Balthazor
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It would be nice if the closing instructions were "don't waste your time deliberating on this joke of a trial. Go home."
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It seems that in the Blurred Lines case, the jurors began deliberating Thursday afternoon on March 5th and the verdict was delivered Tuesday March 10th. Hopefully this one will be such a slam dunk for Zeppelin that it won't take that long. Next maybe we'll see Skidmore and Andes sue Rush for "Spirit of Radio"
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Another article, from Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/legalentertainment/2016/06/21/update-on-led-zeppelin-trial-will-case-be-thrown-out/#6fe7fc066807 This one brings up the point that perhaps the judge allowed the trial to continue because a jury verdict would stand up to appeal better than a dismissal, and if the jury rules stupidly he can always vacate the ruling on the basis of the missing copyright evidence or whatever else.
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That is a good question, although it is a slightly different circumstance given that one is an obscure little song and the other the biggest song of all time. Personally, I think that I may have noticed the similarity but I also wouldn't have cared. There was so much that came out post-Zeppelin that sounded like and was obviously inspired by Zeppelin, and so many songs post-Stairway that likewise sounded like and were obviously influenced by Stairway, that I think Taurus would've been just lost in the crowd. I think I would have thought gee, that guitar part sounds kinda similar, but it's a totally different song, so who cares.
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In a way, it would be better if the judge did not dismiss it, provided the jury rules in favor of Zeppelin. If the judge dismissed it, then theoretically whoever does own the copyright could get their paperwork in order and file a new lawsuit, whereas if the jury issues a ruling then it's a done deal forever. Plus, and I admit this doesn't much matter, if the judge dismissed it then people are still going to say they stole it but "got off on a technicality", but if a jury says no they didn't steal it, it just has more of an "officialness" to it, if you know what I mean. But then again, even then, people will just say the jury got it wrong. As they say, haters will hate.
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I'm no lawyer, but I think these kind of requests are pretty common. Defense lawyers are going to take every shot they can to get their client off. In this case they may actually have a valid claim, but I'd guess even O.J.'s lawyers requested a dismissal due to lack of evidence.
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That's very interesting, thanks for finding that. It'll be interesting to see what happens. I'd love for the judge to toss it out.
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Just to clarify, are you saying that Spirit's drummer testified that Taurus wasn't ever played live? If that is the case, then it's odd that it was never reported in any of these stories because that would be a big revelation. And that's awesome about meeting Plant in the bathroom. That's a story I'd tell to everyone I know or ever meet. Hey, did I ever tell you about the time I pissed with Robert Plant? Great stuff.
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Here's another good story which discusses the wider implications of the case and it's impact on the music business http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/18/if-led-zeppelin-goes-down-we-all-burn.html
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I agree. It's of course hard to know without actually being there, but everything I've read makes it sound as though at this point it's looking pretty good for Zeppelin, and they only just started with their defense. Plus it sounds like Page came off mostly as sympathetic and likable, which is a big help. It's also worth nothing that when I read the comments posted to any of these stories, at least what I'm seeing is that the overwhelming majority of them seem to think that the lawsuit is frivolous and that Zeppelin should win. It may not be the most accurate gauge of public opinion since there's probably a relatively high proportion of Zeppelin fans who are reading and commenting on these stories, but still, if most of the Average Joes reading Yahoo News sides with the band, it would seem to increase the likelihood that the Average Joes sitting on the jury would also side with the band.
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Another good article from Rolling Stone: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/led-zeppelin-stairway-trial-gets-ugly-as-plaintiffs-rest-their-case-20160618 Here's an interesting tidbit: With several defense witnesses remaining on the docket - including, potentially, Page's co-defendant, Zeppelin frontman Robert Plant - Judge Klausner made an unusual exception: Malofiy would be allowed to cross-examine all of Led Zeppelin's witnesses for just 10 minutes each. Sounds like Klausner is really putting the shackles on Malofiy there, maybe because he's tired of Malofiy's nonsense, or maybe because he's seeing that the case is bogus and just wants it over with. Whatever the reason, it's good news for Zeppelin.
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It's awesome to hear from Jones. I'm still expecting to see a story which writes, "Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, and...um...that guy who played bass...entered the courtroom today..."
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...and while searching for news on the trial, I came across this, which may be the most idiotic story to ever grace the internet. http://mashable.com/2016/06/16/led-zeppelin-stairway-heaven-trial-bron-yr-aur/#2SiWlLZ9j8q3
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Screw him. I hate to speak ill of a dead guy, but it would be like claiming credit for Michelangelo's "David" because you're the guy who delivered the marble. In so many of the stories I've read about the trial, they keep talking about the opening guitar part as if that's the only portion of Stairway that matters. If Stairway had been seven minutes of that finger-picked arpeggio, it would not have been the monster hit that it was. That's just undeniable. Like I've said before, even if Page did swipe that guitar part from Taurus, he transformed it into a song which was and is totally unique. That's what musicians do. They start with what they like, then they transform it into something uniquely their own. That's how music works, and how it's always worked. California was just trying to stake some sort of claim onto what became the biggest song in rock, and even if he did write the portion in question, he didn't write Stairway. He wrote Taurus, a song which would've been utterly forgotten were it not for Stairway. At least Jake Holmes actually had a leg to stand on regarding Dazed. California is basically saying that a little part of his forgotten song sounds a lot like a little part of the biggest song in rock, ergo he wrote the biggest song in rock. It's ludicrous. It would be like saying that because I once wrote a book that began with the line "It was the best of times" I therefore wrote A Tale Of Two Cities. Sorry to go off on such a rant, but it just hacks me off to no end.
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You're talking about people with scruples, but we're talking about lawyers here. if I was a lawyer prior to this trial I'd have been thinking yeah, not touching that case. But given how far the case has gone, and that it made it this far in the hands of a complete clown, I think I'd be salivating over taking a shot at it for a second time around. As far as it happening now, I think it's clear that the Robin Thicke "Blurred Lines" case has been a game changer, and almost beyond a doubt prompted this one to be pursued. I could be totally wrong about this, and frankly I hope that I am, but again we're just talking hypothetically here anyhow. But the way I'm seeing it, it would be like if a football team made it to the Superbowl, but then lost because of a blown field goal by an awful kicker, I wouldn't be thinking oh well, that was our one shot and we blew it; I'd be thinking let's get a better kicker and go back and win next time.
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Well but Stephen Colbert said Zeppelin was "screwed", so there is that. Admittedly I'm looking at this from a biased point of view, and readily admit that I may have no idea what I'm talking about, but from that point of view such as it is, it seems to me that if I look at this from the perspective of the Wolfe estate, I'd see more evidence of an affirmative verdict now than before this lawsuit was launched. Before this lawsuit, I'd be thinking there's not a snowball's chance in hell that a lawsuit against the mighty Led Zeppelin regarding a small portion of an otherwise wildly different song won't be laughed out of court. Now, given that the case not only made it to trial, but all the so-called "legal experts" seem to be saying it's a total toss up as to who may prevail, I'd be thinking my chances the second time around look pretty good. Provided I hired a lawyer who wasn't a ridiculous boob. I'd be thinking, we could have won that thing if it weren't for the ridiculous boob of a lawyer who screwed it all up. The larger question for me would be whether or not the estate would even have the funds necessary for a second bite at the apple. I could be wrong, but I can't see the Randy Wolfe estate being flooded with money, and the expense of this case can't have been cheap. Also, I suppose there is that statute of limitations issue. It would seem that if the estate did want to pursue a second lawsuit they'd need to file it pretty quickly if they wanted to get their hands on the money from the 2014 reissue. It's not like they could take a few years to think about it. Obviously this is all hypothetical anyhow, and really the best case scenario at this point would be the jury deciding in favor of Zeppelin after a whole two minutes of deliberation.
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And it makes me wonder...hey see what I did there But seriously, I wonder if a mistrial would be good or bad for Zeppelin. Normally a mistrial tends to be good for the defendant, and in this case perhaps the Randy Wolfe estate would decide they've wasted enough money on this nonsense and just give up. But on the other hand, they could be encouraged by the fact that their case made it as far as it did, and could come back the next time with a lawyer who isn't a ridiculous boob and actually win it. The fact that the plaintiffs have a ridiculous boob for an attorney definitely helps Zeppelin here, but a second trial with someone who's actually serious and competent could be a very bad thing.
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Yeah you're probably right about that. I wonder how long it takes him to find that one specific song he's got a yearning to listen to.
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It does strike me as a little odd that Jimmy can know with that degree of specificity exactly how many albums and CDs he's got, but not know what they are. Unless one day he decided to count them all without actually looking at them.
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+1
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Another new Rolling Stone article, this one with some disturbing bits: The Spirit/"Taurus" side may have scored, however, when they called their expert witness Dr. Alexander Stewart, a musicologist, professional saxophonist and music professor at the University of Vermont. The most credible, sympathetic and compelling witness to take the stand in the trial other than Page himself, Dr. Stewart cogently and clearly explained the sophisticated music theory at issue for the first time during the proceedings. More significantly, he powerfully described the close similarities between the compositions, and scrappily held his own under a tough cross-examination by Zeppelin's counsel. Particularly damning was Dr. Stewart's analysis that, in their chord progressions, both "Taurus" and "Stairway" "in an unusual way" skip the "E" before resolving on an "A" note. Under oath, he claimed that this was unlike any of the 65 "prior art" examples of compositions using similar chordal and compositional structures submitted by the defense (including Henry Purcell's "Dido’s Lament," the Beatles' "Michelle" and the standard "My Funny Valentine"). Stewart also affirmed that none of the "prior art" examples have the "unique and distinctive elements" that "Taurus" and "Stairway" share, and that are protectable under copyright law. Dr. Stewart also pointed out that the analyses presented as evidence by the defense’s expert witness, the noted musicologist Lawrence Ferrara, did not take into account the treble clef in the sheet music for "Taurus," which accounts for "55 percent of the notes [in the song]." "Of the 43 different pitches between the compositions, not a single one is different," Stewart testified. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/mary-poppins-introduced-in-led-zeppelin-stairway-to-heaven-trial-20160616 Hopefully Zeppelin's defense will point out or has pointed out that Stairway features an ascending melody on top of the descending arpeggio, something which Taurus lacks. I'm not sure how they can be considered the same when they are, in fact, different. But this whole case was baloney from the beginning. Just some money-grubbing hyenas suing on behalf of a dead guy who never seemed to care enough to file a lawsuit himself.
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KellyGirl, where'd you find this stuff? If these kinds of antics keep up, this may never make it to the jury. I'm going to guess that Malofly might have been the only attorney scuzzy enough to take this case.
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Reading that Rolling Stone article, it sounds like this guy Malofiy is a real piece of work and has been annoying the judge mightily. Indeed. Hopefully once Malofly has blown his wad with all this minutia the defense attorney will get a chance to start demonstrating the age-old and un-copyrightable quality of this progression. Oh, and I have to say, the fact that this topic devolved into a discussion over the likelihood of forgetting one's wallet is a little absurd.
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Decent article about the day's events at court: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/music/2016/06/15/led-zeppelin-leaders-face-questions-over-stairway-origins/85916506/ Best part: " As the opening minutes of Stairway to Heaven were played, Plant looked at the jury and Page nodded his head to the tune. "
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Well sure, one can never underestimate the ability of jurors to display an alarming level of stupidity.
