No offense, ledhed, but a statement like the one I bolded makes you sound like an elitist snob. What, the only good concerts are the ones mrLedhed considers good? Gimme a fuckin' break...I was not aware that all of a sudden you've become the Final Authority on these things... Bootleggers = necessary evil, get it right...you do realize that if it weren't for bootleggers we wouldn't have a lot of the unofficial recordings we all know and love, yeah? Otherwise, if you consider bootleggers so bad, I suggest that you take all of the recordings you own that were first circulated by bootleggers and burn them- I guarantee you yer collection will be a helluva lot smaller if you take bootleggers out of the equation...

Sure they would They have...it doesn't happen all the time, mind ya, but tapes have been traded/sold and then resold to bootleggers in the past. No offense, but you'd have to be pretty fuckin' naive to think that some collectors' intentions are totally pure. I am betting those '75 and '77 soundboards don't come cheap... But you are correct, some hoarders hoard their recordings just so the tapes don't fall into the hands of bootleggers.

Oh yeah, because you can just tell the 'traders' who own all these 1975 and 1977 soundboards we've seen pop up over the years were in so much of a hurry to distribute them to the masses without the help of EVSD, etc I'd suggest you read Bootleg: The Secret History Of The Other Recording Industry by Clinton Heylin some time (if you haven't already)...the original tapers who started this little cottage industry over fourty years ago weren't exactly doing it to, like, 'share the tooonz, maaaaan'...they were taping them shows because they knew there was money in it! And you better believe some of those guys were fuckin' rolling in it before too long. Sure, traders have shared out a lot of previously uncirculated audience recordings over they years without the assistance of bootleg companies (and more often than not ended up having their tapes bootlegged eventually anyway), but I'd be brazen to say that for every recording that is being shared out there's one being hoarded...don't hold any illusions that tapers and so-called traders can't be as greedy as bootleg labels. Ask yerself: how often do you see a new previously uncirculated soundboard recording come out through kindhearted 'traders'? Answer: hardly ever. I can guarantee you that if the Pontiac '77 pro shot exists (or any of the other pro shot concerts we've seen mentioned in this discussion) it's ain't gonna make it out to the masses through kind, well meaning tape traders. No, we'll see it come out through EVSD or Godfather or some bootleg label because the people who actually possess these films know goddamn well what they are worth, and fuckin' A, they're gonna get whatever they can for them. And ya know, ya can't really fault them for that. These guys aren't schmucks; they're not dumb by any stretch of the imagination. As much as I'd love to believe that the music trading community (online or otherwise) is all about sharing, friendliness and kindness to their fellow man/woman, the harsh reality has been that that usually isn't the case. The amount of backstabbing, double dealing, and misrepresentation that goes on is actually pretty sick. As 'evil' as bootleg companies can be, the worst tape trading stories I've heard of over the years had nothing to do with bootleggers. As I said earlier, bootleggers are a necessary evil when it comes to unofficial live music, they're a business like any other, and run off of supply and demand like any other business.

Hence why the bootleg companies are a 'necessary evil', as it were...EVSD in particular must have some heavy connections since they're the ones who tend to come out with these new soundboards first it seems...

Actually I was being sarcastic with my "must see!" remark...but only a little bit. Every time I hear the Tempe recording it just reinforces my belief that the reputation of the performance as "Zeppelin's Worst Concert" is a tad much...and generally held by those who have never actually heard the show, I'd reckon. Between myself and others here I think we've done our bit to sort of give some true perspective on the gig. If not for Plant's voice being in horrible shape, it's not that bad of a show considering that it sounds like it was a rowdy audience and the band was very late getting onstage, necessitating a few shortcuts here and there. That's all based on the audience tape, of course -as mediocre as it is (it's the only recording I own where I actually had to tweak it before I could actually listen to the whole thing; my remaster circulates and I'm pretty sure it was used as the basis for the Pride Of Chelsea boot that just came out)- I bet seeing a pro shot video of the Tempe performance would be very revealing, and not just to hear the first seven songs (missing on the audience tape). Who knows...maybe we'll get the soundboard one o' these days...for me that would be a must hear, and no sarcasm this time...

There are also pro shot videos from Aerosmith's 1977 Houston appearance as well as Crosby, Stills and Nash from the same year (and, yeah, soundboards and videos for both gigs circulate, see below) Aerosmith: CSN:

I've been saying for years that there is probably a large amount of 1977 soundboards in existence not unlike 1975...I'm sure we'll see all of em pop up in drabs and drabs over the next few years...hopefully including some of the shows there are no corresponding audience recordings for (Houston '77 being a good example; there was no audience tape but there was a soundboard)

Woo hoo! A Tempe '77 Pro Shot!!! That's a real must see!!!! :lol: Seriously, though...there is a member of the forum named The Rover who attended the Houston '77 show who has stated here on more than one occasion that there were no video screens at the Summit like there were at the Pontiac Silverdome or at the Kingdome in Seattle...The Rover said that there were no cameramen on the stage at all, for that matter. So I'd imagine based on that 'eyewitness account' that a Houston '77 pro shot existing has more or less been debunked. There was a 1st generation version of the recording used for the common boot (Hot Rods In Pontiac) circulated a couple years back that is vastly superior to the bootleg CD...presumably yer LP boot used the same superior source (the 1st gen is a definite improvement over HRIP; it sounds like a completely different recording except it's not- the Hot Rods boot was clearly overprocessed, which is nothing unusual when it comes to bootleg companies...)

Indeed, and the audience tape proves this- STH was only played once (it was only ever played once) and the audience is going fuckin' bananas before the band even starts playing. Plant has to do a lot of crowd control on the night, and does an admirable job considering he's dealing with 70000+ looney Zeppelin fans, and incredibly, the band doesn't sound the least bit distracted by the crowd (unlike in Louisville five days before). It's almost like a cliche now, but where's the fucking VIDEO???!!!

For me, "Slow Dancer" is THE song on Pictures At Eleven. I could have seen Led Zeppelin doing that one, easily. For that matter, I don't know how many times I've played P@11 for people over the years and they automatically thought it was Zeppelin. On the whole it sounds pretty Zeppelinish to me, and a lot more convincing than when Robert conciously started aping Zeppelin on Now And Zen. I wasn't as impressed with The Principle Of Moments. Deduct a point for Phil Collins just having to bring in his Roland Drum Machine for "Fat Lip", though. Otherwise Phil does a pretty good Bonham impersonation throughout the album. Robbie Blunt kicks ass! Other than Jimmy, Blunt is easily the best guitarist Plant has worked with. Too bad that partnership fizzled after Shaken And Stirred. What's Mr Blunt doing these days, anyway?

He takes a while to get going on the 27th, but I reckon he's in 'stumblefingers' mode on the 25th as well. Hey, it's Jimmy Page in 1977...I think he legally had his middle name changed from Patrick to Stumblefingers for a time there When all is said and done 6-27 is my favourite of the LA '77 shows as well. I also love the vibe, and the epic scale of the show (it is Zeppelin's longest performance after all) And, for my money 6-27 has the best acoustic set of the whole tour! Not to mention Plant constantly ribbing Jonesy about the "Strawberry Tart" Think I'll put it on right now, actually...we're going out this evening, but maybe I'll have time to play the whole fucking show before we go...

Busted out my ol' vinyl For Badgeholders Only for the 35th anniversary...still sounds pretty fuckin' good after all these years (the show kicks major ass as well!)

BATON ROUGE, FEBRUARY 28, 1975. AUDIENCE. FUCKING CRANKED. R.I.P. Freezer.

If you liked the raw ALS clip, you'll like this one even better, uploading at 'ten cents a pound' as we speak. For the 'torrentially challenged', shoot me a PM.

...So of course I ended up doing the patching work on the fucker anyway! As I told my missus, who was sitting across the room from me, trying not to go completely insane from hearing the ending of "In My Time Of Dying", "Going To California" and "Bron Y Aur Stomp" over and over again, "It's a labour of love, darling!"

Thanx for the 'seal of approval', Jabe. The vocals, in particular, really come through on this recording. I too was surprised... I'd put the sound quality as below the "Out Of The Way" source (Jabe's is mono, for one thing) but way ahead of the old "Dixie" recording. It sounds like it was recorded on the floor and fairly close to the stage, whereas the other two Birmingham recordings sound like they were recorded further up ("Dixie" sounds like it was taped from the fucking nosebleeds!). There are some 'tape issues' during the acoustic set, though nothing too major. Considering 8 track tapes were used, I've heard worse recordings from that era captured on standard cassettes (though the recording equipment itself is a big factor as well, of course). I think I was mainly surprised at the completeness of the recording; there are a handful of cuts (the endings of IMTOD, Going To California and BYAS are missing) but otherwise it's all there. But, no, I have no plan on patching the cuts, that's too much hard work LOL. I must admit that after all this, plus doing my 'matrix' using the other two sources, even as a '77 freak I think I've heard the Birmingham show enough times to last a lifetime! Jabe and I will be keeping y'all posted (no pun intended)...

That is a straight transfer, Major. Jabe sent me a copy of the recording to do some work on it. I have since speed/pitch corrected it as well as added some much needed EQ. Until I receive further instructions from Jabe in regard to sharing out the recording (such as torrenting it, etc) that is all I am at liberty to say.

As Rick James would undoubtedly say, "Cocaine's a hell of a drug!!!" Seriously, though- I reckon the reason I prefer the 1980 ALS over '77 is in '80 it was played a bit closer to the tempo of the studio version. Sometimes in '77 ALS seemed a little too fast, and tended to be kinda sloppy as a result. YMMV.

...And that's what I get for standing in the kitchen making a sandwich while "Achilles Last Stand" was playing...on further inspection, there is a cut (boy do I feel fucking stupid!), during the last verse (after 'All the heavens from the Earth...' about eight minutes in), it misses the final "Ah-ah-ah" section. I know this because I decided after all to make a 'definitive' Birmingham show patching the OOTW recording with the inferior "Dixie" source...thanks, bam4k, you set me off on that one! It'll be for my own personal enjoyment, mind you, but in the end I had to try it out, 'cos that show kicks ass!

Like I said, I didn't notice one on the OOTW recording, I was mistaken. We'll try and keep our fingers crossed on that score, old sport...

On further inspection, I didn't notice a cut in ALS- my mistake.While I was listening to "Out Of The Way" Sunday evening I actually considered for all of thirty seconds patching the gaps in the OOTW source with "Dixie" but decided not to because it would be a real pain to do, and I just don't have the time or patience. For one thing, the cuts are minor; for another thing the two sources run at slightly different speeds ("Dixie" is a bit faster), and for me it's just not worth the time...frankly I'm sorta surprised nobody else has ever tried, or maybe they just said "Fuck it!" like I did...patching and speed correcting a recording is very intricate and time consuming work.

I'm listening to the "Out Of The Way" recording right now, I'm listening to the "Out Of The Way" source right now, it sounds better than I remembered...stereo recording, and it has that 'indoor arena' sound to it. I take it the cuts and whatnot you are talking about are on this new third source (on OOTW the only cut I notice in NQ is during the piano solo, and it seems minor)

^^^ LOL, you were saying, Jabe?

I'm more inclined to think that the guys who taped the April 28th show were more taking the piss than anything else. It is a good show indeed; the dudes who taped it were just in, ahem, high spirits on the night, I'd reckon. But, even as a '77 fanatic I agree with Strider. The way they designed the setlist, with the drum and noise solos back to back killed any sort of momentum they'd got going over the previous two hours. Especially when you consider the audience had just sat through ten or fifteen minutes of "White Summer/Black Mountain Side", which IMO is just more guitar wankery (especially in '77 and onward when Page was too smacked out to have the chops to pull it off without it sounding like shit), even if it does have the context of being like an 'extended' intro to "Kashmir". But I've always looked upon the Noise Solo as being a serious fucking mistake anyway- if Jimmy had done a little five minute bow guitar piece as an intro to "Achilles Last Stand" it would have worked much better (compare the '77 Noise Solo to his 1979 intros to "In The Evening"). Ever tried playing a '77 show when you've got a gathering of people around, i.e. a party or something? By the time you get to that part of the show it doesn't work...I always end up getting somebody complaining or requesting I change the tunes, and I can understand why. Unless yer into drums or "Noise", they don't make for casual listening on a regular basis. Within the context of the actual concert, maybe, but I bet the bathrooms and concessions were pretty busy during that point. Even with the funky laser pyramid, etc, ten minutes or more of Jimmy Page making squealing noises is something to filed under "What the hell was he thinking?" Did he seriously think 20000 paying fans wanted to hear THAT when they could have played two or three actual SONGS in its place? John Paul Jones tickling the ivories for seven or eight minutes during "No Quarter" actually sort of made sense within the context of the song. The Noise Solo, not so much- they might as well have just played "Dazed And Confused" if Page wanted an audience pleasing vehicle for his gimmickry. Even when it comes to self indulgence, you gotta draw the line somewhere...