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mrlowry

Jimmy Page and July 7th

58 posts in this topic

The problems here are obvious; Time +Drugs + Apathy = We will likely never know. I do not doubt McCarty's recollections, I do however doubt their accuracy. It has been almost 50 years and even those with the best of memories will jumble things or just downright create false memories. The human mind and memories in general are a very curious thing. I have two cousins who were both horribly abused by their fathers who then abandoned them. Both of these creepy bastards are long dead but if you ask either of my cousins about their fathers both will recall pasts and experiences which never happened and have blocked out all memory of abuse. They both believe their fathers were the greatest sons of bitches which ever walked the Earth!

As numerous trials have proven, memories are not a good indicator of truth nor accuracy of events. Lest I remind people of the completely made up Satanism scare of the 1980's which destroyed dozens of lives before being exposed, not as a deliberate, made up story, but as memory manipulation done by well meaning psychologists.

I am with Steve on this one. Due to the elapsed time, physical evidence is required for substantiation. All due respect to Mr. McCarty as I do not believe he is lying and at this point there is nothing to believe either way. Regarding the guy knowing the weather that July night in 1968...it's fucking England, it is almost always raining or drizzling. That is like saying there were clear skies and no precipitation on July 7th, 1968 in the Sudan. Not exactly a stretch.

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19 hours ago, Mercurious said:

Are you saying McCarty and Clayson are lying?  For you to be right, Clayson would have had to lie in a book he wrote, for no apparent reason. Is that what you're saying? 

"Believe me" -- if you do anything rotten to the Yardbirds page, please do it to the Eric Clapton section, not to the Beck or Page sections, and certainly not to the 1992-to present sections (which appear to be written by people who were in those bands or associated with them etc). In any case, where did you get the idea an encyclopedic website is supposed to be good enough for scholarly research? And who cares about scholarly research in rock & roll? We're not discussing a cure for cancer or the impeachment of Trump here. Or even a simple county budget item.

And are you now saying that Jimmy says he did not play that date?  If you know something, please tell us. If it's something like "Jimmy says he didn't play" that's good enough, and much better than the vacuum you've presented so far, which, with all due respect, hasn't been good enough to upend anything McCarty said or Clayson wrote. If you're the person responsible for the "unconfirmed" citation in Jimmy's book, are you then saying Jimmy said he didn't play that show?

Oh FFS, you just want to argue. I stand by the posts I've made. When and if something more concrete than "the drummer says" or "the author says" surfaces call me.

14 hours ago, John M said:

What confuses me is that on Jimmy's website he lists the last Yardbirds US date as Nov 1967 and the last ever date as in March 1968. 

For research purposes, Jimmy's website isn't worth a squirt of piss. It's a vanity project with no regard for historical accuracy.

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7 hours ago, IpMan said:

I am with Steve on this one. Due to the elapsed time, physical evidence is required for substantiation. All due respect to Mr. McCarty as I do not believe he is lying and at this point there is nothing to believe either way. Regarding the guy knowing the weather that July night in 1968...it's fucking England, it is almost always raining or drizzling. That is like saying there were clear skies and no precipitation on July 7th, 1968 in the Sudan. Not exactly a stretch.

Precisely, and if "an author says" is the standard by which historical fact is determined then Led Zeppelin performed in Austin, Texas in 1975 because Stephen Davis says so.

:rolleyes:

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38 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

Oh FFS, you just want to argue. I stand by the posts I've made. When and if something more concrete than "the drummer says" or "the author says" surfaces call me.

For research purposes, Jimmy's website isn't worth a squirt of piss. It's a vanity project with no regard for historical accuracy.

Fair enough (or not fair to Clayson in particular) but I'm done with it. Russo, whom you worked with, continues to list Luton 7/7/68 as the final show (pgs. 123 & 239) as do Platt (1983); Davis (1985); Welch (2002) -- he apparently didn't put much stock in Grant's non-recollection, as he states Luton as the last date anyway; Clayson (2007) - has association with McCarty, Dreja and the Relfs, describes opening band, weather, Keith botching lyrics, Chris slipping bass runs; and more recently Wall (2010) - Wall even takes creative license and puts Grant at the show; and Martin Power (2016). With Jim backing them all up there's no call to take this any further.

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1 hour ago, Mercurious said:

Fair enough (or not fair to Clayson in particular) but I'm done with it. Russo, whom you worked with, continues to list Luton 7/7/68 as the final show (pgs. 123 & 239) as do Platt (1983); Davis (1985); Welch (2002) -- he apparently didn't put much stock in Grant's non-recollection, as he states Luton as the last date anyway; Clayson (2007) - has association with McCarty, Dreja and the Relfs, describes opening band, weather, Keith botching lyrics, Chris slipping bass runs; and more recently Wall (2010) - Wall even takes creative license and puts Grant at the show; and Martin Power (2016). With Jim backing them all up there's no call to take this any further.

Author Pamela Des Barres has association with Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, by your logic all of the many inaccuracies in her books should also be accepted at face value.

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Well my birthday is on July 7th, so if there's something witchy about that date, I'm royally screwed... it would certainly explain a few things in my life though.

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