Bert jansch influence on Jimmy page's

[Strider]

I'm not with you on the simon le bon connection but the rest I agree.

The person who influenced Bert the most was Davy Graham.He was more important really, as without him there'd be no Bert as we knew him.A lot of people think that' Angie' was a Bert original,which of course it wasn't,it was a Davy Graham piece . He pretty much started world music in the early 60's. Everyone was playing skiffle music but Davy was off in the middle East and India etc discovering music that no one in the west has really heard before.The DADGAD tuning was derived from the modal instrument style of play from that part of the world. Shame he spent a lot of his latter years penniless,living in a bed sit. Often the way with pioneers .

Davy Graham is THE BOSS of 1960s English folk guitar.

Not that I am saying Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, and others aren't great in and of themselves...but it ALL sprang from Davy Graham. He was the well they all drew from.

I wrote a thing about Davy Graham years ago, but I couldn't find it here so it must have been on the old Electric-Magic forums.

I cannot imagine anyone here that is of a certain age that DOESN'T have Davy's "The Guitar Player" and "Folk, Blues and Beyond" albums. They are the mainstays of any decent record collection. So, all you youngens out there that don't have any Davy in your iPod or whatever, you need to rectify that deficiency, PRONTO!

Oh, and Davy's collaboration with the great Shirley Collins "Folk Roots, New Routes", is also a must-have.

[finches]

I'll second that strider.I've met a few people who knew Davy,very interesting and wonderfully excentric genius by all accounts.

How interesting what you say about simon Le Bon,Robert Anthony II.Never knew that, just goes to show how wide his influence was.

[emrys]

I've read a few threads like this one, and what always amazes me is the antipathy toward Bert Jansch - it seems you are either in the Jimmy Page/Blackmountain side camp, or the Bert Jansch/Blackwaterside camp. You always see comments like '......all the acknowledgment that Jansch deserved, considering that Jansch did not write the song, did not copyright his arrangement, and "borrowed" most....etc.' which lead me to this conclusion.

But they're not mutually exclusive, you can like both guitarists and both versions of the same song - I do. Bert Jansch did influence Jimmy an awful lot, something JP has acknowledged numerous times. Jimmy was clearly a huge fan.

As for the song itself, surely there can be no doubt as to the origins of either Bert's or Jimmy's version by now can there?

[luvlz2]

The Song Was So Good, Jimmy Page 'Borrowed' It

Bert Jansch's approach to a traditional folk song is on full display in this recording of "Blackwaterside," made during a show at London's 12 Bar and originally released in 1995. It's an approach the Scottish singer-guitarist developed in the early 1960's; one that was more about evoking the mood and feel of a song than a slavish devotion to historical interpretation.

Jansch slurs and swallows the words in a style that owes as much to jazz improvisation -- something that would come out even more dramatically in the group he co-founded in the late '60's, Pentangle -- as it does traditional folk. You have to listen carefully to follow the story, told in the voice of a young woman spurned by a deceitful lover. But Jansch's guitar arrangement makes it truly stand out. He ditches a standard chordal accompaniment and brings his percussive, fingerpicked inventions to the fore -- almost on equal footing with the words.

Jansch first recorded "Blackwaterside" for his third album, Jack Orion, in 1966. Even back then, the guitar part was so distinctive that Jimmy Page picked up on it -- almost note for note -- for his instrumental "Black Mountain Side." on Led Zeppelin's 1969 debut, without giving credit. With this new vinyl reissue of Live At The 12 Bar, out August 7 on Earth Recordings, listeners can hear Bert Jansch's unique guitar and voice, unfiltered.

http://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2015/06/02/411486542/the-song-was-so-good-jimmy-page-borrowed-it?utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+npr%2FUzQZ+%28NPR+Topics%3A+Music+Interview%29&utm_source=feedburner

[Mithril46]

Another great to check out is John Renbourn, who Page has mentioned sometimes(Renbourn was in Pentangle). Absolutely Page

nicked stuff note for note from Jansch. But I must mention that there are so many live versions where Page does go into his own

thing, not just the RAH version that is very heavily plagiarized. Also Graham, Jansch, and particularly Renbourn actually played

a lot of stuff that Page couldn't steal, simply because it technically was very advanced.

If Page put aside electric playing and just practiced fingerpicking, yes he could play the very complex stuff. But of course Page is

the 360 degrees of guitar playing, not a narrow niche player.