Balthazor
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Everything posted by Balthazor
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Oh that just made my night! It's been a busy, miserable night but that put a big smile on my face.
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I would agree. There would have to be some basis for appeal beyond what Malofiy is whining about. If the sheet music was all that was filed for the Taurus copyright then that should be all that can legally be used. I can't imagine any judge allowing an appeal to go forward based only on that. Bear in mind that just because Malofiy said on some talk show that they were going to appeal doesn't necessarily make it true. The guy is clearly a loose cannon, and could just be mouthing off to keep his name in the news. Until there's some kind of official confirmation I'd take anything he says with a planet-sized grain of salt.
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Just wanted to nitpick, but the example you're describing is "double-jeopardy" and can't happen in a criminal trial.
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Indeed, whereas the Randy California Project got the recognition of...well...probably less than a dozen people in the entire world up until this trial occurred.
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Maybe, but then why would he even let the case go to trial in the first place? Another possibility is that the judge was aware of the antics of the plaintiff's lawyer and tried to allow him very little latitude to engage in those antics. After all, if he didn't know what kind of clownish buffoon of a lawyer he was dealing with before this case, he must have when he got the legal filings printed out in the Led Zeppelin font.
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That may be, but I was talking more about the charities than Pages personal finances. Wolfe's sisters are out there crying as if losing this lawsuit is going to deny their great and wonderful charity all this money with which to help so many children. It came off to me like they were saying "these evil greedy rich rock stars are hurting the children!" I was just pointing out that Page has been involved with a children's charity which kinda makes the Randy California Project pale by comparison. Or, in short, that Randy's gorgon sisters can go stuff it.
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LOL. But seriously, helping a few hundred children learn and appreciate music is a worthy cause. But then again, there's always this: http://www.abctrust.org.uk/ Seems to me if you care about the children, then a lot more real good would be done by keeping money in Jimmy's hands than transferring it to the Randy California Project. Just sayin'.
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I've seen (and corrected) lots of comments to the numerous stories posted online about the trial which say the same thing, that Zeppelin toured with Spirit. It'd be like saying that because Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and The Who all played Woodstock that they toured together. It's as silly as all these stories that seem to be saying Aha! That whole Stairway was composed at Bron-Yr-Aur thing is a big fat lie! I chalk it up to the fact that there is so much mythology which surrounds this band that the average person can't really separate the myth from the reality. As to the question of "access", I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure it means the latter, that it was possible within reason that they'd heard Taurus before writing Stairway. There's no way to prove whether or not they actually did. So for example, if Page owned no Spirit records, if Taurus was never known to be played on British radio, and if Zeppelin and Spirit had never crossed paths in any way, then one could say that Page didn't have access to Taurus. But the fact that Page did own Spirit records, did share a stage with them at a few shows, etc. does pretty much lead a reasonable person to conclude that he did have access. Still doesn't prove that he'd ever heard the song prior to writing Stairway, but he definitely could have. I think the fact that the jury did find that they had access to the song but still sided with them is good as far as any possible appeal goes. Again, not a lawyer here, but if this jury decided Page & Co. didn't have access to Taurus, an appeals judge could look at that verdict compared to the facts of the case and think gee, this jury was nuts, which I think could make it more likely the judge would allow the appeal to move forward. But the fact that the jury did find that Page & Co. had access to the song but still sided with Zeppelin on the basis of a lack of substantial familiarity, it looks like the jury did their jobs correctly in that respect. and I think closes the door to certain avenues of appeal.
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Just my two cents on the whole access thing and whether or not Jimmy was fibbing on the stand. While there's no way of knowing one way or the other, I can totally believe Page's assertion. I'll use myself as an example. I have every Megadeth CD. Some I've listened to a thousand times and have virtually memorized every note on the album. Others I've listened to once or twice, and I have really no clue what songs are evrn on them. I've seen them play I think four times, but have no recollection of exactly what songs they played. Now, if I sat down and wrote a song that happened to sound exactly like a song on one of those CDs or that they played at one of those concerts, people could look at the situation and say hey, he's got all their albums, he's seen them play live, he's a big fan, so he's clearly ripped off the song. But that wouldn't be the case at all. In light of that, I can totally buy what Page is saying. Especially given that he's got like 100 times as many albums as I do. It seems totally feasible that he could be a big fan of Spirit and own the album with Taurus on it, but have no recollection of the song whatsoever. Because someone could play me a song off some Megadeh CD like Supercollider or Thirteen, both of which are sitting on my shelf, and I'd say nope, never heard that song in my life. And it's not as if Taurus is the most gripping and memorable song in the first place.
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Thanks, but now I regret asking for it. That was seven minutes of my life wasted that I'll never get back.
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Do you have a link to that press conference? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
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Succubi, there's a word that isn't used nearly enough. Especially given the vast number of people it could apply to.
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No kidding. Like Skidmore and the Wolfe estate is really going to appeal. Even if they did appeal, I doubt they'd hire him as their lawyer again. They'd be total idiots if they did. The best is this line from Skidmore: Speaking outside court, Mr Skidmore said: "Money has triumphed over common sense." Seriously? He's got that exactly backwards. Common sense triumphed over money.
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I think talk of a counter suit, which admittedly I myself engaged in much earlier in this thread, is likely just people venting their frustration at Skidmore and Malofiy for dragging Zeppelin, and all their fans, through this ridiculous trial, and in the process further advancing this notion of Zeppelin as musical thieves. So yeah, on a purely emotional level, I'd love to see Zep counter sue and, legally-speaking, crush Skidmore under their boot. But a more reality-based perspective says just enjoy the victory and move on.
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Yay!!!!!!!!!!!! And thatBron-Yr-Aur nonsense is crap anyhow. Numerous quotes and interviews have made it clear that the song was assembled at Headly Grange. It was all just idiot "journalists" who assumed myth=band testimony or some such thing.
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Gotta love today's lazy "journalists": Singer Jimmy Page and guitarist Robert Plant have been defending themselves in a copyright lawsuit over their iconic song, “Stairway to Heaven.” http://www.scpr.org/programs/the-frame/2016/06/22/49933/led-zeppelin-case-goes-to-jury-as-the-music-indust/
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Excellent little article from Salon, which may be the first time I agreed 100% with anything I've seen on Salon. http://www.salon.com/2016/06/22/free_led_zeppelin_this_is_about_music_its_not_about_sound/
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Oh I see what you're saying, I was reading it exactly backwards, that proximity and similarity were already "proven" and the decision left hinges on access. But you're saying the exact opposite. Reading comprehension fail.
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I disagree. While I'm not sure exactly what is meant by proximity, I don't think similarity has been proven, aside from proving that it's similar to a common musical sequence which can't be copyrighted. Whether or not they heard Taurus, whether or not they got the idea from Taurus, shouldn't be as important as whether or not that bit of music can even be copyrighted in the first place.
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http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/led-zeppelin-stairway-trial-goes-to-jury-as-both-sides-plead-case-20160622?page=2 Well, this is the first I've read this: Anderson had some setbacks early on, though. He repeated his assertion that Hollenbeck Music (a publishing concern owned by legendary music producer and impresario Lou Adler) actually owned the "Taurus" copyright; that argument was rendered null, however, when Judge Klausner affirmed, in his instructions to the jury, that the trustees of Randy Wolfe's estate indeed own the "Taurus" copyright.
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Either could be good or bad. The jury could say "this case is BS, Zeppelin didn't steal anything" just as quickly as they could say "it's clearly stolen!" But if there's still no verdict by the weekend, then I'll start to sweat. If they do lose this, then I think they have a HUGE opening for appeal if it's true that the plaintiff never provided evidence that they even own the copyright.
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That turned out to be not even worth turning the TV on for. I'd say it was a waste of time, but given that the story was all of 30 seconds it wouldn't be much of a complaint.
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So I'm guessing there's not a lot of songs on that CD.
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While I personally enjoy it, I wish Zeppelin's lawyer wouldn't make comments like these. I'd prefer him to remain professional so that Malofiy looks like the only jerk in the courtroom.
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LOL, yes she most definitely SHOULD! I'd pay to see that!
