll was ruled by conspiracies and secret societies. Also Crowley's O.T.O was seen as a conspiracy. Why did Page use thát word to tell us more about Ahmet's contribution to Led Zeppelin.

    Also one thing more about Page's symbol being represented on stage.

    I thought he lost faith in his symbol, it wasn't there on the Atlantic show, it wasn't there on the Live Aid one, also not represented in the Page/Plant tour, not with the Black Crowes, ... .

    And then there it was, as the only symbol, as if it never was any different.

    When Jimmy called Ahmet a "coconspirator", I didnt' think that he was referring to anything that had to do with a conspiracy, secret society or OTO. My interpretation of the quote was based on the fact that, when LZ, the Stones, and other rockers were touring and Ahmet Ertegun accompanied them, he would be around every matter of "strange and unusual" activities. Ertegun appeared matter-of-fact and nonjudgmental. When he was discussing and focused on business-related matters (sometimes right in the middle of the antics), he was (seemingly) detached from what was going on around him. No doubt another reason why the rockers loved him. At last year's Ertegun tribute at Jazz at Lincoln Center, Mick Jagger referred to him as a "wicked uncle". So, when I saw that quote, my first thought was that it pertained to what transpired during the tours and Ertegun's acceptance of the rockers' lifestyle. Ertegun saw many things that he could have reported on or written about in a sensationalized "tell-all" book but he was discreet and chose to keep what he saw confidential. I can understand why so many rockers had great respect for him. JMO. :)

  4. It must've been a PM. B)

    During the song, 'Starless', I think the last song before the encore, provided an intense sensory moment for the band and they repsonded in kind.

    "This was the first gig since the 1969 Crimson where the bottom of my spine registered "out of this world" to the same degree. The 1969 outfit began at the top and then disappeared. This team took two years to get to the same point of being-out-there-ness. As the sun went down and we moved into the ominous bass riff emerging from the "Starless" vocal, red stage lights faded up from behind the band. For me, a stunning theatrical moment highlighting the tension within the piece and the group: a moment of resonance". - Robert Fripp

    So if indeed your husband was at this, he was a lucky fellow indeed. :)

    Here's another link to the many releases of King Crimson.

    http://www.elephant-talk.com/discog/fripp/indexk.html

    Thanks, Wesley! That's a great quote. The website looks fantastic. :)

    My husband and I were both very fortunate to have been able to attend the concerts that we did back in the 70's. Neither of us would trade growing up in that era and having those musical experiences for anything. It sounds as if you've been lucky too. :D

  5. Thank you, glad you found it interesting. Maybe this is the show your husband attended. :D

    From July 1, 1974

    KC-LiCP.jpg

    Nick C., that's an excellent cd you posted about, and certainly zosodude13 ought to get that eventually, but to jump right to their latest studio release would bypass that whole period from 1972 till 2003! Then again, he could get that and backtrack.

    I thought I posted a response to this. Thanks again, Wesley. The pic you posted might jog my husband's memory a bit as to which show he attended. B)

  6. Lizard and Islands are unique in the King Crimson fold in that they were what I'd call "floaters". In the Court and Poseidon had similar lineups and sound within that canon. Lark's Tongues, Starless and Red were also similar, somewhat, as they had a basic core personel cohesiveness.

    Lizard seemed more a a Robert Fripp solo album to me having a few different vocalists, Jon Anderson of Yes included, and this band never toured. Gordon Haskell on bass and vocals, Andy McCollugh on drums, Keith Tippit on keyboards, Mel Collins on sax. There were also other added horn players.

    The album was definately more progressive jazzy than rocky. The album cover's artwork reflected the names of the songs if you look closely, especially the little drawings. The Beatles are drawn in a scene, as depicted by the song "Happy Family", and even Yoko is there looking like a genie coming out of a vase. On the upper right of this photo montage, you can see the Beatles and Yoko. Sorry about the resolution, squint hard.

    Islands was a whole new batch of musicians including Boz Burrel on bass and vocals (later went on to Bad Co.), Ian Wallace on drums, and returning from Lizard, Mel Collins and Keith Tippit. Another more jazzy album, not so crunchy, and some orchestrations too of strings and reeds. This band's core toured quite extensively from late 1971 thru mid 1972 and put out many releases through the King Crimson Collector's Club series.

    After this incarnation broke up, Fripp assembled his heaviest combo in Wetton, Bruford, Cross and Muir as bonzomaniac posted. This was a forceful unit blasting away in concert (from late 1972 through summer of 1974), HEAVY riffs and the improvisation of jazz in their intense rock. Many of these live shows are also released through the Collector's Club "bootleg" releases and legitimate offerings.

    A HUGE change from the previous Islands touring band.

    Wesley, thanks for your excellent analyses of King Crimson. Very interesting reading! I've shared them with my husband as he is a much greater fan of King Crimson and Fripp than I am. "In the Court of the Crimson King" is one of our favorite albums. My husband saw King Crimson live, in Central Park, in the early '70's and still says that particular concert was one of the most innovative concerts he has attended.

  7. I'd imagine that they had a fun. I mean she and Jim Morrison hated each other but from what I hear they more than got along. So it isn't like she wouldn't talk to anyone.

    In that interview with Dick Cavett, she seems so easygoing. He was so nice to her too! It looks like they had a good rapport with one another. It was just so cute to see that. I love how she described the limo and how she rode up front!

  8. Well it seems that my newbie-ness to Janis has brought some rises out of people. I have some Janis screencaps if anyone wants them.

    102.jpg

    103.jpg

    I don't think she was nsaty. She was just outgoing, you could say. I can't say she didn't do drugs. I did hear that she had been clean for quite some time before her death though.

    lzfan715, based on her outfit, your screen caps look like they came from Janis' last interview with Dick Cavett. I don't see "nasty" at all in her. There is still something very appealing and almost sweet about Janis here:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=18bQ3HSxB2Q

  9. I think we did. I saw them in Raleigh at the now defunct Hideaway BBQ last year but they were also doing their regular Tuesday night gig in Austin when I was there last spring but catching his show just wasn't in the cards.

    I may have also mentioned this before but Ian has guested on at least one Patty Hurst Shifter record. Without looking at liner notes I'm not completely sure but I think he sat in on Sadder Side from their newest record:

    http://www.myspace.com/pattyhurstshifter

    We've seen them in Austin. Thanks for the Patty Hurst Shifter link. :)

  10. I don't have any news on the Keith Moon doc but will say if you ever have a chance to see Ian and the Bump Band, by all means do so.

    I completely agree! They are great! I think that we talked about this once before here. Ian and the Bump Band still play at the Lucky Lounge in Austin.

  11. What happened to her??

    She was killed in a car accident, on a rural road, not far from their ranch. I will try to find the newspaper article and post it. It was really a tragedy. So sad.

    Edited to add from the Austin American Statesman:

    Kim McLagan dead at 57

    Wife of musician Ian McLagan killed in two-vehicle collision on FM 969

    By Michael Corcoran

    AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

    Monday, August 07, 2006

    A traffic collision Wednesday claimed the life of Kim McLagan, 57, a top British fashion model of the 1960s, a Bastrop-area salon owner and wife of former Faces keyboardist Ian McLagan.

    The couple have lived in Manor since 1994.

    The two-vehicle crash occurred at 9:50 a.m. at Taylor Lane and FM 969 in eastern Travis County. Texas Department of Public Safety officials said McLagan died at the scene.

    Officials said McLagan was driving a 2004 Chrysler PT Cruiser south on Taylor when she apparently ran a stop sign at the intersection. She was hit by a 2000 Freightline dump truck that was heading west.

    As a teenager, Kim Kerrigan was the toast of swinging London, marrying the Who drummer Keith Moon in 1966 and appearing the next year in the worldwide satellite debut of the Beatles' "All You Need Is Love" video. She was divorced from Moon in 1975; he died three years later of an accidental drug overdose.

    In 1978, she married Ian McLagan in England. Despite her life there amid fashion and rock stars, Kim McLagan seemed just as suited to the peaceful, rural life outside Manor, where the McLagans lived on 15 acres.

    She owned K.M. Skincare on Texas 71 in the Alum Creek community between Bastrop and Smithville. She was a licensed aesthetician and worked for several years at Lake Austin Spa.

    McLagan was not one to dwell on her past, friends say.

    "I had no idea she used to be a model," said Dick Simcoe, owner of Little Thailand restaurant in Garfield, where the McLagans would eat most Friday nights. "She was so beautiful, inside and out. Her and Mac were very much in love."

    Growing up as Patsy Kerrigan on her father's rubber plantation in Malaysia, the doe-eyed beauty changed her name to Kim after her family moved back to London and she began modeling. "Patsy" was too close to Pattie Boyd, another model whom she resembled, and so she became Kim to avoid confusion.

    She's survived by a daughter, Mandy Moon, the product of her stormy marriage to the Who drummer. The McLagans, who were married for 28 years, had no children together.

    After years in Los Angeles, the couple moved to Manor after the California city's 1994 earthquake.

    Ian McLagan soon established himself as a fixture on the Austin music scene, in recent years playing a popular early show with his Bump Band every Thursday at Lucky Lounge in Austin.

    "Kim just loved it out here," Simcoe said. "She told me she'd never move back to England."

    Ellen Moore of the Bastrop Advertiser frequently wrote about the couple in her local scene column.

    "There was no one on this earth who didn't think that she was an angel. She was very family-minded, a wonderful, loyal friend," Moore said.

    "She was always interested in learning: herbs, whatever, always reading something. She would help people with aches and pains. It was all about keeping them healthy."

    mcorcoran@statesman.com; 445-3652

    Additional material by staff writer Tony Plohetski.

    Find this article at:

    http://www.austin360.com/music/content/mus...kimmclagan.html

  12. Anyone know what's the state of play regarding the Keith Moon film starring Mike Myers?

    I haven't heard anything about this in a year or so. The last I heard about the film was that it was due out in '09 and the working title was: See Me Feel Me: Keith Moon Naked for Your Pleasure. I am conflicted about whether I will go to see it. One of Keith's ex-wives lived not far from here, until she was killed. I am not sure if she had any input into the film and whether her untimely death affected production. I had met and spoken to her but I never dared mention the name "Keith Moon." She was so nice and seemed very happily married to her current husband, Ian McLagan. Sorry I can't offer any more recent news about the film.

  13. "How Many Friends" is an absolutely touching and brilliant piece that is never heard outside the hardcore Who community. Listen to it if you have the Who By Numbers.

    It is brilliant and touching - and powerful - especially for anyone who has ever been betrayed by someone who he/she considered a friend:

    I'm feelin' so good right now

    There's a handsome boy tells me how I changed his past

    He buys me a brandy

    But could it be he's really just after my ass?

    He likes the clothes I wear

    He says he likes a man who's dressed in season

    But no one else ever stares, he's being so kind

    What's the reason?

    How many friends have I really got?

    You can count them on one hand.

    How many friends have I really got?

    How many friends have I really got?

    That love me, that want me, that'll take me as I am?

    Suddenly it's the silver screen

    And a face so beautiful that I have to cry out

    Everybody hears me

    But I look like a fool now

    With a cry and I shy out

    She knows all of my friends

    But it's nice to find a woman who can stay home late

    Now I think I've reached the end

    I wonder in the dead of night - how do I rate?

    How many friends have I really got?

    How many friends have I really got?

    How many friends have I really got?

    That love me, that want me, that'll take me as I am?

    BRIDGE

    It's all like a dream you know

    When you're still up early in the morning

    And you all sit together to watch the sun come through

    But things don't look so good

    When you could use a bit of warning

    Then you know that no one will ever speak the truth about you

    How many friends have I really got?

    How many friends have I really got?

    How many friends have I really got?

    That love me, that want me, that'll take me as I am?

    When I first signed a contract

    It was more than a handshake then

    I know it still is

    But there's a plain fact

    We talk so much shit behind each other's backs

    I get the willies

    People know nothing about their own soft gut

    So how come they can sum us up

    Without suffering all the hype we've known

    How come they bum us up

    How many friends have I really got?

    Well, you can count 'em on the one hand

    How many friends have I really got?

    How many friends have I really got?

    That love me, that want me, that'll take me as I am?

  14. Another retread:

    I've attended almost as many Who concerts as I have Zep concerts. The difference being that, as with the Stones' concerts, The Who concerts have been spread out over 30+ years while the Zep concerts were all in the span of 3 1/2 years. I was really fortunate to have experienced the Keith Moon years.

    Unfortunately, the last Who concerts for which we had tickets was canceled (last year) because of Roger Daltrey's illness. Roger Daltrey: he usually comes up #2, behind Robert Plant, on my list of favorite rock vocalists.

    My favorite Who song is Baba O'Riley (a.k.a. "Teenage Wasteland"). I know it has been overplayed but it's hard to match the feeling of being in a packed stadium with thousands of Who fans singing out the lyrics at certain times. Following very closely behind, in my list of Who favorites would be "Won't Get Fooled Again" (again, something to experience live). After that, probably "My Generation". Live Who and the vibe at their concerts is fantastic.

    Because of The Who, the first time that my husband and I went to London together, we took a train to Brighton so we could visit places from Quadrophenia (including the alley off East Street :ph34r: ).

    My husband and I clearly remember The Who concert tragedy in Cincinnati when eleven fans were killed. It was horrific. Some of the fans who died were close to us in age. One young couple died together. They could have been us. I believe it was that Who concert tragedy which led to changes in the way in which crowds are controlled at concerts in the U.S.

  15. The Who ROCKS!!!

    [i prefer Zep by a nose]

    Best album is Who's Next,same year as Zep's best,IV.

    I agree with you about Who's Next. I think it is the band's best studio album. Not only did LZ IV come out at the end of '71 here are some other greats from that year (and I know I'm leaving many out):

    Sticky Fingers

    LA Woman

    Aqualung

    Pearl

    Imagine

    The Yes Album

  16. Yes. MSG, I really do remember seeing Zep for the first time in August of 1970. Very Hippe feel to it all. The boys had just spent time communing together recording LZ III. It was a very Groovy Concert ! Mt first time getting high, albeit, second hand smoke.... a LOT of second hand smoke...

    That was special time. I remember seeing this chick, down in the floor seating, about 20 rows back....she stood out becuase she had a bid head of blonde hair, and she stood --on the seat of her chair-- rocking and moving and grooving through most of whole concert. I know that the boys must gotten energy for her as well :hippy:

    Sad to say, I never got to see Janis in person. But there's always the Monterey Pop Festival footage. B):D

    Great story Rover! :hippy:

    I never saw Janis live either. She died about a year before I started attending concerts.

    Quite rare....thanx for that! :)

    You're welcome! :)

    And thanks for the picture, I haven seen it before.

    No problem, lzfan715. Thank you for the Newsweek scans! The pic I posted might have come from that issue of Newsweek. I don't know, though. :)

  17. These links really bring the event alive. Sprinkle in a little snow (er. from the sky) and voila we are right there in between Andy Warhol Jimmy Page and W.S. Burroughs.

    Here's a little more information that may bring it a bit more alive: I don't remember that there was any snow on the ground or from the sky that night (I don't ever remember seeing a Zep concert in the snow). I cannot say whether there was snow elsewhere, though. At night, the city would have been lit up. Fans, who had just left the Garden, would still be in the streets below (perhaps visible in the lights). Warhol, Page, and Burroughs. Legends.

  18. Would you say the Penn Plaza Club is within the confines (or directly affiliated in any

    way with) Madison Square Garden or is it an entirely separate venue?

    It's all part of the same complex. I am not sure if they were/are affiliated as far as management. The Penn Plazas (1 and 2) are above Penn Station. They're all connected so you can go from one to the other without having to travel outside the complex. I can't picture them walking it so I imagine that the Zep guys' limos left the underground area of the Garden and then went into the underground area of Penn Plaza where they would have taken an elevator up to the club.

    Edited to add: Steve here is a photo of 1 Penn Plaza with MSG in the front. http://wirednewyork.com/images/penn.jpg

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