Richie Blackmore about You Really Got me and Page's other session work

[zeppphead]

Guitar Player-When did you get your first fuzz-box?

Ritchie Blackmore-Around 1960 I used to have push about 30 wattstrough a three-inch speaker. But I'd have to kickthe speaker in until I got a fuzz-box sound. I triedgetting a real fuzz-box made up in about 1956. I toldsome electricians that I wanted a contraption to controlfuzz and sustain, to overload the amp. But it's funny,the electricians said they were trying to get away fromdistortion. They just wouldn't have it. They thought Iwas stupid. Twelve years ago Jimmy Page had a volumepedal for violin sounds. But Big Jim Sullivan wasactually the first person in England to use a volumepedal. But "You Really Got Me," by the Kinks wasJimmy Page because Jon Lord, our organ player, playedpiano on that session and Dave Davies was nowhere tobeen seen.

But Jimmy used to run around telling everyonethat he played on certain records. I asked him if heplayed on "The Crying Game" -that was Dave Berry- and"My Baby Left Me." He said,"Yes,I played guitar on that."What he didn't say was that he played rhythm guitar onit.

Big Jim Sullivan played the solo on "The Crying Game."He was livid when he heard what Jimmy was runningaround saying, because Jimmy had always used his guitar andeverything. Jimmy played rhythm guitar because the leadguitar bit was a reading part and Jimmy couldn't read.

Jon Lord about Led Zeppelin and You Really Got Me:

Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin ruled the hard-rock world back in the early seventies. Was there any rivalry between the two bands?

No, each band was different. Zeppelin cornered the sex-symbol angle,with Robert Plant being so damn good-looking, and they had more of ablues-based side than us. We were more of a heavy-rock band. Robertstill calls us with his tongue firmly in his cheek, Deep Sabbath.Although there was no rivalry between us, we were a bit jealous oftheir initial success. If Purple would have stayed together, we mighthave achieved the same mid-seventies status that they did. Theyembraced the arena rock ’! n roll show with open arms, whereas wedidn’t embrace it quite so completely. We were a touch weary of arenasbecause we had spent so much time in the 4,000 seaters, and we wereever so comfortable in those halls. That was the kind of hall in whichMade In Japan was made.

Are there any other jams that stand out?

There’s been so many. I played with Kinks several times. I even playedthe piano on “You Really Got Me.” I was paid five pounds for it. Theguitar solo was played by Jimmy Page, but the Kinks have denied it.

[SteveAJones]

Jon Lord about Led Zeppelin and You Really Got Me:

Are there any other jams that stand out?

There’s been so many. I played with Kinks several times. I even playedthe piano on “You Really Got Me.” I was paid five pounds for it. The guitar solo was played by Jimmy Page, but the Kinks have denied it.

Not only The Kinks, but Jimmy Page himself has denied it:

"I didn't play on 'You Really Got Me' and that's what pisses him (Ray Davies) off." -- Jimmy Page, 1977

Rock historian and author Doug Hinman makes a case that the rumour was begun and fostered by the established UK Rhythm and Blues community, many of whose members were resentful that an upstart band of teenagers such as the Kinks could produce such a powerful and influential blues-based recording, seemingly out of nowhere.Davies says that there was a session guitarist doubling his rhythm part, but that it wasn't Page. Interestingly, both Jon Lord and Shel Talmy have claimed Jimmy Page did play on "You Really Got Me". Talmy credits him for the rhythm guitar and Lord for the solo.

This from an interview with Shel Talmy:

I've asked the members of Spectropop, a '60s music forum, for questions they wanted me to ask you. The most unusual one, "Does Jimmy Page really have cloven hooves?"

[laughs] And a tail!!

Seriously, can you finally put an end to the Jimmy Page controversy?

[laughs] You mean did he play the solo on "You Really Got Me"? I've only been asked that about 5,000 times!

How does someone in your position convince an artist to let a session player come in a play a solo instead of them?

Because he didn't! Jimmy played rhythm guitar, because Ray Davies didn't want to sing and play guitar at the same time. It's as simple as that. Dave played all the solos, and is an extremely good guitarist. He's way underrated - no one ever talks about him as a guitarist.

Do you think Dave aspired to play better knowing that Jimmy was waiting in the wings?

That's not true - it never came up! Jimmy was there strictly to play rhythm guitar. When I did the first album, I had John Lord playing organ, no one's ever said, "Why'd you get John Lord in?" The drummer we used wasn't Mick Avory, it was Bobby Graham, 'cause they didn't have a drummer at the time. Why don't people ask me that for God's sakes?!

[kaiser]

Jimmy Page has acknowledged that he's played on some Kinks songs but never said he played on "You Really Got Me". The Edge even asks him during IMGL about "YRGM" & Page just says he did some Kinks work while not elaborating further. Page said he didn't play on "YRGM" in 1977 so I think that's the last word on the subject. People who also played on those Kinks sessions for "YRGM" may have gotten his other work with the Kinks confused during that period, especially if a band is laying down a few songs a session. Regardless all Page usually did was just add rhythm to the songs, it's not like he wrote the riff to "I Can't Explain" for example which he did play on. That's Townshend's song, he wrote it, played the main riff, played the lead, & Page just strengthend up it's rhythm, that's all. I think people usually overstate his contributions to his session work. He was mainly a hired hand who usually had little freedom to expand on the song he was paid to play on.

[zeppphead]

Pagey's actually played on You Really Got Me. Shel Talmy (producer), Jon Lord (keyboardist) and several others have acknowledged this. As session musicians were not quite allowed to reveal information to the press, he, being modest, has denied playing on the track while giving interviews.

Pagey was, is, will be such a gentleman.

[zeppphead]

Yeah rhythm on A-side "I Can't Explain" and lead on B-side "Bald headed woman".

[Swede]

I think people usually overstate his contributions to his session work. He was mainly a hired hand who usually had little freedom to expand on the song he was paid to play on.

You took the words out of my mouth. That's my opinion too.

[kaiser]

I don't think Page was being a gentleman about it for the sake of being a gentleman as he acknowledges what he has played on session wise & he gets pissed when he isn't acknowledged for something he has done. Point in case "Beck's Bolero". Beck for years said he wrote it, the concept of the song was his, & that Page unfairly takes credit for it. In 1977, the same year Page said he didn't play on "You Really Got Me", Page said in regards to "Beck's Bolero" that he wrote it, arranged it, played on it, produced it, & didn't care what Beck had to say about it to the contrary. Jeff Beck was/is his friend & if Page is going to take the gentleman's approach I think he'd sooner do it with Beck than an acquaintance like Ray Davies. Regardless, at the moment I'm listening to "You Really Got Me" from a 1964 BBC session & there is practically zero difference between the studio version & this version which Ray & Dave Davies most definately play on. At the end of the day it's Ray Davies song & his riff. Consequently the writing credit for "Beck's Bolero" solely states "Page".

[zeppphead]

So why'd they (Jon Lord, Blackmore and Talmy) be interested in giving Pagey the credit?

[SteveAJones]

So why'd they (Jon Lord, Blackmore and Talmy) be interested in giving Pagey the credit?

I don't think they are necessarily interested in giving Page credit, I think their recollections are inaccurate and have most likely confused another session with that one. Blackmore wasn't there so he is merely regurgitating either what Lord (or someone else) told him or he read after the fact.

IMHO, a better question to ask is why would Jimmy flatly deny having any involvement? I don't think it has a thing to do with professional courtesy, I think he is simply speaking the truth (unless he is the one who has

an inaccurate recollection) and as someone pointed out, the live version without Page sounds like the studio

version.

[Swede]

^^ Yes, and Page must have made hundreds of sessions back then, so it's no wonder if people get confused and mix up some of them..

[zeppphead]

Lord (or someone else) told him

Doug Hinman (musician, music historian, researcher & author of Kinks discography) also denies the involvement of Jon Lord!!!! Here is the complete personnel according to him:

• Ray Davies: lead vocal, harmonica
• Dave Davies: lead guitar, backing vocal
• Pete Quaife: bass guitar, backing vocal
• Bobby Graham: drums
• Unknown rhythm guitar player [not Page]
• Arthur Greenslade on piano
• Mick Avory on tambourine

LOL! Someday Kinks will deny the production credit of Talmy, too.

Dave Davies

Was a quick learner....

[Swede]

Was a quick learner....

I think Dave Davies was a great guitarist from the beginning with Kinks. Most difference between the early r'n'b of the band and the rougher YRGM, lies mainly in production and arrangement. The guitar on YRGM is louder and more distorted.

[zeppphead]

Talmy, Talmy, Talmy's the answer,

Jimmy was the player and a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyukCzs51H4...

[Otto Masson]

When Blackmore comments in this kind of spirit, one shouldn't take it too seriously - might be just a practical joke on his part, and very likely is. He has on other occasions made perfectly clear that he respects Jimmy a great deal - as guitarist and songwriter, but especially as a producer and band leader.

Jimmy's early single "She Just Satisfies" was definitely a nod in the direction of The Kinks's song. it's doubtful that Jimmy's song was done in a serious kind of mood, but still, Jimmy's motive at the time is not at all clear. Was he taking the piss, for some reason?

I think we should be wary of too much generalization about the session period. Often enough it was a case of "the hired hand" and little or nothing else, but quite often there was scope for creative contributions (and of course there were the opportunities to work with interesting bands and musicians). He stopped doing the sessions when he felt it was becoming too much of a hired hand kind of thing - he has described his motive at the time very consistently over the years. It was an apprenticeship, as he likes to put it.

[SteveAJones]

Jimmy's early single "She Just Satisfies" was definitely a nod in the direction of The Kinks's song. it's doubtful that Jimmy's song was done in a serious kind of mood, but still, Jimmy's motive at the time is not at all clear. Was he taking the piss, for some reason?

I think we should be wary of too much generalization about the session period. Often enough it was a case of "the hired hand" and little or nothing else, but quite often there was scope for creative contributions (and of course there were the opportunities to work with interesting bands and musicians). He stopped doing the sessions when he felt it was becoming too much of a hired hand kind of thing - he has described his motive at the time very consistently over the years. It was an apprenticeship, as he likes to put it.

"Concerning the Kinks' work, my presence there was to enable—I gather, looking at it in retrospect—Ray Davies to walk around and virtually control everything without having to be down in the studio all the time, because he was really producing those things as much as Shel Talmy. A lot more so, actually, because he was directing it and everything. At one point there were even three guitars playing the same riff."

"I was involved in the old Richmond and Eel Pie Island sets—well, I used to play at those jazz clubs where the Kinks played and I'd always been in groups around the Kingston area. Kingston and Richmond were the two key places, really, but by that time I was well into the Marquee. It was a good scene then because everyone had this same upbringing and had been locked away with their records, and there was something really new to offer. It just exploded from there."

As a matter of historical trivia, Page released a solo single during 1965. "There's nothing to be said for that record except it was very tongue-in-cheek at the time. I played all the instruments on it except for the drums and sang on it too, which is quite, uh...unique. 'She Just Satisfies,' that's what it was called. It's better forgotten."

-- Jimmy Page, Creem Magazine interview with Nick Kent published in May 1974

[zeppphead]

"She Just Satisfies"

Pagey was just having some fun with Jackie DeShannon

[kaiser]

I think Page's session work can be broken down into 3 stages: 1) as a hired gun playing what he's told 2) as the in house guitarist & producer for Immediate Records 3) post Yardbirds pre Zeppelin.

In his role as a hired gun I think more or less he would just strengthen up the sound of whatever song he was playing whether it was with the Who & Kinks or with Shirley Bassey & Tom Jones. Pretty much just raking out chords where his individuallity really wasn't allowed to shine through. With his work on Immediate I imagine Andrew Loog Oldham gave Page more freedom. I can listen to Marianne Faithfull's "Come Stay With Me" & Nico's "The Last Mile" & hear things that sound not dissimilar to parts of "Tangerine" & the acoustic rhythm track to "Over The Hills And Far Away". Page had recieved co-writing credits during his time at Immediate as well. He also did demos & played on sessions for Jagger/Richards songs that other artists recorded, notably Chris Farlowe who covered quite a few Stones songs. On the demo's Jagger would do a guide vocal for Farlowe to follow & Page would do the guitar work, sometimes these demo's were later released as Stones tracks even though Jagger was the only Stone on them but ABKCO was looking to cash in & call them Stones tracks after they were off that label. Finally there's Page's work post Yardbirds & pre Zeppelin, or just when they had just formed. At this point not only does he have his session guitarist reputation but he's also finally a name guitarist from a reputed band. If you listen to the opening to Joe Cocker's "With A Little Help From My Friends" that's the Page style of guitar playing he's known for. He went back & did some sessions to finance the coming of Zeppelin & I think he probably had his greatest session work freedom with Cocker, Donovan, & PJ Proby.