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Mithril46

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About Mithril46

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    Zep Head

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  1. I have to differ. When Jimmy was in the Firm, both US tours, Jimmy was pretty erratic soloing, but strangely enough he didn't play sloppy at all on rhythm guitar or riffs. I saw him in 86' almost front row center, he was a bit bloated and likely very drunk. He actually looked somewhat dejected, and only smiled at the encores. But 88' Outrider was much different, there really weren't many bad shows, the shows I saw Jimmy had 90% of his technique back. Also not sloppy. For some strange reason many fans consider the Outrider tour and even the P/P shows as pretty bad regarding Jimmy's playing. Very odd, have any critics or fans actually listened to these shows ? The 98' P/P tour Jimmy played very close to his peak in Zep, but obviously it's not Zep. Also some people don't know or realize that Jimmy at times could be a very nervous person, and so nervous this could affect his performance. Hard to imagine, but true.
  2. This is a excellent topic. With many angles. One example, after 75', no more D&C. Perhaps the band grew tired of it, but it's also possible that Page was not up to it. At least the 25 min+ versions. And then songs that were attempted live but were shadows of the studio versions.Dancing Days, The Ocean( sometimes good, but overall not jelling), When The Levee Breaks, The Wanton Song,,Four Sticks,etc. It's also so interesting that with an elaborate stage presentation, starting much stronger in 75', the song selection simply had to be locked in pretty strongly. I think that before 73' things were far more fluid and you never knew what was coming, even though back then there were setlists as well, but not hammered down like 77' for example. As a side note I always thought the 80' Europe tour could have had much better song choices. But Jimmy and Bonzo, probably noticed by Plant and Jones, maybe simply weren't up to mastering other Zep tracks which weren't played live before. Well, that's my two cents.....
  3. Going again to JPJ, starting in the studio, Page could not have achieved what he did without JPJ. Each member totally indispensable, sure. But staring maybe 10-15 years ago, It really started to be known that stuff claimed by Page as his, JPJ actually contributed far more than is known. After Zep, Page had two things disappear which really showed up in his solo career. Bonham is the first thing, Bonham laid down a huge bed for Page to play in. Page struggled with this pretty much till the time until his by default retirement after the last Zep show in 07'. Then JPJ would fill in the blanks for many songs, and according to many sources Page rarely walked into the studio with a completel composition. Tunings are great creative tools, and I knew and played all the Zep tunes with tunings. The big problem is having to haul around 5-6 guitars because of the tunings. As far as composition, JIimmy said he talked or questioned many musicians about their creative process. He found out there isn't any set way. And Jimmy has said the same......no real rules. And yes Page mainly played an acoustic at home, often in alternate tunings.
  4. This for sure is a great book, many interesting gear revelations and for once Jimmy doesn't have that almost unshakeable guarded nature he is known for, although of course nothing controversial is approached. Unfortunately over the last 15-20 years. I've lost a certain amount of respect for Jimmy. Not really his lack of musical output( new music) but the many cheesy and sometimes astronomically priced media( books, CD's on the 3rd remaster, etc.). Well he got it right this time.
  5. There are a lot of odd things that Jimmy does, like even though Richard Cole wrote his Zep book, and Jimmy was pretty pissed about it, later Jimmy I guess forgot about the book and seemed to become a friend/acquaintance of Richard's. Earlier it was mentioned about all band members needing to vet any future Zep material and I really don't think Robert or JPJ care one bit about having to hassle about any Zep live or studio stuff. Also remember that many Zep bootheads ( Including myself) find Jimmy's whitewashed official live releases are so doctored they can almost sound like a different show. I mean, the Ocean from the 3 cd HTWWW Jimmy completely replaced the guitar solo. I have the two boots which comprise the 3 cd set, it is not a patched up solo, Page replaced the original solo, and it sounds rather strange because Jimmy never sounded like that in 72', so obviously he went into the studio and banged out the replaced solo, which is puzzling because the original cranks, although there are some fidelity problems. Whatever.
  6. Sounds good but I'm not convinced that artistically the U.S 80' tour would have been a slam dunk. Certainly all the shows would be instant sell-outs and U.S. fans would go berserk at the shows.. But Jimmy and Bonzo were not up to the task, unless someone knows something I don't. And Robert needed a ton of convincing before he even to that relatively modest Ist leg 18 date tour was ready to go. And being that the set list appeared(?!?!) to be probably almost exact to the 80' Over Europe Tour, not a good sign. Carouselambra for example was AFAIK not absolutely going to be played, nor a bunch of previously unplayed studio tracks. Robert probably didn't care much, he was going to split anyway and Jimmy and Bonzo were too busy keeping their heads out of the water, let alone being able to transfer studio-only songs to live versions.
  7. Hold on, Isn't Jimmy singing on the chorus parts ? This whole thing is made very complicated because of all the remasters and remixes, Jimmy could well have either deleted his vocal or studio-pushed it into pitch. I'm a musician, at least to me if Plant is off , it's barely or he is out for 1/2 a second if that climbing to the "proper" pitch. Remember that done properly being out of pitch just a smudge could add personality to a track. Back then Robert's voice had tremendous range and I can't imagine Tangerine being hard for him to nail.
  8. I probably will piss people off but that 80' tour, sorry but that's not really Led Zeppelin as I knew it. They tried to adapt to a really changed music atmosphere with punk and new wave slowly pushing out the jamming and "show off" musicianship of many bands of the 70's. But the enormous problem( or attempted approach) of playing shorter songs with far more energy was mostly unsuccessful. Jones was fine, Plant excellent at quite a few points, but Bonham and Page, Bonham probably more so, just didn't have the stamina or ability to summon THE HAMMER OF THE GODS. As freewheeling as the 77' tour was, the band could still play great, although below par shows were becoming too frequent. Certainly some 80' shows were pretty good , and Page played some really wild stuff on the solos for Trampled. I understand that someone mentioned well the 80' tour is part of the band's story, yes, but the band very early tours, there was plenty of punk energy to go around, Of course high musicianship and slightly bluesy part of the picture. But I never really heard any of that energy on that 80' tour. Actually the 7/24 Copenhagen 79' show has some of that , funny enough. The band should have gone on hiatus, after ?? or before Knebworth. After Page and Bonham got cleaned up, then venture out again. Actually not sure if that would have worked. I'm a 80' shunner, but not a hater. It just sounds SO different than any other difference between other Zep tours, at least in a downhill spiral way. Although the 80' tour was a bit more consistent than 77', but that's not saying much......
  9. I'll get the link but of course this should be the first boot a Zep newbie to boots should first hear. Maybe we live in a dry, technical repetitive world, but this show stands among the pyramids. When Zep played like this, all natural laws of any sort vanished and you were experiencing a truly magical universe. Page and Bonham are playing in a almost telepathic interlock playing guitar and drum patterns never heard before or since. People and fans crave this stuff, this is also why it doesn't matter that much that maybe overall Zep could be erratic live. No other band could hit earth-shattering bullseyes like this. Now I shut up and listen to "my" version.
  10. Yeah, 80' that tour had some big cracks, and technology still couldn't quite convince. Don't want to get any further, there are other threads detailing all this on the 80' tour. Although Robert's overall singing IMO on the 80' tour was hardly weak, but he was even onstage making comments or cryptic sayings about his weariness about singing some songs. Possibly the effects were used to prop up songs Robert no longer wanted to sing ??? Maybe not, but remember the cocktail lounge versions of SIBLY and unenthusiastic renderings of Stairway.
  11. Yeah, the slap back. Just like the harmonizer started in 77', sometimes it worked, sometimes not. All subjective, but just like Jonesey's 80 keyboard sound and Page's more distorted 80' guitar sound, these things as well seemed rather random.
  12. It's cool that the many fans on this thread are so enamored by the companion discs. Unfortunately, many defunct or even still rolling bands have much more comprehensive and varied box sets than Zep's. I do find some of the companion material interesting, but coming from possibly the greatest rock band ever, the releases are quite stark for me overall. Regular CD's are barely sold anymore, but box sets which have the regular release and then 3 or 4 companion discs focused mainly on the original release are very common these days. Look, Jimmy's getting older, but for these releases Jimmy should have hired some expert help, because I feel that the gold standard surrounding Zep releases has been damaged to an extent. Started with Mothership, then puzzling edits/decisions on remastered TSRTS, and so on.
  13. Well that middle section( both "departures) has always sounded to me like Zep got lost in some magical very dense forest, and Plant is the main "mystical" traveler. Totally subjective impression of the mellower part of the song. Whatever your interpretation, the song doesn't sound like anything else before or after, very creative.
  14. Interesting views, I always loved the song. Sure, the whole album is masterpiece, but I never saw FS as filler. I saw it as exotic hard rock with that dreamy, mysterious center section. I never understood why it wasn't played more live, the 71' Copenhagen version seemed to work pretty well.
  15. Great that you are attempting something like this. But, as you said, all can change depending on different parts of the song, It's not just WHAT remaster. This stuff can obviously get tremendously complicated. Although the releases are official, think about the boot remasters !!! Distortions, clipping, one instrument dominance are dialed/EQ'ed out, and despite a cleaner and more balanced result, the bite of the band can be diminished as well. To be fair, this stuff is rough going, even your interesting comparisons, which I haven't seen before.
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