Bonzo_fan
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Posts posted by Bonzo_fan
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10 hours ago, Jimmy's Dragon Suit said:
Actually I think I meant 1/20... the show with "When the Levee Breaks."
Ah yes, that would be 1/20.
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28 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:
I'm gonna keep all future 1975 nitpicks under this thread as not to clog up the forum.
Nitpicking Page 2/12/75 Madison Square Garden (Four Blocks In The Snow)
This one has a reputation as one of the best shows of 1975. Of course this is a straight soundboard source, so I really need to imagine how it would sound live to judge fairly. I've listened to it a few times before but have never nitpicked it, so here we go. (Here's a remaster I did of the show that doesn't sound so dry- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKfR9NOkf_U&list=PLtkfyvuP52RcQVJt6vNVOF6SsyDo-lf6L&index=1
Rock And Roll- A good solid start, Plant doesn't sound half bad. The solo, very reminiscent of the soundtrack version, except a little different at the end. Very nice start.
Sick Again- First solo, good start. Hangs up a little at 1:49. 1:58, strains a bit. Outro solo, good fluidity but gets a little repetitive. A very pale comparison to 2/8, but not as bad as 3/21.
OTHAFA- No flubs at the start. The solo, good noodling on the lower notes. The SB mix makes some of the bends sound strained, but I imagine they sounded more impressive live. Decent phrasing and improv throughout. 6:45, flubs the chords a bit. Not a bad version, though Plant started sounding flat.
IMTOD- Solid playing, slow and heavy. One of my favorite versions actually. Solo 1, good flow with nothing forced. Pretty much perfect. Solo 2, same here. A solid slide routine. Page doesn't tend to improvise with the slide as much, but maybe that's a good thing. 10:22, listen to Percy! I guess that's as high as he could get in 1975 lol. A superb version, with Jones and Bonham also playing well.
TSRTS- A muddy mix on this. The guitar on the first verses seems a little lackluster. The solo seems a bit strained at times, but I'm sure the SB mix accents that. The outro solo at 4:48 has Page's fingers tiring just a little. This version may not have been perfect, but it still had lots of energy.
The Rain Song- 3:12, attack of the shitty mellotron (Or whatever he was using here). It drags a little up until the rock part, then seems to get back on track. Page's playing is fine though. 7:26, throw that damn mellotron out a hotel window. Beautiful ending otherwise.
Kashmir- A very good version. 3:30, the mellotron acts up but it actually sounds intentional.
No Quarter- Nitpicking Jones, he's putting down a very nice groove. Not really showing off, but playing what needs to be played. In comes JP. Not really nailing the flow on the funky part, but still maintaining the groove. Some decent fluidity on 9:05-9:12. He's playing very relaxed and without the fire he usually has for this. Sticky fingers at 10:03. 10:33-10:48, phrasing nightmare. Could this be the show where he really starts to lose his phrasing ability? 11:03-11:10, a nice fluid run. 12:37, some good bends. Bonzo and Jones are sounding excellent through this. 14:03, the jam seems to drift into an open field with Jimmy not sure what to do, but it almost mimics a Pink Floyd sound. The song comes back on track nicely. Outro solo, some solid playing accented by the wah pedal. It's obvious though that he's not in shred mode like 2/8. He's relying more on the powerful bends rather than lightning runs. It works alright for now.
Trampled Underfoot- I'm sure Jones is doing some technical stuff for his solo on this song, but I've never found it very interesting. Luckily Page comes in soon. He's playing with some fire and nailing the bends. 4:22-4:27, these slow release bends usually sound terrible, but my god does he nail this one. 5:22, I love when he invents new rock riffs during a solo. Not the most articulate Page, but his phrasing was something else here. My only complaint is the incessant bass pedal through the whole thing.
Moby Dick. 0.18, guitar flub. 0:42, flub. Damn Jimmy, you OK? Bonzo is, he's killing it. It's nice to hear this on a good soundboard where you can hear all those little snare rolls he's doing between the big hits. 18:58, guitar flub lol. Maybe he's out of tune?
Dazed and Confused- I have to say, this song suffers badly without Plant's higher register. It just doesn't have the same impact. Maybe that's why they dropped it after 75. Page is playing very well through the opening. Not a bad opening solo, good phrasing and no strains. This San Fran section sounds really good, maybe the best I've heard. Bow solo, 11:50, that's officially the creepiest sound I've ever heard. It sounds like Plant is dying lol. This is a horror film done with sound. If there's any evidence the guys made a pact with satan, it's this bow section. Workout time- 18:03, sticky fingers. 18:10, some straining. 18:17-18:40, not good. Bad phrasing and articulation. 18:42, he finally gives up to rest his hand. Or brain. He comes back in and it's the same thing. 18:42-18:49 induces cringe. I'm thinking the Jack Daniels has kicked in? 22:30, he gets back in gear a little, with the speedy right hand showing up. The articulation is still a little rough. 22:38, very cool riffing. 24:25, officially out of ideas. He does manage to go into the Mars section flawlessly. 26:30, a very cool improv riff despite his sporadic playing. The song comes to an end like nothing bad ever happened lol. It's a shame because with the good opening, awesome San Fran section, and haunting bow section, this could have really been a classic.
Stairway- "Sometimes all of our tharts.." Plant is singing with extra enthusiasm. Anyone know what he says at 5:58? The solo- a good start but Page seems to lose his direction quickly and starts repeating the same licks and pausing frequently. This has nothing to do with an injured finger, he's clearly inebriated and unable to focus. It's not a terrible solo, but compared to others it's a huge step down. To a nitpicker, it's an embarrasment. Plant sounds good though.
Whole Lotta Love (Partial)- Plant is feeling good tonight. Opening riff sounds awesome and Plant is giving the crowd their money's worth.
Black Dog- For all his flawed lead playing, Page is hammering down these riffs like a pro. Maybe it's muscle memory VS. improv ability (While drunk)? The solo- Other than a little bit of turkey gobbling, it's really not bad at all. He does the bends adequately and doesn't venture too far from the norm. 5:20 is a perfect speedy run to end it.
Heartbreaker- I already dread nitpicking this solo. Let's see how goes it. Thundering intro. Solo- It's a standard "Heartbreaker" amount of sloppy. 6:07, nice change up. 7:10-8:48 somehow Page gets out of his mental fog and nails down a solid, fluid series of licks to end the song. 8:54, that drum fill must be mentioned.
Final assessment- A good show overall. Plant, Jones, and Bonzo are relatively flawless. Page starts out alright, but sure enough after Moby Dick, his lead playing takes a noticeable dive. There's a pattern I've noticed with him starting a lead run, ending with a bend, and then he pauses like he doesn't know where to go from there. To mend this mental problem he starts repeating a line a few times as if to give himself time to figure out where he's going next. Until a soundboard of 2/8 surfaces I can't make an absolutist judgement, but Page is nowhere near the level here he was for that show or Montreal. As bad as 3/21? Maybe on par, but I'd have to listen to them side by side.
Don't you have the matrix?
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1 hour ago, Jimmy's Dragon Suit said:
I enjoyed your analysis and always appreciated this show as an underrated gem but I listen to this show as fan of live Zep so some of the minor Page flubs never bothered me as he is still recovering from a smashed finger. I have to listen to this one again. I think you should nitpick Chicago 1/21/75 or New York 2/12/75 which in my opinion are in the top 10 for best shows of the US 75 tour... even with an injured James Patrick Page.
You've heard all of 1/21/75?? Do you mean 1/22?
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3 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:
I don't think you need to bother with Landover (2-10-75), the soundboard has exposed this show as a dud, the rather poor audience tape (enjoyable because of the wintry vibe it imparted) covered up a lot of flaws.
1 hour ago, IpMan said:Yes, not exactly a highlight of the 75' tour. Not horrible or even bad, just...blah IMO.
It's yet another great night for Bonham though...
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March 27, 1975 - Los Angeles -- Always been one of my favourites. It's certainly a long one--the average song length (if you just take the total length of the show, accounting for cuts in the tape, and divide by 15) is almost 15 minutes!
- longest "Sick Again" of '75
- longest ever "Over The Hills And Far Away"
- longest ever "In My Time Of Dying"
- longest "Kashmir" of '75
- second-longest "No Quarter" of '75 and seventh-longest overall
- second-longest "Trampled Under Foot" of all time
- longest ever "Dazed And Confused" (by a country mile)
- seventh-longest "Stairway To Heaven" of all time
- longest ever "Black Dog"
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2 hours ago, Remi said:
Same. Much better than the 24th IMO, but the 27th is still my favourite of the '75 Forum shows.
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Thanks for the feedback everyone! I decided to go with the matrix today, and I think it was a good call overall. The increased volume and liveliness of Jimmy's guitar, coupled with the extra atmosphere, made up for the slight loss of detail in the drums. I was disappointed that it continued to mix in the audience source when it drops to the inferior source halfway through Stairway; I think the pure SBD sounds better than the matrix with the inferior audience recording. Was hoping the inferior AUD would only be used for the missing Plantations on the SBD, but it wasn't a big deal--just flipped between the matrix and Deus Ex Machina a bit during the encores.
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15 hours ago, John M said:
Today is March 21 and we are getting snowed in. So I am giving this a spin in its entirety. 43 years ago today.
Listened to this one earlier--my favourite show from any year. Now finishing up March 21, 1973 Hamburg, another amazing show--could March 21 be the best day ever for "Dazed And Confused"? Hamburg '73 and 2nd Seattle '75 are probably my two favourite versions of it.
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Hello Forum Friends,
I'm looking ahead to Wednesday (3/21--my favourite day on the Zepp calendar) and trying to maximize my 3/21/75 listening experience. I've listened to the straight soundboard several times since it came out in August, but have only listened to "Dazed And Confused" on the matrix so far. I find that Dazed sounds better on the matrix, but after listening to bits of both "Rock And Roll" & "Sick Again" from both sources just now, I'm not sure which one is better.
What do those of you who have listened to both think?
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4 hours ago, John M said:
I am on a 1975 roll again after focusing on 1971 for quite a while. Always loved this show and the Plantation before Trampled is a classic. March 17, 1975
I'm spinning this one on its anniversary too! Only on OTHAFA right now though. Now we come to the peak of the '75 tour (3/12 notwithstanding)--the Pacific Northwest & LA.
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March 16, 1973 - Vienna on its 45th anniversary
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2 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:
Oof, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you there. I listened to the 8/21 LA show a couple weeks back, and I think that show is incredible from beginning to end. You have Plant pushing his voice to its limit, Bonzo's drums sounding absolutely MASSIVE on the recording, an amazing SIBLY, Black Dog, Celebration Day, WLL, Weekend, Rock and Roll (my personal favorite version), Communication Breakdown, and Thank You. I honestly think the last hour of that show isn't that far behind the last hour of the 9/19/70 evening show. Just an insane amount of energy and aggression and it sounds like the crowd is having the time of their life. While the recording is far from perfect, I don't think I've heard Bonham's drums ever sound more powerful than they do here. Every hit of the kick drum sounds like an explosion. I absolutely love the sound of that tape. It's one of my personal favorites.
I'll confess I haven't heard the 8/22 show in its entirety, but based on what I've heard, Plant is starting to struggle in the upper register, especially on Black Dog. He clearly is still hurting from the night before. I think if 8/21 had a better recording, it would be getting more praise than even Orlando or Berkeley. That's just my two cents, anyway.
Yeah, I'm with you on 8/21/71 LA. Probably the last show where Plant truly hits all of the high notes with reckless abandon/without hesitation. Easily my all-time favourite "Black Dog," and that's not a song where it's particularly easy for one version to distinguish itself from the others. Also love the cover of "Weekend," one of my favourite "Thank You"'s--especially the outro, and yes, probably the best recording I've ever heard for Bonham, sonically-speaking.
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8 hours ago, Boogie Chillen 82 said:
Been taking a break from '75, because there's the entire West Coast run coming up! (hey BonzoFan
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I am planning on playing the two '75 Dallas shows during a road trip this weekend though.
Meanwhile, I've been working on my '71 comp (minus Orlando and Osaka which I always want in their entirety). Played quite a bit of both Forum shows, along with the Budokan shows and Ipswich.
I think Ipswich is a great sounding show, by the early period standards anyway. Is there a better one (for sound quality) from the Nov-Dec '71 UK tour? In any case, it is a must for Gallows Pole alone, and WLL smokes - much better than either Forum version from earlier that year. Speaking of the Forum, I think that 8-21-75 is a fairly pedestrian performance overall - inferior to both the following night, 9-4-70 the year before, and 6-25-72.
Between the two '71 Forum nights, 8-22-75 has a better Heartbreaker, and vastly superior WLL and Thank You (JPJ's organ solo SMOKES). It also sounds better that 8-21 for some reason (though the quality still isn't great).
What do you guys think?
Fair enough
I started getting my annual '75 fatigue getting through parts of the Dallas shows the past two days. I've added several shows to my '75 rotation this year, so that could be why. Currently spinning Vienna '73 ten days early as I will be on vacation on the actual day and don't want to pull myself away from the beach to listen through earbuds. 3/7/70 Montreux is tomorrow...woohoo!
When you listen to '68-'73, you're surprised when they screw up; when you listen to '75-'80, you're (somewhat) surprised when they really knock it out of the park. That's the main difference to me.
I have never heard 8/22/71 LA, but I am a huge fan of 8/21/71...
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March 5, 1975 - Dallas -- After listening to this one today, I think I'd rank the Southern '75 shows as follows:
1. March 3 - Ft. Worth: Energy to rival the early days (especially Bonham), and pretty tight, too. There aren't any songs that are bad/a disaster, and there are some that are candidates for all-time great versions, such as TSRTS.
2. March 5 - Dallas: This one gets the slight edge over Baton Rouge for, oddly enough, "Moby Dick". This show has one of the true epic versions, clocking in at about 27:30, with not a moment wasted. This show also does a bit better of a job than Baton Rouge of not loosing steam towards the end (i.e. Baton Rouge's "Black Dog").
3. February 28 - Baton Rouge: A very tight (and compact) performance, at least until the very end. A thoroughly enjoyable listen, and a good "lunch menu" version of the second leg.
4. March 4 - Dallas: One of the all-time best OTHAFA, but the rest of the show is rather sloppy, despite Bonham continuing the roll he was on at this point in the tour.
My guess is that when 2/27 Houston finally turns up, it will land somewhere in the middle--probably between Baton Rouge & Dallas #1.
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6 hours ago, Strider said:
Sorry. Didn't notice this thread until nick2632 revived it last week.
Haha it's all good! I just found it funny
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10 hours ago, Strider said:
You most certainly can get an "Amen".
Although if they ever did release Montreux 1970 officially, Jimmy would have to edit "Bottle Up and Go" from the medley.
Asking for your favourite "How Many More Times" is like asking about your favourite fuck. They are all great.
Even the 1975 HMMTs were great.
One HMMT that I have rediscovered is November 6, 1969 Winterland. The tape quality isn't the best but the pulverizing power of the band shines through. Love the intro jam. The medley is the perfect length without killing momentum and Plant getting lost in audience participation routines. Jimmy's guitar sounds massive and it really sounds like the band is crushing San Francisco at the end.
Four years later...lmao!
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March 3, 1975 - Ft. Worth -- On IMTOD right now. This is a really great show--Bonzo is especially on fire
Jimmy's OTHAFA solo is really good too.
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37 minutes ago, paul carruthers said:
Not that I'm an expert or anything, but wasn't Baton Rogue the first show with the grand piano in the jam? I always thought, that...
Well, presumably it was debuted at the Houston show the night before, for which we don't have a recording yet.
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1 hour ago, The Only Way To Fly said:
How many dates did they do two shows in the same day/night?
I know it was a pretty popular thing in back in the day. Doesn't hurt that it was a pretty good pay day for the band to do it this way - but also pretty exhausting.
The Stones & Doors did it and I'm sure many others.
A few times in 1969, I'm sure. As far as I know though, 9/19/70 New York was the last time they did it.
Yeah, the Stones & Doors did it a lot. Some of The Doors' set times for those back-to-back'ers were crazy--I think for their Felt Forum shows in NY in January 1970, the early show was 8 pm and the late one was 10 pm! I'm pretty sure the set times for Zepp's 9/19/70 shows were 2 pm & 8 pm. At least that way you have a chance to go back to the hotel and freshen up, have a nap if you like before the evening show (and then the second show doesn't start crazy late). I hate having to start at 9:45 and later being on the bar circuit...
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57 minutes ago, John M said:
There are a fair number of 4 days in a row. I had looked at this before. Here are the dates I see as more than 4 in a row. But you are right it is very unlikely they would have scheduled 7 days in a row in 1975.
Dec 26- 30, 1968 5 days
March 27 - April 2, 1969 7 days (if we count German TV in Bremen March 27)
May 27 -31, 1969 5 days
August 14 - 18, 1969 5 days
August 20 - 24, 1969 5 days
Nov 4 - 8, 1969 5 days
March 7 - 12, 1970 6 days
March 25 - 31, 1970 7 days
April 7 - 13, 1970 8 days. This is the longest string of consecutive dates I can see. In fact this looks like quite a stretch for them. From March 23 - April 18, 1970 it looks like they had only 4 days off. Granted that was 1970 and not 1975.
August 19 - 23, 1970 5 days
August 31 - Sept 4, 1970 5 days
June 6 - 11, 1972 6 days, if June 8 Boston was a show as listed in Luis Rey's book. That gig is not listed on this site.
I count at least 13 other times with 4 days in a row, the last one being Japan 1972
Oh wow, thanks for doing all that digging!
Yikes about that stretch in March-April 1970! Working eight days in a row is exhausting no matter how much you love your job.
Crazy that a performance as stellar as Blueberry Hill came at the end of five shows in a row...
I know the Stones played crammed schedules like that much later into their career, but they also played much shorter, less demanding sets.
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7 hours ago, Boogie Chillen 82 said:
Wait, really? He talks about the West Coast shows from an eyewitness perspective (the LA and SD ones) and staying in the same hotel and Bonzo jamming to jazz records in the middle of the night and keeping him awake. Oh, and interviewing Robert (with photos). I thought it sounded a bit fan-boyish when I was reading it, but really? All completely made up?
A separate question: so, this itinerary seems to be wrong on so many levels, then:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin_North_American_Tour_1975
No 2nd Pittsburgh show, no New Orleans, no Knoxville, no Austin. Any other errors there?
I just looked at that itinerary; if those supposed New Orleans & Knoxville shows happened, that would have been shows seven days in a row to start the second leg. I highly doubt they would have scheduled that. There aren't even too many instances of them playing four days in a row, are there?
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11 hours ago, Boogie Chillen 82 said:
It sounds like the grand doesn't it? I'm wondering because usually (in later shows) there is a quick pause both before and after the grand, and Jimmy plays theremin as JPJ switches to the grand. Here, he hits the last "piano" note and immediately plays the opening notes of the NQ main theme...
Yeah, it's weird. Maybe it's a really small cut in the tape?
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13 hours ago, Boogie Chillen 82 said:
On to 2-28-75 (Baton Rouge, LA)
The first thing that jumps out after not playing this one for a while is how pleasant the sbd mix is. It's just a great sounding board! Especially after the brickwalled experience that was 2-14-75. (I don't have St Louis 2-16-75 and Houston isn't out yet, is it?)
The show finds the boys in good form and Robert's vocals are okay. Question: what is Jonesy playing during the piano solo and the guitar jam? It no longer sounds like the Fender Rhodes but it isn't the grand either because he doesn't change seats. He just segues directly from the Rhodes to this thing and then back again after the guitar jam's conclusion, no pause either time. It sounds very different from the Rhodes during the piano solo and the guitar jam, and for that reason is the first really different sounding NQ since the song's live debut back in '73 (again, I haven't heard St Louis or Houston, so I can't comment on what he used in those). Does anyone know?
It's another excellent NQ, btw. That song just continues to flourish in '75 as the year progresses and they don't seem to run out of new ideas for it.
I've been listening to this today as well. It is indeed a very pleasant mix. I also noticed the quick transition back to the Rhodes after the jam in NQ, but I'm pretty sure he's playing the grand...
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27 minutes ago, rm2551 said:
Thanks ZepHead315 and Bonzo_fan. I'll tackle one of them suggestions.
27/3/75 sounds the go. OTHAFA is my current favourite live track (changes almost weekly though) and IMTOD and Kashmir are right up there.
28/4 might get a run, Boomy and massive sounds brilliant. I'll decide later tonight once I'm flying...
Timezone here puts it at 4:20pm.
Oh, you're golden then time-wise! 3/27/75 OTHAFA is not only the longest, but also one of the better ones. Jimmy & JPJ do a cool call and response coming out of the solo.
4/28/77 is indeed a good choice as well...I was just listening to Achilles from that show earlier tonight, actually.
)
I started getting my annual '75 fatigue getting through parts of the Dallas shows the past two days. I've added several shows to my '75 rotation this year, so that could be why. Currently spinning Vienna '73 ten days early as I will be on vacation on the actual day and don't want to pull myself away from the beach to listen through earbuds. 3/7/70 Montreux is tomorrow...woohoo!
Jimmy's OTHAFA solo is really good too.
Nitpicking Page (The quest for the best performance of 1975)
in Led Zeppelin Live
Posted
The matrix is definitely worth hearing--one of the best boots out there sound quality-wise. I'm a drummer, so I don't find that I notice as many faults in his playing as you do, but I've never noticed any glaring issues this show that I can remember. Dazed does have some rough spots in the workout section, as you say, but I consider that sort of par for the course in '75.
I have Godfather's That's Alright New York. I'm sure I've seen it in full on YouTube before, but I can't seem to find it, so here it is on Black Beauty:
http://starship.jpn.ph/zeppelin/beauty/disp/boot.jsp?R_idx=1117