Rock Historian
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Continued....
Man, I'd have to imagine that this was Plant's idea to re-invent this song. How bad do you think Page wanted to go into that original riff just out of habit.
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lzzoso was banned but if I'm not mistaken, he's back under a new name (imagine that).
I think I know who your talking about-i just saw that! wow.
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I have been a die-hard fan of the Mighty Led Zeppelin for over 25 years now. I have collected over 100 bootlegs albums and cd's, read almost every book about the band, seen the Firm (once 1), the Jason Bonham band (1), John Paul Jones solo (3), solo Robert Plant (12) , Jimmy Page and the Black Crowes (3) and Page/Plant (10). Like most of you, I consider myself to be one of the most hard-core fans around. I am 38 years old. However, with the advent of the internet, especially YouTube and this awesome website , I have researched and heard Led Zeppelin and hundreds of Led Zeppelin related (solo and otherwise) songs that I thought I would never ever hear. YouTube has a vast selection of these precious gems. A few examples: John Paul Jones' first solo single "Baja" and "A Foggy Day in Vietnam". I have never heard these 2 songs by Jonesy until just recently. And one I just recently discovered. Jimmy Page playing "Domino" and "Dazed and Confused" (live 1999) at the Net Aid concert in New York. And the so-called early 80's project XYZ. Of course there are hundreds of other "gems" on YouTube related to Led Zeppelin. Just type in Led Zeppelin= Jimmy Page-Robert Plant-John Paul Jones-John Bonham Any particular favorites you have come across on YouTube that you cares to share with us- the Loyal Led Zeppelin fans.
lzzoso, you and I share alot in common when it comes to Zeppelin and things related from what your post reads. I am also the same age as you. I've been an avid Zeppelin fan for many many years, and the first time I heard them, I was hooked and still am. I was turned on to them when I was about 14. Here you will find many gems, news, stories, shared links, etc. It is a valuable source of information on the greatest rock band in the world. Alot of the youtube links are probably may already be a double and triple post since people post things all the time in several different threads, so I wont post a link for you at the moment. I just wanted to welcome you and to forum and hope you enjoy your time here.
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i saw the firm on the mean business tour in 1986 it was my first concert. to this day it was one of the best concerts i 've attended. jimmy page was like a chameleon with the firm. he played the most otherworldly solo's you could imagine. i think he was very influenced by eddie van halen and those sort of players and actually recognized that style as an influencial form and approach. he used alot of whammy bar and effects that would have him rival the best of that era. they had many fine guitar players in the 80's. some of the best technically speaking. i read a quote from robert plant that said he went to a firm show and started literally crying because he had never seen him play like that before and also never saw him from that view of the stage-always being on the stage with him. jp is a true master.
i remember reading that same quote from RP. You can sense the emotion in that statement, and it's so true. JP was so versatile in his approach and to what The Firm was doing as well as his awareness of the guitar slingers of the day. I don't think he was trying to emulate any one players style, but a myriad of styles that progressed from the 70's on into the 80's. I think The Firm would have been a little more successful had they come out in a different period. I still think the albums hold up today, for what they are. I have two or three Firm live shows that feature some of his best playing from any era. True master-you said it!
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Tull is a great band. . Here's a cool one (lost gem) found with Toni Iommi on guitar and another one that's a favorite of mine.
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From 1975 to 1979, Rush released three albums containing sidelong epics, regarded by some as concept albums (though not actually concept albums by strict definition of the term; that is, none of the other songs on the album have anything to do with each other or the 20-minute sidelong epic, so there is no pervasive concept or story). The first of which was released in 1975, titled Caress of Steel. The second was their breakthrough album, 2112, released the following year in 1976. Their third was released in 1978, Hemispheres.
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Go find a band or an album to present that particular kind of concept to that degree in 1975 on one side of an album or as a set of albums. Original- yes. You musn't have a clue what they are writting/talking about.
I also find it funny that you only chose to answer the questions you have a quck answer for, and not the ones that involve some explaining. You've done that a few times so far- (failing to answer) .
Example- Remember this?
(my question to you) What's your favorite, or one of your favorite Zeppelin or Hendrix albums? If I said it "sucks" would you have something to say about it?....KNOWING that it doesn't. I bet you would.
You had no reponse for that one.
And This?? (Your comment) Quote: And if you have All The World's A Stage, you don't need Rush or Fly By Night either. Or 2112.
(My response) All the World's a Stage does present the first side of 2112, but it doesn't mean you should disregard the album itself. People that are not even fans of Rush, recognize that album as a classic. That's like saying you shouldn't own Houses of the Holy if you have The Song Remains the Same...Yeah, I know...sounds pretty stupid-right?
Exactly!
You had no response to this one either.
Just take into consideration-that I'm doing the explaining and validating a point and also being respectful. You on the other hand, just wanna blurt out nonsense-which is how this "discussion" got started. I can go with you all day on this-but not in the manner you choose too. But that's cool. I see how it is-you don't want a discussion-you just want to try and prove your point. The only thing I got out of you so far was that you don't care for Rush that much - and I do. So go ahead and move on to something (another thread) you know or care more about.
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Ok - Caress Of Steel sucks, IMO. Better?
Dunno why you have to take it personally. Most bands have rubbish albums in their catalogue, even LZ. To Rush's credit, they recovered from CoS and went on to make 2112, just over half of which was superb. And they then went on to even better things, for a few years. So although CoS sucks (IMO), it was a necessary transitional stepping-stone from their early, fairly basic rock to the mid-period epics.
As for Exit, well, I'm not alone in thinking it sounds like shit. The British music press agreed. Maybe we just have better ears over here? Compared to the sound on ATWAS, it is muddy and verges on bootleg quality, IMO.
No, it's not better...cause guess what? It doesn't suck. Over your head? - Yes. Not your taste? - Maybe. As for Exit Stage Left, you said it sounds like shit-meaning performance? sound-mix? You didn't make your one word statement clear as usual, until now. So, thank you. I will agree (and Im never afraid to do that -or to be honest) that it does have a less than clear tone. It's sounds pretty low end and not the greatest of clarity from the guitars, but ATWAS is not much better if you wanna go off of that aspect of it. And as for my ears, I have excellent hearing-I play music myself and work at a studio from time to time. Trust me-I have no hearing loss at all. I hear things nobody else hears in the studio (and I don't mean voices). My wife ask me all the time around the house, "how did you hear that?" So when you say something sounds like shit-make it clear next time if you are talking performance, sound or otherwise. Even so, I disagree. It could have been better-but also far worse. You have made your point without saying-that you are not really a heavy Rush fan, so I wouldn't expect you to like Caress of Steel. It's only for people who appreciate them on a bigger level-and understand the concept of it. Not a typical Rush observer who thinks Tom Sawyer is possibly their best song. (not nesessarily meaning you-just in general)
Also, If you have any musical talent whatsoever (play an instrument/song writting/lyrics etc.) you wouldn't dare say COS sucks, because Bastille Day, The Fountain of Lamneth and The Necromancer would blow your fuckin mind-way ahead of it's time-both for it's musicality , concept and originality.
I'm not gonna say that you can't grasp Rush, because you very well may. But certian things they have accomplished are over peoples heads, but I like that - because I get it.
What's your favorite, or one of your favorite Zeppelin or Hendrix albums? If I said it "sucks" would you have something to say about it?....KNOWING that it doesn't. I bet you would.
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Not really sure, but I will do a little searching to help you find out one day. I remember the speech you are talking about-with Robert mentioning them as an act they had a privledge of performing with. But also, it's very strange that he had those words to say, because I remember Robert Plant also saying in an interview that he saw The Doors once (wheather or not it was the same venue Zeppelin played with them) and he was turned off by the fact that Jim Morrison mooned the audience and told them to go fuck themselves.
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Caress Of Steel sucks. And if you have All The World's A Stage, you don't need Rush or Fly By Night either. Or 2112.
IMO this is all you need:
All The World's A Stage
Farewell To Kings
Hemispheres
Permanent Waves
Moving Pictures
Exit Stage Left sounds like shit. There are far better boots out there.
You know what man, you continue to use words like "sucks" when referring to something you don't like. That's my problem with you. You have NO tact in your wording. I'm not going to sit here and tell you what to like or dislike-because it's up to you. But, you have a way of making every album YOU don't like - SUCK. Caress of Steel does not suck. It might not be for YOU- but you are not the law. And 2112 is a GREAT album and a must have if you are wanting to discover Rush. All the World's a Stage does present the first side of 2112, but it doesn't mean you should disregard the album itself. People that are not even fans of Rush, recognize that album as a classic. That's like saying you shouldn't own Houses of the Holy if you have The Song Remains the Same...Yeah, I know...sounds pretty stupid-right?
Exactly!
Exit Stage Left sounds like shit??? - Your just here to piss somebody off - I thought I got through to you last time we had a discussion -when you called my comment "rediculous", without being decent enough to ask what I meant first - so just for you, I re-phrased what I said to get on the same page. But now your being plain ignorant man- sorry , but that's exactly what you sound like - to a Rush fan.
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I don't have Caress of Steel but I do have Hemispheres and love it. I've heard cuts from Caress of Steel over the years but don't think I've ever heard the entire record. Way back in the day, I must have picked up the Rush Archives collection on vinyl dozens of times but I never purchased it. Believe it or not, I only recently (as in the last couple of years) purchased 2112. Back in high school, someone gave me a cassette with the first record on it but I've never actually purchased that album.
Just for shits n' grins, here's a photo of the Rush Archives collection:
I read something the other day about one of those Sector sets being recalled because the mix isn't correct. Very cool of Rush and everyone involved to actually listen to the fans and fix the problem. Not every band would do that.
As for epic Rush vs. short and concise Rush, I'm a fan of both but I have no problem admitting I have a huge soft spot for stuff like "Cygnus X-1" and "Cygnus X-1: Book II". One of the funniest moments of their interview with Stephen Colbert on The Colbert Report a few years ago was his question about them thinking up new epic length songs during the performance of their epic length songs.
The album you posted here is a hard to find item. I have looked for it a few times and it's pretty pricey and hard to come across. It was released in the 70's I believe right around 1978. It featured the first three albums. That is one of the few I don't own . I won't say I know everything there is to know about Rush, but I do my homework on them-they are probably my second or third favorite band depending on what day it is. I like Floyd as well - right up there. But if you like Hemispheres (which may be my favorite Rush album) you need to listen to Caress of Steel all the way through. Actually , Im surprised you don't own a few Rush albums with all of the music you tend to listen to. You need to catch up on that.
Rush 1974
Fly by Night 1975
Caress of Steel 1975
2112 1976
A Farewell to Kings 1977
Archives 1978
Hemispheres 1978
Permanant Waves 1980
Moving Pictures 1981
Signals 1982
This is the heart of the Rush cataloge.
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It makes sense for someone like myself who runs screaming anytime 2112 comes on the local classic rock radio station. I never personally cared for their proggy earlier stuff, they got a lot better once they got more concise. From Planet Waves forward, they got very interesting to listen to.
But hey that's just me.........
Planet Waves???? HAHAHAH!!! You mean Permanant Waves?? I hope that was a type-O, man. And their earlier stuff wasn't proggy at all, so I think you have your albums and years mixed up. The first two albums sounded more like Zeppelin on speed than anything. Farewell to Kings is where the prog really started to show.
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If you own the first 6 or 8, that's all you need to get started.
Are you familiar with Caress of Steel or Hemispheres?
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All the World's A Stage was my first Rush album back in the 70s. I believe I have all of the live records but that bonus disc that came with Different Stages is still my favorite. I also really love the R30 DVD.
What are your 3 favorite Rush LP's?
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My favorite of the live albums would have to be Different Stages, not for just how they mic'ed the audience on the newer recordings but for the vintage disc from the Farewell To Kings tour. I especially love that live version of "Xanadu".
Exit Stage Left and All the World's a Stage feature Rush in their prime. I recommend those two if you don't own them.
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And that's one of the main reasons why I find them (or their earlier stuff, at least) technically impressive but largely unengaging. Their material does not lend itself to improvisation, and so their countless live albums are all ultimately pointless.
A few years ago, some guy wrote to Mojo dissing Zep, saying among other things that they sucked live. I recognised his name, so I wrote back putting him straight, in no uncertain terms.
His name? Skip Gildersleeve. Enough said.
Yes, I have to agree with you there about the live albums. They are pretty "pointless" to the degree of not leaving anything to imagine. What you hear on record is what you hear live. Period. As for the amazement factor-nobody in rock and roll is tighter in a live performance than RUSH. But that's because they play everything note for note - everytime. They do get a little out of the box on tunes like Working Man, where they throw in a reggae intro (which I've witnessed) but for the most part it's like closing your eyes and putting on an album. Some of Lifeson's solos seem to change but not to the point of being unrecognized. But again, that is about taste. Don't get me wrong,, I'm not really "complaining" as I worded it, it's just something that they lack, or choose not to do-but that's their niche- being perfectionist! Caress of Steel, Fly By Night, 2112, Farewell to Kings, Hemispheres, Moving Pictures.....all exceptional music.
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Seems like I read somewhere that their upcoming album, Clockwork Angels, would feature a few epic length tunes as in the days of old. Not sure if Rush is still capable of pulling that off at this stage of the game (even though those kinds of songs used to be their stock in trade) but I'm willing to give 'em a listen.
If you've ever been to Rush show, that's the last thing you would ever question out loud or within yourself. I've seen em' 7 times and they always impress and put on an excellent show. They still play the first side of 2112 which is about 15 minutes long. They recently came to New Orleans and the also played the whole Moving Pictures album without missing a lick-most of all, they did Cygnus X-1 which is another lengthy epic. They are very enjoyable to watch. My only "complaint" with them, is that they rarely get into anything spontaneous. What you hear on record is excactly what you hear live. But that's just the kinda band they are.
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Glad you had a good time Deborah. I knew you would be impressed.
@RockHistorian.....I think that even Joe would agree that a lot of his early stuff lacks some the the soulful emotion that blues needs to convey, but as he has matured and experienced the trials and tribulations of living, the playing has become much more emotional. Seeing him live he does give a polished show, which I like. I think that comes from being a perfectionist and wanting to give the fans the best performance he can. If he did not display that quality, one could possibly complain that he was sloppy. But he is always entertaining. As with any musician and their music, it is a matter of opinion of what tickles and lights up the area in your brain that gives you listening pleasure.
Yes, as the answer remains the same- it is indeed always a matter of taste. I just don't regard him as a blues player. He's more of a Joe Satriani style player than a Buddy Guy.
A Walk Down Memory Lane: The Houses of the Holy
in Led Zeppelin Master Forum
Posted
Reggie, please tell me..how good was this show?