Rock Historian
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You said the Beatles, the Who and the Stones were "overrated". Your words:
ADD Jaf ?????
I'm waiting
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I don't recalll ever once saying that Im "rating" a band...that's your words. Im sorry for that. You didn't answer my question Jahfin. ADD????
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I'm just expressing my opinion.
So am I , buddy. Even if it clashes yours.
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...You are still applying a "rating" to their works. It is also your opinion that "there are not enough great tunes in their catalouge to hold them in that high of a place". I listen to music for the enjoyment it brings me, not to try to figure out who is better than who, which is also only a matter of opinion.
You also gotta have the last word, even if it means repeating yourself over and over again. -like beatin a dead horse. How old are you???
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It appears it is a competition for you as you are rating the works of the Who, the Beatles, the Stones and Led Zeppelin. In so doing, you are saying the music of the Who, the Beatles and the Stones is "overrated", especially when compared to the music of Led Zeppelin.
No, their "overrated" to me simply because there are not enough great tunes in each of their catalouges to hold them in that high of a place....Boy, do you have ADD????? Seriously......
You need to READ more , and less jibber jabber- I basically mentioned that more than a few times. So you can make it into a competition or whatever you wanna twist the words into. Anyway you look at it, their music does not measure up to their individual stature. Keep posting if you like- I validated my point and honest opinion (even if it doesn't meet your requirements or taste) more than enough.
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None of which lessens the Beatles' artistic endeavors.
With "in your book" being the keywords. As for what is considered their "best" songs, that's also a matter of opinion. Bottom line is, rock n' roll is an artform so trying to judge it is futile at best. Personally, I don't listen to music with an ear towards assigning a rating to it or pitting artists against each other, it's not a competition.
Nor is it a competition for me. Funny you see my post that way-
We like who we like for our own reasons. But, our opinion makes us EACH who we are - that's all we got. Are you gonna tell me that the vast majority of The Who, Stones and Beatles tunes are good or great? If so, that's your own opinion and good for you. I don't see their legacies that way. -
Can't say I've ever thought of the Stones, the Who or the Beatles as being "overrated". They've all been innovators in their own ways so I feel the praise has been warranted. No one artist is going to have a spotless track record, including Led Zeppelin. As for the Beatles being a "boy band", nothing could be farther from the truth. NSYNC, Backstreet Boys, Boys to Men, New Kids on the Block, etc.? Yes but the huge difference between them and the Beatles is that the Beatles wrote and performed their own music. Did the Beatles attract a largely teenybopper crowd in the early stages of their career? Yes, of course they did but that alone doesn't qualify them as a "boy band", a term that didn't even come into play into the proliferation of acts I've previously mentioned. What the Beatles had going for them were songs, songs they wrote, recorded and performed on their own. There was also no shady characters such as Lou Pearlman lurking in the shadows attempting to control every aspect of their careers. Funny that no one ever accused the Beatles of being a "boy band" until after the success of the artists (and I use that term very loosely) I've previously mentioned. If anything, it was bands like the Beatles that helped displace the popularity of the teen idol mentality that was so prevalent before they came along.
I agree that The Beatles cannot be compared to the "bands" you mentioned for the clear fact that they were true musicians. I referred to them as the first "boy band" for the sheer fact that flocks of women who had no intention of caring about the depth or shallowness of their purposely written pop tunes - turned them into mass hysteria. There is a youtube clip from John Bonham talking about the Beatles. Basically he says something along the lines "People just wanted to see THEM, they didn't really care about the music. It was about seeing them because they were so big at the time. So, I wouldn't denounce that they had big role in defining what a boy pop band is today, regardless if the bands of today wrote their own songs or not-the mass appeal remains the same. Good looking guys, writting (or getting help writting) catchy , simple, commercially acceptable pop tunes. The Beatles definitly started that way. The very first few albums were songs like Love me Do, Can't buy me Love, etc.etc, etc....come one man. It's the same mindset (purposely written pop tunes to sell to a market) -just a different era. The Beatles got much deeper with the latter albums. They wrote meaningful songs. As far as The Who and The Stones, yes they left a mark on Rock and Roll for sure, but I don't believe they are as good as everyone makes them. Like I said, the best songs from these groups are the ones you hear most often on popular playlist radio. For Zeppelin-the unknown, less played tracks were equally as good. That makes for a better cataloge in my book. Hence, a band worthy of their title.
Miss You, is my favorite Stones tune. Sympathy for the Devil, Angie, Waiting on a Friend. Things like that were really, really good.
The Who had great ones too. Who Are You, Behind Blue Eyes, Baby O'Reily, Wont get Fooled Again, Join Together, 5:15 . Great tunes.
But for me, if you are considered to be one of the greatest, quanity and quality are equal.
The Stone's don't have that going for them in my book. Nor do the others.
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My first concert was Jimmy Page at the Municipal Auditorium , New Orleans - September 24th 1988. I was a month before turning 15. I went with a guy who turned me on to music in general (I wrote a thread about it called - Why I Love Zeppelin). It was a great show. The venue was far from packed, but everyone there seemed to be a die hard Zep fan. I can't really recall if it was heavily advertised on local radio. I still rememer the concert itself very clear.There was a guy named Mason Ruffner that opened up. A three piece band with a flashy guitar player. They were good too. I saw loads of kids from school who were Zep freaks like myself. A few made signs out of sheets with the ZOSO symbol drawn on them. Every time Page went to one side of the stage , they held up the signs. It was a great time for me. I have a really good cassette recording of the entire show. Think I'll go listen to it for old time sake.
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Three bands that come to mind that are just a tad overated: The Stones, The Who, The Beatles. All three bands wrote good music, don't get me wrong, but I think they wrote just as many "not so great tunes" as they did well written ones. As for Zeppelin-it's hard to find a song I don't like. Which is part of the reason I like them so much. The Stones and The Who made good records, but not every song on every album was good. Some were just plain silly or not worth listening too twice. The Beatles did alot for the revolution of music. However, they were the first "boy band". They made great pop tunes in the beginning and wrote much deeper material towards the end of their career, but again-half of their cataloge isn't worth mentioning. In a case such as these three bands mentioned, the more popular songs are the best ones. As for Zeppelin, the songs you don't hear by popular demand are just as good as the ones overplayed. That's the key difference.
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Van Halen. I'm going to say that I am probably in the minority section of VH fans that prefer Sammy Hagar albums with VH - over Roth. They just sounded different (in a better more mature way) with Hagar. He was an extremely better vocalist if you just go off of talent and quality of songs they wrote with him. Roth made a permanant statement with VH and they worte alot of great songs with him as well. To me, their better songwriting days were in the latter half of their career. The 5150 album is a favorite of mine. What a monster!
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Yeah Easy Does It is killer as is Absolution Blues, dang every time I put that album on I'm blown away. Jimmy sounding as good as ever.
I said it before and I'll say it again, although I was in hog heaven that Page/Plant got back together for the two 90's tours and I was able to see them, I ten to one would have rather heard more C/P than the Unledded and WIC albums anyday of the week.
I agree. I think it's Page's best overall playing since Zeppelin and maybe my personal favorite (you gotta say your own "personal" favorite on here, or you'll get questioned, bashed, or made a topic of - so beware!) of his entire carrer besides Zeppelin albums. There are a few spots within Coverdale's lyrics that sound a bit too "predictable" or "cliche" to me "personally" but besides that I love it as a whole.
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You say "glam" as though it's a dirty word. Maybe you're alluding to hair metal.
Hair metal is another word for glam, glam metal, hair metal, glam rock..Is there really that much difference???? You know what I meant and if you don't, your pretty narrow-minded, for someone who claims to listen to such a wide range of music..you of all people should have understood my comment. I think there are quite a few people who are getting a little annoyed with you Jahfin. I've grown more patient with age with stupid remarks, but still in all, you tend to want to pick out any particular word you dont feel fit, or that you want an exact definition for. However, you know exactlty what I meant with my comment. No where in there did I refer to "glam" as a dirty word, but as a reference of what type of style it reminds me of . It's a shame someone can't post a simple, very simple comment without you twisting it, or making some sort of goofy comment based on what YOU think it should be...that's kinda sad brotha. One things for sure, aside from your constant cracks on just about every thread we both dig Zeppelin and that's alright by me, but sometimes you need to learn how to keep your mouth shut. Hasn't happened yet though...have a good evening man, I sincerley mean that. And oh, congradulations, you got more out of me than expected...won't happen again though. I'll let you entertain a few others who enjoy your post.
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I'd like to see anything from C/P again, but more on the lines of a studio album then outtakes and filmed rehearsals. I really like all of the unreleased tracks Ive heard so far. That was some of Page's best playing, without a doubt. Even though a handful of the popular tracks, like "shake my tree" had sort of a glam sound to them, it's still a great album. The lesser known tracks are the better ones I think. "Easy does It" and "Absolution Blues" are killer.
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UNMASKED..or UNHELMETED
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I discovered Led Zeppelin around the age of 14. My neighbor (Brian) who was about 10 or 12 years older than me was into music heavily. Every weekend he would be outside washing his new truck, and I would offer to help him. It started to become a weekly ritual, and when I was finished helping him, he would take me around the area we lived and just cruise around. He would turn me on to all this music I had yet to discover. He always had something new playing in his tape deck. My first memories of The Who, Iron Maiden, Rush, Jethro Tull, Motley Crue, Ratt and many others came from the speakers of his truck. I'd always ask ,"who's this??" and he'd tell me the bands name usually followed by a little bit of info on the group. I thought this guy was the coolest. You have to keep in mind that this was the mid-to late 80's and Hair Metal ruled MTV and pop-culture. One day he put a tape in and didn't say a word......."Hey, hey mamma said the way you move, gonna make you sweat, gonna make you groove" poured from the speakers followed by this massive riff that could destroy Satan himslf. I instantly new this was different from anything I had heard in my 14 years of life. I shouted over the music,"Who is this?" Brian answered,"Led Zeppelin, one of the greatest bands ever". I was hooked.
He then played The Rover and once again, the riff blew me away. It was so heavy and musical. I subscibed to one of those music companies that sold tapes and cd's (BMG music). You paid for the first tape and then the others were free and you paid for shipping. Anyone remember? I ordered a few from Rush and ZZ Top and Led Zeppelin IV. I recieved them in the mail a week later and played the hell out of Zep IV until the felt started to fade on the bottom of the tape. Brian also gave me Led Zep II on vinyl around this time. I didn't have a state of the art record player, but there was my little brothers Fisher Price record player with a mini speaker in it, used for playing childrens records, etc. Once I put on the first track I was hooked. The Fisher Price record player was transformed into my own personal escape. Markings of " Zeppelin Rulez" were written all over the tiny white record player. It was now mine. My friends at the time were all into the fad, fashion and music of the day. I tried to turn them on to Zeppelin , but it was over their heads. They didn't understand the musicality of this new band I was introduced to. I slowly became an outsider to my pack of friends and was lightly joked uopn because of my taste in music. But I knew deep down that what I liked was truly music. I knew it was good and it had meaning, passion and soul-which the music of the day lacked completely. Zeppelin was like a revelation to me.
Soon after I started to study and read about them through books and magazines. I would travel 5 miles round trip on my bike to the closest music shop called Acorn Records and Tapes. Every week I would by a new Zeppelin or Zep related album unil my collection was complete. I became obsessed with them. They were all I listened to. My parents told me it was okay to listen to music but to be that much into just one band all the time was little over the top. I didn't care. I couldn't get enough of them, and with each album and song I became more fixated on their whole purpose. I bought Hammer of the Gods like every other fool and believed it all, until I realised it was mosltly bullshit years later. With all of this going on at one time, I took an interest in playing guitar. My mom bought me a $99 guitar with a built-in speaker from Sears or something. It took one 9V battery. I joined a music class as an elective in High School and met a bunch of cool guys who were moslty into the same stuff as myself. There were a few Hair Band activist, who I was cool with but never had any real communication with. They didn't like Zep a whole lot, so I didn't care much for them. It's almost as if I didn't really trust or respect them because they didn't like Zeppelin. How could these guys not care for Zeppelin??? Were they insane?. We would have arguments about who was the best band and all that jazz - and at times I became very defensive. I held them very close to my heart. They were in a way my savior from all the trash on the radio/TV.
I soon noticed that my talent for playing guitar came very natural to me. I never learned to read music, but I could hear something once or twice and figure out the chords and play it. I formed a band with two other classmates and ironically called the band "Achilles"...go figure. After playing the guitar for a few months , I gained interest in the drums and managed to get a hold of an old Rogers drum set. This was my position in the band. Again, my co-ordination was natural. I became quite good in a short period of time. We wrote our own music, which to this day sounds pretty good. It was more on the metal side of things - like Metallica or Iron Maiden. Achilles did a few talent shows for school and a few parties here and there.
It was now 1989. There were two Classic Rock radio stations at this time who basically played the same stuff. 92.3 "Classic Rock" and WRNO 99.5 "The Rock of New Orleans" On weekends and school nights when I had nothing to do, I would glue myself to the radio and just listen, I would spend hours engulfed in the music coming into my room. As time passed, I was able to name any song on the radio, the artist, the year, the album, etc. You name it, I knew it. This was my HOMEWORK.
A few years passed, as the routine continued. Around the age of 19 or 20 I started to collect bootlegs and managed to aquire a nice size collection. I had boots from every year. Probably 40 concerts in all. By this time my entire room was covered with Zep posters, memorabilia, etc. (which I have all lost since then, due to Hurricane Katrina in 2005) My band had split up and I was looking for a new project to get into. I knew my talents would take me somewhere, and most of all I enjoyed it. A friend of mine was looking to join a group but they needed a bass player, not a drummer. I had always had an interest in bass and now was a good time to try it out. I borrowed a bass from a musical friend and it was just as natural as any other instrument. I was new to the instrument, so I wasn't all that flashy yet, but I knew the notes, which was good enough for now. I was also singing a bit at the time. After a few jam sessions, a new band was formed called "DeJa Vu". We played top 40 classic rock and a few originals.
My love for Zeppelin was still strong, even though I had managed to appreciate other great bands like Rush and Pink Floyd, none of the new music was of interest. Everything I liked was considered "old". (Classic Rock) I also aquired a love for the blues, which again was inspired by my love for Zeppelin. They opened my eyes to how music should be composed and arranged- not only how to play.
I was born on October 23rd, 1973. The year Houses of the Holy was released, almost to the day. What better way to celebrate my love, than a permanant mark? Me and a few buddies of mine decided to get a tattoo one evning...Mine.....We'll I had the indide cover of HOTH engraved on my left arm. You know, the pic of the guy holding the adolecent child over his head. Looks exactly like it, except bigger. I brought the album with me that night so the artist couls sketch it out on paper...It looks beautiful to this day...Another reminder of The Zeppelin.....
In 1997, I formed a trio with my brother on drums, a guitar player and myself on bass/vocals called "Three Piece White Meat". The name was hilarious, but we were hungry musicians who played around town consistantly. We did originals with a mix of Zeppelin, Rush and Black Sabbath. We were all heavy into Zeppelin and the guitar players father owned a record shop. The next few years of my life would be spent in and out of this shop, buying anything available from Zeppelin. My collection was getting bigger and bigger. It was good to finally realise at this point that the path I had chosen (musical preference) was indeed a good one, because my like-minded friends all had good taste and had been through that same phase in life. My friends had good taste, and I suppose so did I. It all made sense. All the years I had been teased because of what I had listened to, didn't matter anymore. I knew from an early age that what I embraced was going to shape my life and it did.
In 2000, I had the pleasure of meeting one of my idols. Mr. JPJ at the HOB in New Orleans. He was supporting his Zooma LP. After a fantastic show, I waited outside for 3 hours to meet him. As he came out, I got nervous. I didn't know what to say!!!! After he signed a few autograph I asked him to take a few pics with me and sign a few things. I told him what an impact he had on my life growing up and he seemed really humbled by my comments. He was very polite and easy going. After the pics he said to me "good luck with your music, I hope you do well out there" and he disappeard into the dark ally. I was speechless for days. I couldn't believe I actually met JPJ. It was incredible. My brother and some friends (who also met him that night) were all in a daze for a week or so. Did we just meet The Master of Bass??? Yes, we did.
A year or so later, I formed another Trio called "Endora's Mask" which still exist to this day. You can check out a few tunes at:
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I enjoy both of The Firm's albums. Mean Business is a little stronger in my opinion. Fortune Hunter, Cadillac, Spirit of Love, Dreaming and Live in Peace are all good songs. The guitar solo on Live in Peace still gives me goosebumps when I hear it. Thats a classic Page moment.
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Bump..a few more from the Canadian show:-)
The Firm [Live '86] - Midnight Moonlight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSqLTPKcPjM
The Firm [Live '86] - Fortune Hunter ~ Found Somebody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE9o4Y_P2hY
This is from the show in Cleveland Ohio, 5/11/86 "Royal Darkness" which is probably the best performance and best sounding show from this tour that I've heard so far. I have this one on disk. It's been under so many different venue dates and names that it's hard to be sure, but I have three different sources of this particular show which all point to the same date. Although the title here is from Canada. If you do some research you will find that it's most likely the Ohio date. No matter what and where it's from, it's a killer show-no doubt. Page's playing reminded me a little of Eddie VH from this era. He used alot of wammy bar and notes that remind me of VH. His style of playing this way only happened with the Firm. Amazing how he changed up his whole approach and style for this band.
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Well it's kinda hard to understand what you are saying underneath that metal helmet.
HAHAHA!!!!! that was a good one! Now Go Shave!
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As disappointing as it was, I think it's grossly unfair to form an opinon of Jason as an entertainer from a single gig held over 15 years ago. There's no question he's a better drummer and a more mature person now than he was then.
Thats exactly what I meant when I said, maybe his attitude has changed, because that was 15 years ago....your muttering my words
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As disappointing as it was, I think it's grossly unfair to form an opinon of Jason as an entertainer from a single gig held over 15 years ago. There's no question he's a better drummer and a more mature person now than he was then.
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I'm not here to bash Jason Bohnam on his career choices,nor will I judge him as a person, but I will tell a brief story. I saw him do a Zeppelin tribute back in the late 90's with some fellows who very much resembled Led Zeppelin in both playing and appearance. They were very good. As a matter of fact, the bass player was the guy from the band Bohnam. The guitar player (can't remember his name) was from NYC. He was a friendly guy. I talked to him for 20 minutes or so sfter the gig. Long story short, it was in a small club in New Orleans called Jimmy's Music Club. They may have had 75 to 100 people in the place. Apparently this upset Jason and they quit playing after an hour and 15 minutes. I was pretty dissapointed by that. I even asked the guitar player on the side of the stage after the gig what was the reason for such a short show. He said Jason was aggravated about the lack of attendance......So you make your own opinion of the man from that...Maybe his attitude has changed, because that was 15 years ago or more.....but at the time, I lost respect for him over that.
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Everytime I listen to D&C from TSRTS, I swear RP says "Devil people" during the part of San Francisco where he is supposed to say "gentle people". Anyone else ever notice this? Go to 6:40 to hear what I'm talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wewu45XSb00
If you're going to San Francisco
Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair
If you're going to San Francisco
You're gonna meet some gentle people there
For those who come to San Francisco
Summertime will be a love-in there
In the streets of San Francisco
Gentle people with flowers in their hair
Intro.: All across the nation, such a strange vibration
People in motion
There's a whole generation with a new explanation
People in motion, people in motion
For those who come to San Francisco
Be sure to wear some flowers in their hair
If you come to San Francisco
Summertime will be a love-in there
Extro.: If you come to San Francisco
Summertime will be a loving day
I gotta agree with you. I believe he is saying "Devil people"... I've interpred it that way ever since I heard it. What you hear, is what you hear.
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I just have a very vague memory about this. Bonzo is much closer to Ozzy than to Dio, understandably. So after a Black Sabbath gig Bonzo went to backstage and congratulated Tony that he found such a fine singer who could sing so well... though it was such a pity he was soooo short. Bonzo kept talking about Dio's height while the object himself was actually standing beside them, and of course Dio was not very happy about this.
Uh sorry I haven't got a link for this.
Yeah, that's cool..thanks for that. I just wanted to know if the respect was there - musically.
Do you remember what book this is in reference too?
Of all the interviews I've read and heard from Zep and Dio, I never once heard them mention one another..I'm also a big fan of Dio. HE's predictable in his writing but the guy can sing...I think he's one of the best. I really love the work he did with Sabbath just as equally as with Ozzy.
We like who we like for our own reasons. But, our opinion makes us EACH who we are - that's all we got. Are you gonna tell me that the vast majority of The Who, Stones and Beatles tunes are good or great? If so, that's your own opinion and good for you. I don't see their legacies that way.
Rush
in Other Bands / Music
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I LOVE Rush. One of my favorite groups for sure. Next to Zeppelin and Floyd I listen to them the most. I like the more obscure albums, like Caress of Steel and Hemispheres. But I personally think that everything up until Signals are great albums. I've seen them live 7 times and they never dissappoint. Can't say enough good things about them.