The Mystery of Jimmy Page's 'Number Three' Gibson Les Paul

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

“This guitar has been repainted, appears to be a 1969 Les Paul Deluxe Goldtop, and has had the mini humbuckers replaced with regular humbuckers, which change the pitch of the B string via a hidden mechanism connected to the guitar's strap button. that changes the pitch of the B string.“-”The Jimmy Page Anthology.

“(5th US tour in '70) I bought this guitar from Mike Rudd in Memphis. He was involved in hot rods as well as guitars, so the finish on the guitar was a hot rod color. His uncle worked for Gibson and the guitar was assembled from various old and new parts. The neck was very easy to use. It was to receive a stringbender transformer, which was much better. It appears in the movie “THE SONG REMAINS THE SAME” in its pre-transformation state."-JIMMY PAGE

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DHD8tqCqsiUFtjp39

There are also theories that there are actually two red Les Pauls - with a clone of “Number Three” appearing in 1977.

「The story of the man who jammed with Led Zeppelin then sold Jimmy Page his most famous guitar.」

https://www.loudersound.com/features/the-story-of-the-man-who-jammed-with-led-zeppelin-then-sold-jimmy-page-his-most-famous-guitar

There does seem to be some credibility to this theory as photographic evidence does show some visual differences between the guitars, but the red Les Paul There does seem to be some credibility to this theory as photographic evidence does show some visual differences between the guitars, but the red Les Paul was so sparsely used during that era, it's very hard to tell.

After half a day of comparing video stills and photos collected from the internet, I noticed that certain parts of the guitars were different!

“The Les Paul in the '77 tour photo is shorter in this area, whereas the Les Paul known as NO.3, familiar from the 73 MSG, is longer in this area.”
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8o5Dmd1ST4wRjgB48

You can see the different lengths of the guitar neck fretboard up to the tip of the neck beyond the 22nd fret.

So what year was that made? It is a 1952 Les Paul.
The way to tell the difference is that the “binding” around the edge of the body is wider on the cutaway on the '69 Les Paul and thinner on the '52 Les Paul.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fC2m6C7xRyA/maxresdefault.jpg

This confirms theory that a “Number Three” clone existed for the 1977 tour only!

Edited July 21 by zoso_ledzep4_yy

[Ian Smith]

Can't help ya but damn I live for this stuff. Great post. 

[zeplz71]

Interesting!

is this the first time we see this guitar? Cleveland 70?

Edited July 21 by zeplz71

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

6 hours ago, zeplz71 said:

Interesting!

is this the first time we see this guitar? Cleveland 70?

August 26, 1970　Cleveland / United States / Public Auditorium

This is the oldest photo of the guitar that Jimmy purchased from Mike Rudd in Memphis during his 5th US tour, which later became the “number 3” Les Paul!

Edited July 21 by zoso_ledzep4_yy

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

September 9, 1970　Boston / United States / Boston Garden

Edited July 21 by zoso_ledzep4_yy

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

“In 1974, Michael Corby was living in London and putting together The Babys – the band that would bring John Waite to the world's attention – when he happened to cross paths with Led Zeppelin. Little did he know he’d end up selling his favourite guitar to the day’s biggest guitar hero. ”

that a “Number Three” clone existed for the 1977 tour only!

Oakland / United States / Alameda County Coliseum

July 23, 1977 (1st photo), July 24, 1977 (2nd photo)

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

For the '75 tour, the '59 Les Paul that was acquired just before the 1973 MSG show as a sub guitar was promoted to NO.2, and the metallic purple Les Paul familiar from the movie was demoted to NO.3, so it was never seen on the '75 tour.

 I thought that there was no other Les Paul used in the 1975 tour except “NO.1” and “NO.2”, but I found a photo of “Chicago 1975” on the right side of the stage, where Jimmy's guitar is waiting for him. I can see Les Pauls other than “no.1” and “no.2” in Jimmy's guitar standby on the right side of the stage.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qoXNKGmUw175F7YU7

I can't be sure because it is a distant shot, but I suspect this is either the NO.3 or the NO.3 clone that Jimmy purchased from Michael Corby in 1974.

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

「Performing at Madison Square Garden, New York, 7 June 1977」

The binding at the neck joint identifies this as a ‘50s Les Paul.

Edited July 24 by zoso_ledzep4_yy

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

21 hours ago, zoso_ledzep4_yy said:

「Performing at Madison Square Garden, New York, 7 June 1977」

The binding at the neck joint identifies this as a ‘50s Les Paul.

As the neck binding is still difficult to discern, it is better to judge by the length of the fingerboard (zero finger plate) from the 22nd fret towards the bridge!

Longer fingerboard from the 22nd fret towards the bridge - 1969 number 3 Les Paul.
Short fingerboard from the 22nd fret towards the bridge - number 3 Les Paul clone made in 1952.

[gibsonfan159]

The easiest difference for me to spot is that the #3 has a thick "pancake" body with a glue seam and the 77 guitar doesn't, it's very thin.

Edited July 28 by gibsonfan159

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

5 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

The easiest difference for me to spot is that the #3 has a thick "pancake" body with a glue seam and the 77 guitar doesn't, it's very thin.

I agree that is true. However...

The only photo of the Number 3 clone is of Jimmy playing the guitar in 1977, and even with the poor quality Seattle video stills, it is difficult to verify whether or not there are glued areas on the sides of the body. The number 3 clone is not even introduced in Jimmy's anthology, so currently the only way to verify this is with the final zero fret section.

The close-up shot of the final zero-fret section can be verified because the hand part during the guitar solo was taken in close-up as a video in both 1973 and 1977.　　

Professional photographers such as Neil Preston (as are we all...) are meant to photograph people, and never take partial close-up shots like this.

Edited July 28 by zoso_ledzep4_yy

[jsj]

Sorry for the sidetrack, but where did Page get the number 2 sunburst from? 

[gibsonfan159]

14 hours ago, zoso_ledzep4_yy said:

I agree that is true. However...

The only photo of the Number 3 clone is of Jimmy playing the guitar in 1977, and even with the poor quality Seattle video stills, it is difficult to verify whether or not there are glued areas on the sides of the body. The number 3 clone is not even introduced in Jimmy's anthology, so currently the only way to verify this is with the final zero fret section.

The close-up shot of the final zero-fret section can be verified because the hand part during the guitar solo was taken in close-up as a video in both 1973 and 1977.　　

Professional photographers such as Neil Preston (as are we all...) are meant to photograph people, and never take partial close-up shots like this.

There are plenty of 77 shots that clearly show the body not being a pancake body. 

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

29 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:

There are plenty of 77 shots that clearly show the body not being a pancake body. 

I am not doubting you! The third Les Paul that appeared on the '77 tour was definitely not a '69 number 3, but a '52 number 3 clone purchased from Michael Corby in '74. I'm just saying that the snapshots of Jimmy playing it are not enough to tell to the untrained eye like mine, unless you are a guitar connoisseur, and that the different fingerboard lengths from the 22nd fret and beyond in the close-up footage in the video indicate that it is a different guitar.

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

5 hours ago, jsj said:

Sorry for the sidetrack, but where did Page get the number 2 sunburst from? 

July 20, 1973　BostonMAusBoston Garden

https://rockrollphoto.com/gallery/27

At the Boston gig, Jimmy is playing a '59 Les Paul (later number 2) in original condition (before the GROVER PEGS and rear pickup were replaced with a number 1 double white PAF).

At this point, Jimmy has not yet paid for the guitar.

More details to follow.

Edited July 29 by zoso_ledzep4_yy

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

>July 20, 1973　BostonMAusBoston Garden

>At the Boston gig, Jimmy is playing a '59 Les Paul (later number 2) in original condition (before the GROVER PEGS and rear pickup were replaced with a number 1 double white PAF).

>At this point, Jimmy has not yet paid for the guitar.

[gibsonfan159]

2 hours ago, zoso_ledzep4_yy said:

I am not doubting you! The third Les Paul that appeared on the '77 tour was definitely not a '69 number 3, but a '52 number 3 clone purchased from Michael Corby in '74. I'm just saying that the snapshots of Jimmy playing it are not enough to tell to the untrained eye like mine, unless you are a guitar connoisseur, and that the different fingerboard lengths from the 22nd fret and beyond in the close-up footage in the video indicate that it is a different guitar.

I'll admit I always assumed it was #3 until someone mentioned the differences a few years ago. Now I realize it looks nothing like #3. 

 

Also that comparison photo you used is one I made a while back lol

Edited July 29 by gibsonfan159

[gibsonfan159]

4 hours ago, zoso_ledzep4_yy said:

July 20, 1973　BostonMAusBoston Garden

https://rockrollphoto.com/gallery/27

At the Boston gig, Jimmy is playing a '59 Les Paul (later number 2) in original condition (before the GROVER PEGS and rear pickup were replaced with a number 1 double white PAF).

At this point, Jimmy has not yet paid for the guitar.

More details to follow.

Are you basing this assumption on the different strap he's using?

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

3 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Are you basing this assumption on the different strap he's using?

> (before the GROVER PEGS and rear pickup were replaced with a number 1 double white PAF)

The guitar strap is different , but that is by no means the reason for being number 2, as it is interchangeable in case of any problems!

The decisive reason is that this guitar is not one of Jimmy's trusted GROVER PEGS, but the original KLUSON PEGS!

https://rockrollphoto.com/gallery/27

I thought you might appreciate that only one guitar is different in the above mentioned Boston show that has already been introduced...

Since the '58 No. 1 has been replaced with Grover pegs,There is no doubt that the Les Paul in question is different.

Edited July 29 by zoso_ledzep4_yy

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

5 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I'll admit I always assumed it was #3 until someone mentioned the differences a few years ago. Now I realize it looks nothing like #3. 

 

Also that comparison photo you used is one I made a while back lol

 

In this case, I took still photos while playing back the Seattle 77 and TSRTS 73 videos one frame at a time, and then carefully selected and enlarged and arranged the main parts of the remaining four photos myself. I did not intend to quote any work from anyone for this post. I merely happened to adopt the same angle of photography for a certain purpose.

I feel uncomfortable that people think so.

[Autumn Moon]

On 7/21/2024 at 1:17 PM, zoso_ledzep4_yy said:

This guitar has been repainted, appears to be a 1969 Les Paul Deluxe Goldtop

Thanks for your research on #3, although I am puzzled about the fact that Jimmy bought a 1969 model in 1970. This Les Paul must have a great tone or other convincing criteria, always thought musicians with big wallets were after late 50ies models back then.

[zoso_ledzep4_yy]

14 hours ago, jsj said:

Sorry for the sidetrack, but where did Page get the number 2 sunburst from? 

I'll try to get off the thread title too, lol.

While scouring the net for articles about the LPB Strat, I came across a post by the person who actually sold this Strat to Jimmy! This person is an active member of the “Les Paul forums” and goes by the nickname “Plankspanker”. He claims to have sold this guitar to Jimmy while mixing the “Eternal Poetry” soundtrack at Electric Lady Studios.

guitar store sam ash retail stores
“The Story of Music Row 48TH STREET: Sam Ash Music has been serving New York City musicians since 1924 when we opened our first store in Brooklyn. We burst onto the Manhattan music scene with the legendary Music Row, where everyone from Jimi Hendrix to Eric Clapton to the Beatles purchased equipment. Pete Townsend smashed many of the guitars he bought there on stage. Over the years, we became a focal point of 48th Street, occupying seven stores at the height of our popularity.”
https://www.samash.com/spotlight/sam-ash-york-city-store-tour

“I sold that '64 LPB Strat to Jimmy in late April 1975. He used it quite a bit shortly after that, including their “Presence” LP. I asked him a few years ago if he still had it and he said it was one of his favorites. It was a '64 LPB Strat that he got at Sam Ash on 48th Street, and it was very nice. I got a call from Lenny, the store manager. Robert and Jimmy were mixing the vocals for “The Soundtrack From The Film The Song Remains The Same” with Eddie Kramer when it was brought into Electric Lady Studios. JP plugged it into the studio's BF Fender Twin JP approved it. What always impressed me about that Strat, besides the fact that it was light and balanced, was the sound of the pickups. When that Strat arrived at Electric Lady and I opened the case, the finish looked like a metallic variation of Gibson's color, Inverness Green. At the time, the studio had a spaceship theme, with subtle lighting and purple-toned paint and decorations. It was only when we brought it into the control room under incandescent lights that it looked like LPB. As I recall, the only guitar Jimmy had in the Plaza room was a black Everly Brothers model with star inlays; the LPB strat was soon shipped from the studio to England, and I don't think it made its public debut until the Earl's Court concert in '75. “- July 2001 “Plankspanker”.

http://www.tightbutloose.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/IMG_8720-scaled.jpg

＝May 23 at Earl's Court＝“Additional explanation for the following photos”

Jimmy playing the main riff just before the end of “No Quarter” performance and Robert standing with his hands on his hips

http://starship.mydns.jp/zeppelin/mp3/m507-750523-EV-083-B01.mp3

During the guitar solo of “No Quarter” from 17:29 to 17:48, while the guitar is silent, the guitar is replaced with a Stratocaster.

Edited July 29 by zoso_ledzep4_yy

[gibsonfan159]

39 minutes ago, Autumn Moon said:

Thanks for your research on #3, although I am puzzled about the fact that Jimmy bought a 1969 model in 1970. This Les Paul must have a great tone or other convincing criteria, always thought musicians with big wallets were after late 50ies models back then.

You forget they were the ones who made those models sought after. A 59 LP wasn't that desirable until later.

[Autumn Moon]

1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said:

You forget they were the ones who made those models sought after. A 59 LP wasn't that desirable until later.

Around 1966-1967 top league guitarists like Page, Richards, Beck, Taylor, Clapton & Co knew  about the unique sound of a LP 59 Standard or even owned one at that time (Richards & Beck). Therefore I am still amazed.....

[gibsonfan159]

 

Think this is the same guitar?