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Mithril46

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About Mithril46

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    Zep Head

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  1. Sounds good but I'm not convinced that artistically the U.S 80' tour would have been a slam dunk. Certainly all the shows would be instant sell-outs and U.S. fans would go berserk at the shows.. But Jimmy and Bonzo were not up to the task, unless someone knows something I don't. And Robert needed a ton of convincing before he even to that relatively modest Ist leg 18 date tour was ready to go. And being that the set list appeared(?!?!) to be probably almost exact to the 80' Over Europe Tour, not a good sign. Carouselambra for example was AFAIK not absolutely going to be played, nor a bunch of previously unplayed studio tracks. Robert probably didn't care much, he was going to split anyway and Jimmy and Bonzo were too busy keeping their heads out of the water, let alone being able to transfer studio-only songs to live versions.
  2. Hold on, Isn't Jimmy singing on the chorus parts ? This whole thing is made very complicated because of all the remasters and remixes, Jimmy could well have either deleted his vocal or studio-pushed it into pitch. I'm a musician, at least to me if Plant is off , it's barely or he is out for 1/2 a second if that climbing to the "proper" pitch. Remember that done properly being out of pitch just a smudge could add personality to a track. Back then Robert's voice had tremendous range and I can't imagine Tangerine being hard for him to nail.
  3. I probably will piss people off but that 80' tour, sorry but that's not really Led Zeppelin as I knew it. They tried to adapt to a really changed music atmosphere with punk and new wave slowly pushing out the jamming and "show off" musicianship of many bands of the 70's. But the enormous problem( or attempted approach) of playing shorter songs with far more energy was mostly unsuccessful. Jones was fine, Plant excellent at quite a few points, but Bonham and Page, Bonham probably more so, just didn't have the stamina or ability to summon THE HAMMER OF THE GODS. As freewheeling as the 77' tour was, the band could still play great, although below par shows were becoming too frequent. Certainly some 80' shows were pretty good , and Page played some really wild stuff on the solos for Trampled. I understand that someone mentioned well the 80' tour is part of the band's story, yes, but the band very early tours, there was plenty of punk energy to go around, Of course high musicianship and slightly bluesy part of the picture. But I never really heard any of that energy on that 80' tour. Actually the 7/24 Copenhagen 79' show has some of that , funny enough. The band should have gone on hiatus, after ?? or before Knebworth. After Page and Bonham got cleaned up, then venture out again. Actually not sure if that would have worked. I'm a 80' shunner, but not a hater. It just sounds SO different than any other difference between other Zep tours, at least in a downhill spiral way. Although the 80' tour was a bit more consistent than 77', but that's not saying much......
  4. I'll get the link but of course this should be the first boot a Zep newbie to boots should first hear. Maybe we live in a dry, technical repetitive world, but this show stands among the pyramids. When Zep played like this, all natural laws of any sort vanished and you were experiencing a truly magical universe. Page and Bonham are playing in a almost telepathic interlock playing guitar and drum patterns never heard before or since. People and fans crave this stuff, this is also why it doesn't matter that much that maybe overall Zep could be erratic live. No other band could hit earth-shattering bullseyes like this. Now I shut up and listen to "my" version.
  5. Yeah, 80' that tour had some big cracks, and technology still couldn't quite convince. Don't want to get any further, there are other threads detailing all this on the 80' tour. Although Robert's overall singing IMO on the 80' tour was hardly weak, but he was even onstage making comments or cryptic sayings about his weariness about singing some songs. Possibly the effects were used to prop up songs Robert no longer wanted to sing ??? Maybe not, but remember the cocktail lounge versions of SIBLY and unenthusiastic renderings of Stairway.
  6. Yeah, the slap back. Just like the harmonizer started in 77', sometimes it worked, sometimes not. All subjective, but just like Jonesey's 80 keyboard sound and Page's more distorted 80' guitar sound, these things as well seemed rather random.
  7. It's cool that the many fans on this thread are so enamored by the companion discs. Unfortunately, many defunct or even still rolling bands have much more comprehensive and varied box sets than Zep's. I do find some of the companion material interesting, but coming from possibly the greatest rock band ever, the releases are quite stark for me overall. Regular CD's are barely sold anymore, but box sets which have the regular release and then 3 or 4 companion discs focused mainly on the original release are very common these days. Look, Jimmy's getting older, but for these releases Jimmy should have hired some expert help, because I feel that the gold standard surrounding Zep releases has been damaged to an extent. Started with Mothership, then puzzling edits/decisions on remastered TSRTS, and so on.
  8. Well that middle section( both "departures) has always sounded to me like Zep got lost in some magical very dense forest, and Plant is the main "mystical" traveler. Totally subjective impression of the mellower part of the song. Whatever your interpretation, the song doesn't sound like anything else before or after, very creative.
  9. Interesting views, I always loved the song. Sure, the whole album is masterpiece, but I never saw FS as filler. I saw it as exotic hard rock with that dreamy, mysterious center section. I never understood why it wasn't played more live, the 71' Copenhagen version seemed to work pretty well.
  10. Great that you are attempting something like this. But, as you said, all can change depending on different parts of the song, It's not just WHAT remaster. This stuff can obviously get tremendously complicated. Although the releases are official, think about the boot remasters !!! Distortions, clipping, one instrument dominance are dialed/EQ'ed out, and despite a cleaner and more balanced result, the bite of the band can be diminished as well. To be fair, this stuff is rough going, even your interesting comparisons, which I haven't seen before.
  11. Some interesting points. As opposed to the bands you mentioned, in Zep Jimmy was really the boss of the board. Perhaps other band members had some say or suggestions, but the buck stopped with Jimmy in the studio, practically from the start to the final mix down of ITTOD. I think this helped the band immensely, because except for a few tracks on Zep l, the band really never had a dated sound. Go back to the 70's, a lot of no.1 hits even , they sound dated. Jimmy made sure the production would sound as transparent as possible. Or if he wanted a dense production, it would sound unlike anything you've ever heard. Kashmir, with all the keys and Arabic instrumentation, was not like anything heard before, certainly not "Rock".
  12. Well that is certainly part of the function of a producer. But actually depending on the artist and what the producer is "known" to do, there is tremendous variation. Jimmy was quite assertive in the studio, and even though he may have utilized Eddie Kramer or Glyn Johns on an album, you re not talking about many top 40 "commercial" artists where the record company literally insists on using a certain producer. Also, quite a few Hip/Hop and Rap producers in fact are well known for their prowess with certain pieces of music technology. All I'm saying really is that a producer can have many functions. As far as Zep goes, yes their producer or so on was certainly used to capture a certain sound or vision, but Zep had the ultimate say over the final mix, blah, blah. Nobody was going to tell Jimmy Page that a certain song on one of their albums would be a terrible mistake, unlike a dictated producer chosen by the record company, different situations.
  13. I think Page doesn't really talk about production matters for various reasons.One is that very quickly you are heading into terms and lingo obscure to most of the public. Another is according to my understanding, Page usually worked with someone else, like Eddie Kramer for example, and it might get very complicated as far as Page trying to pinpoint exactly who was doing what at what time. Then apart from Jimmy always mentioning using recording techniques like ambient miking, He has sometimes in the past said that he has some recording/ production techniques which he discovered and does not feel these "secrets" need be divulged. This stuff is interesting, some have said Page by himself could not do all the recording/mixing//producing stuff from beginning to end, this muddies the waters a bit.
  14. Well that's something, but a far cry from Beck's past. If it wasn't Beck, not sure somebody else giving eight weeks notice would be hung out to dry. I saw two of those shows, they were pretty damn good with or without Beck. Had the two bands been far less accomplished, obviously ticket sales/vibe could be heavily compromised.
  15. Ah, some correction.....Beck absolutely to somewhere in the mid 70's was prone to very erratic behavior, Yes missing gigs, quitting in the middle of a gig, even leaving a tour. And that 84' Stewart tour, the plan was for Jeff to play with Stewart for a half hr. tops, Beck was not the "band" guitarist for the full show. Now you must do your contractual obligations. But, Beck got frustrated onstage, saying they were.just getting started, and then, suddenly, cut off. I'm not sure that Jimmy wouldn't do the same thing if he had a half hour slot with Robert and his band. Although it's somewhat different because Jeff and Rod together weren't really superstars even early on, whereas Robert would never have such an arrangement since his own material would seriously pale in comparison. Anyway, for a long time now Beck has had no troubles being a responsible pro musician. I've seen him 4 or 5 times, the only problem is he is either totally amazing or just not sparking.
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