It's seriously irritating when your country is mis-represented like that, I understand. It's certainly happened in the media over the years regarding various things (and countries) and this is no exception. However, if it's any consolation I don't think anyone who has spoken up in this thread is under the impression that it ever was more than a small faction of people doing that - certainly no-one has written any such thing. I think it is still OK to find that pretty off-putting though, even if you understand that it doesn't represent the country as a whole. The student riots in London recently, for example, made me angry and disappointed, but I did know that not only were those people a small section of the public but also actually only a small section of students.

It's the first filming for TSRTS with Maureen instead of the blonde - Robert's fantasy sequence x

There's no point to this particular discussion then - you have never left the US so you have NO personal experience of any other country. It's like someone saying "This is the best peanut butter in the world!" when they've never tried another brand. It's not because you are American. I'd say the same to a person from any country - even England - who tried to make the same claim. Hey I'm really glad that you love your country - and yeah, you have a lot to be proud of. Of all the places I've visited, the US is in my top 10, for sure. Try to stay open-minded too, though. The world has a LOT to offer. Happy Sunday!

So I'll ask you again - have you travelled very much? PS - sorry didn't answer you - yeah I'm English.

I can't say mate as I haven't been to them all - that's my point really. How can you say that it's a fact that the USA is the best country on the planet and always will be? What evidence do you base that fact on? You love your country - yeah that's fine. But giving it "Best on the Planet" status is another thing altogether.

No it isn't. Travelled much, have you?

Well most of this post is transparent - a complete over-reaction to anything Jahfin and I have said in this thread and an obvious long-held resentment which belies your postcount. So responding to it in any depth is only gonna feed your hate and I don't have the time or inclination for that. But you are right about one thing - its time I changed my avatar. That one came about because of a situation between another poster and myself and belongs in the past - it doesn't reflect my mood anymore. So I think I'll go back to the av I had when I first came to this site about 9 years ago. Thanks for the nudge! Sorry for the off-topic theme folks, as you were!

Quite a response there.

Today's paper

Please don't be surprised MStork - if you read back through my posts in this thread you'll see that I haven't anywhere said that killing OBL was wrong, and similarly I'm not saying in my post that you quoted that action against those countries was wrong - that's a whole other chat right there, and my opinions on that are quite clouded. In the post you quoted I was pointing out that this situation hasn't been an attack on New York followed by the murder of OBL. The innocent civilians who have died in the time in-between are just as important to remember as every person who died on 9/11,

I don't need to look, as that is not my point. I'm fully aware of terrorism and terrorist threats too, thanks.

Very fair, understood, and cheers to you

Fair comment. And also my point. And therefore also there is no proof for the comment "thousands have been saved". As for my comment about people giving a sh*t I'm just going by this thread. Would be delighted to be proved shown to be wrong.

You can't have reasonable, sensible and factual debate with people like you. Go back to your blind patriotism.

I know you want to deliberately keep avoiding my point, but NONE of that actually proves how many WOULD have been killed had the actions not been stopped and therefore how many HAVE been saved. But back to the fact that thousands HAVE been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001 - howcome no-one seems to give a sh*t about this?

MFTA - Did I say anywhere that I'm NOT thankful? People seem very ready to read all sorts of things into posts on this thread that are not there. And no, I don't think it does, but I do prefer cold hard facts.

Sorry but that's just speculation. It's fact that thousands have been killed - if anyone can provide evidence of thousands being "saved", I'm listening.

Thousands? Care to back that up?

My view is that a lot of people in this thread are speaking as if nothing has happened between 9/11 and now. THOUSANDS have been killed since then in this "War On Terror" - I guess because it hasn't been on OUR soil it has been easier not to notice it.

Sorry mate that was a hoax - an existing pic of him doctored to look bruised and battered x

Sorry Steve didn't mean to be editing whilst you were quoting - just trying to make my point a little clearer as I'm aware that it was open to interpretation.

Flag-waving and patriotism is not a problem for me - I love to see the USA celebrating July 4th and I was just delighted to see the flag-waving at the Royal Wedding in England on Friday. That's real patriotism and there's not a thing wrong with it. But I compare what I am referring to, the news coverage and pictures I have seen, with the flag-waving I see from some factions at the Old Firm football matches in Scotland, and English football hooligans embarrassing us abroad. That's not patriotism, it's hate.

I hope so too HP - we have had terrorism on our shores since the 1970s - it ain't no Shangri-La xx

We in the UK were saying that for 30 years when Noraid was thriving. I am not anti -U.S.A - not by any stretch. I think emotions are running high. Peace to all would be lovely .x

And the only words in my post were King's. If you can find me a more appropriate time to post that quote, I'd love to know it. The rejoicing and flag-waving is sickening. It is only paving the way to the death of more, and more, and more. And anyone who wants to spit back at me may like to remember that terrorism didn't begin with 9/11. Others in the world have suffered it for years. I personally think the ones who think this is appropriate behaviour are the ones who are on thin ice.