Bonzo_fan
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Listened to April 26, 1969 Winterland all the way through for (I think) the first time today for its 50th--amazing! Too bad it doesn't have the sound quality of the 24th (or even the 27th)!
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8 hours ago, strombringer101 said:
Put your bootleg ears on ( kinda harsh) but Jimmy is on fire.
Oh, I'm no stranger to that show--one of my favourites!! Can't wait to listen on its anniversary next week!
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4 minutes ago, strombringer101 said:
For some reason I like it because it gets right to the meat of that Killer jam between Jimmy and Bonzo. Love it! Just the power, yeah the full version on the DVD is killer and other earlier versions but for me that little riff kicked my ass.
Fair enough. I think it's always going to be 8/21/71 LA for me--the performance, the recording (Bonham's bass drum sounds like a cannon!), Plant still being able to sing it high.
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5 hours ago, John M said:
HTWWW vs TSRTS
Common songs: To me, most of these are better on HTWWW
Rock and Roll - HTWWW
Black Dog - HTWWW
Heartbreaker - HTWWW
Over the Hills - HTWWW
Since I've Been Loving You - HTWWW
The Ocean - toss up
Stairway - TSRTS (Plant better on HTWWW, but TSRTS has a much better guitar solo)
Dazed - TSRTS
Moby Dick - HTWWW
Whole Lotta Love - TSRTS (unless you prefer the medly)
Unique Songs
HTWWW
Immigrant Song, That's the Way, Going to California, Bron-Y-Aur Stomp, What Is and What Should Never Be, Dancing Days, Bring it on Home
TSRTS
Celebration Day, Misty Mt Hop, No Quarter, Song Remains, Rain Song
It comes down to what aspects of Zep you like best. HTWWW has a glorious acoustic set and more material from the earlier albums. TSRTS has better improvisation and more songs from the progressive side of HOTH.
I think overall I cannot really choose a favorite since they are so different and both so fantastic.
Whole Lotta Love is a tough call. HTWWW has one of the best beginnings of it ever with how violently Jimmy launches into the riff. TSRTS has one of the best coda sections/finales, again because of the violence of it. As far as everything in between, I would lean towards HTWWW, because for some reason, Boogie Chillen has always been my least favourite part of the medley, so I'm not a fan of how they reduced the medley to only that for the most part for North America '73. Not sure why I've never loved it...love John Lee Hooker's original, usually find their covers to be an improvement, but I always find myself kind of impatiently "getting through it" to get to the rest of the medley. One notable exception is 9/29/71 Osaka, with that amazing little riff they play before launching into it!
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19 hours ago, strombringer101 said:
Hands down TSRTS.
best daze, no quarter, rain song, black dog.
TSRTS's versions of Dazed, NQ & The Rain Song are certainly worthy nominees for best-ever versions, but I'm not sure how you could call its Black Dog a best-ever version when it isn't even complete (only the version on the Led Zeppelin DVD has the full song)...
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On 4/12/2019 at 9:07 PM, porgie66 said:
I hate to say but the suspense is boring the shit outta me. What a lackluster Bootleg Anniversary, let alone the official 50th. Lame.
Agreed!
On 4/13/2019 at 4:51 PM, ZepHead315 said:A user on Royal Orleans said they went to the store where the song was playing. He asked the person working there if they had any additional info and they said they didn't. Only that they thought it was from 1975. No idea as to when it will be released. Looks like we're still back at square one.
Damn, ok, well at least "probably '75" is something...fingers crossed for second Long Beach or Philly!
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So nothing new to report on this? It's been almost a month...the suspense is killing me!
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I'm not very into Metallica, but that certainly sounds like a cool way to do deluxe editions, and I wish Jimmy had done them like that! Are we assuming for the purposes of this exercise that Jimmy has access to at least soundboard-quality recordings of all shows? If so, I would say:
Led Zeppelin:
- January 26, 1969 - Boston
- April 24-27, 1969 - San Francisco
- August 31, 1969 - Texas Pop Festival
Led Zeppelin II:
- October 10, 1969 - Paris
- January 9, 1970 - London
- March 7, 1970 - Montreux
- March 21, 1970 - Vancouver
- April 17, 1970 - Memphis
Led Zeppelin III:
- June 28, 1970 - Bath Festival
- August 21, 1970 - Tulsa
- September 4, 1970 - Los Angeles
- September 6, 1970 - Honolulu
- September 19, 1970 (Afternoon & Evening) - New York
Led Zeppelin IV:
- March 5, 1971 - Belfast
- May 3, 1971 - Copenhagen
- August 21, 1971 - Los Angeles
- August 31, 1971 - Orlando
- September 23, 1971 - Tokyo
- September 28, 1971 - Osaka
- September 29, 1971 - Osaka
Houses Of The Holy:
- June 19, 1972 - Seattle
- June 25, 1972 - Los Angeles
- March 22, 1973 - Essen
- March 24, 1973 - Offenburg
- June 3, 1973 - Los Angeles
- July 17, 1973 - Seattle
- July 21, 1973 - Providence
Physical Graffiti:
- Maybe a January show for "The Wanton Song"--would be nice to have recordings for 1/18 Minneapolis & 1/21 Chicago to make a better judgement
- February 8, 1975 - Philadelphia
- March 12, 1975 - Long Beach
- March 19 & 20, 1975 - Vancouver
- March 21, 1975 - Seattle
- May 18 & 23, 1975 - London
Presence:
- April 28, 1977 - Cleveland
- April 30, 1977 - Pontiac
- June 13, 1977 - New York
- June 21-23, 1977 - Los Angeles
In Through The Out Door:
- July 24, 1979 - Copenhagen
- August 4, 1979 - Knebworth
- June 30, 1980 - Frankfurt
Coda:
- IMO, nothing after Bonham's death is even remotely release-worthy, 12/10/07 at the O2 notwithstanding, obviously. I would probably use the Coda deluxe to put out other curiosities, like all of the '75 "No Quarter" jams, or every Europe '73 "Dazed And Confused," or every cover they ever did in a medley, or something...
I put those two June '72 marathons in with HOTH rather than IV because they were already debuting a fair bit of HOTH material--"Over The Hills And Far Away," "Dancing Days," "The Crunge" (in Dazed), and "The Ocean" were all played at those two shows, and Plant was singing them better than he did after that tour (as has been discussed ad nauseum). Plus, IV already has a plethora of great '71 shows to choose from.
The trouble is, there are so many shows with no surfaced recordings from '69 to '71, that we are quite possibly missing some of the best shows from those years.
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March 27, 1975 - Los Angeles -- A day early with this one since I happened to have the house to myself for the requisite 3h 45m and I have to work tomorrow! 😂 I don't care what people say about this show, it's still one of my favourites!
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Obviously this today...
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Great news indeed! If it's '75, I'd rank the board-less shows of the second leg as far as desirability as follows:
1. 3/12 Long Beach -- All-time great show, so it's #1. The recently-surfaced third source makes getting the board less urgent, but still a tantalizing possibility--could be a great matrix!
2. 2/27 Houston -- Obviously a previously-unheard show is very desirable, but it's also presumably the debut of the grand piano in "No Quarter"! If Bonham is on fire like he is in Baton Rouge and the Dallas-Ft.Worth shows, this one should be a treat!
3. 3/27 Los Angeles -- One of my personal favourites, and hopefully the tape changes on the board would be in different spots than those of Millard's recording so that we'd have "The Rain Song," "No Quarter," and "Dazed And Confused" complete. Would make a fantastic matrix.
4. 3/25 Los Angeles -- Tough call between this and 3/10, but the 'Dazed' from this show alone gives it the edge for me.
5. 3/10 San Diego -- ^
6. 3/24 Los Angeles -- This one always feels dull to me--maybe it's just a letdown being the one right after 3/21...
As far as the first leg goes, it's a very tough call between 1/18 Minneapolis for curiosity's sake and 2/8 Philadelphia for a known fantastic show--I'll call it a tie. After that, any of the Chicago shows would be good because of the setlist. Anything between Chicago and Philly is considerably less desirable in my opinion.
If it's '77, it can't be my top choice (6/22) or 6/13 since "Trampled Under Foot" wasn't played at either of those, and isn't claimed to have been played at 5/31 Greensboro, which is another at the top of my '77 list. Could be 4/28 or 4/30 though, or conceivably 5/19 Baton Rouge!
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Couple of days behind...finishing up Fort Worth '75, then have to get through the two Dallas shows so that I'm back on schedule for Montreux '70 on Thursday!
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February 12, 1975 - New York -- Always have to give this one a spin on its anniversary. Godfather's That's Alright New York is the best title IMO. Snow storm here in the Toronto area today as well--"four blocks in the snow," indeed!
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February 8, 1975 - Philadelphia -- Thanks to @gibsonfan159 for finally making me listen to it because of his review of it last year--one of the best of '75 for sure, especially Jimmy!
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On 11/14/2018 at 12:13 AM, Strider said:
When you have so many tracks layered on top of each other it sucks the life out of the sound. When Def Leppard first started, they were a pretty good band. But starting with "Pyromania" and reaching its nadar with "Hysteria", producer Robert Mutt Lange got a bug up his ass about overdoing the overdubs and layering track after track after track of vocals and guitars to the point where it sounded so fake and processed. He ruined that band.
It's one thing to use other sources to patch in gaps in the primary source tape. But to layer four different audience tapes at the same time sounds like pushing it too far to me.
Oh ok, thanks!
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5 minutes ago, Strider said:
I'd worry about the Def Leppard effect.
What's that?
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On 10/20/2018 at 4:27 AM, rm2551 said:
Finished Seattle 1975. Man, that there is a great concert.
Beginning to end.
Indeed. Always been my personal favourite across all years.
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Listening to 9/19/70 NY (Evening Show) a day late today, as I listened to the afternoon show yesterday. I forgot how great and intense the outro section of "Dazed And Confused" is from this show--wow! That's one of the sections that kept getting better as the years went along, but there aren't many Dazed outros as intense as this one!
Hopefully this one is next-in-line for a soundboard release after 9/29/71!
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Just now, blindwillie127 said:
Page is also doing runs and phrasings I've never heard him do before either. I think NQ & STH from 3/21/75 are both really special and unique performances.
True, I forgot about that. I agree; Dazed from that show qualifies as special and unique as well. I would go with a Europe '73 version for the best instrumental virtuosity, but as far as its peak as a complete piece of music, more than just a song--like a symphony or opera, the 3/21/75 version takes the cake IMO. Each section has reached the peak/end of its evolution and is executed perfectly, with smooth and flawless transitions between each one.
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2 hours ago, John M said:
I was listening to Seattle 3-21-75 No Quarter and was digging the avant-garde, almost atonal bit that Jones gets into on the piano around 19:50-20:10. I don't recall hearing that in any other version.
Neither do I. I've always liked that part as well.
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49 minutes ago, Bozoso73 said:
I owe it to Nutrocker for turning me on to to 6.11.77. .It sucks that NY 77 doesn't represent sonicly like LA 77. .Isn't it crazy that we all have different tastes when we talk about shows? I cringe when someone will say for example 5.24.75 EC is their favourite or the 2nd KW show was killer LOL. . All this chatter about the 9.29 SB coming out yet Im not all that excited. .I was stoked for the Seattle SB last year and was greatful someone gave it to me. . Now if only a 6.22.77 SB would come out. . . 🙏😄
5/24/75 is definitely overrated, except for Trampled through to the end.
And yes, a 6/22/77 soundboard would be a Godsend 🙏 I think the fact that the SB of the Noise Solo from 6/23/77 circulates, coupled with the release of the 3/21/75 & 9/29/71 SBs, proves that 6/22/77 and other 'holy grail' SBs likely exist...it's only a matter of time. And it's certainly encouraging that they would release 3/21/75 & 9/29/71 in consecutive years...
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12 hours ago, Strider said:
Excellent write-up. I would expect nothing less from someone called "Bonzo fan". 👍
Thanks, Strider 😊
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On 9/13/2018 at 8:49 AM, gibsonfan159 said:
I think this sums 77 up very well. Was 77 Bonham's peak? In what way? He did some amazing things but I don't think he played nearly as dynamically as he did in 72 and 73. A drummer is welcome to correct me here, but 77 Bonham seemed to be mostly rapid fire snare rolls and textbook fills, they just happened to be done so spontaneously that it really stood out on a song. I think he also makes a strong impression in 77 because of tracks like Achilles. But the Hamburg version of Dazed shows he was doing that years before. He certainly had some lackluster shows in 77.
I really need to delve into those Pontiac and Birmingham shows.
I think it's certainly one of the top contenders, but I don't think it's quite as obvious a choice as is sometimes suggested. As a drummer, I find different aspects of his playing stand out to me on each album/touring year.
Led Zeppelin/'69 have his most aggressive bass drum work IMO (see "Good Times Bad Times," "Dazed And Confused," and "I Can't Quit You Baby").
Led Zeppelin II has some of his most interesting hi-hat work IMO (see how he makes straight 4/4 feel like a shuffle just by opening and closing the hat subtly on "Whole Lotta Love" & "Heartbreaker").
Led Zeppelin III has some very tight grooves in "Immigrant Song" and "Out On The Tiles," the latter featuring some excellent syncopation. The '70 shows still feature a lot of aggressive bass drum work and find his kit sounding as nice as it ever did IMO.
Led Zeppelin IV finds him tackling some new time signature challenges ("Black Dog," which is easy enough to play, but would have been difficult to come up with the part (he plows ahead in 4/4 underneath the 5/4 riff), and "Four Sticks"). The '71 shows are sort of the last consistent hoorah for the super-aggressive bass drum work (aside from "Achilles Last Stand" later on I guess)--listen to "Black Dog" from 8/21/71 Los Angeles and notice how he never plays the bass drum that aggressively on BD in later years. His kit also sounds great in '71, and I find that his grooves sound very smooth in a kind of mobile, 'rollin' and tumblin''-sort of way--listen to "Heartbreaker" from 8/31/71 Orlando for an example of this. He does a lot of little partial rolls and ghost notes on the snare during the groove. 9/29/71 Osaka also features one the most spectacular "Moby Dick"'s of all time, and his rolling snare is evident on it too!
I find '72 a bit more reserved than '71 for Bonham overall, but he's very tight, so you can't complain.
Houses Of The Holy is maybe his most reserved album performance, but interestingly enough, a lot of its songs lent themselves to being live showcases for him ("The Song Remains The Same," "Over The Hills And Far Away," and "No Quarter"). It does have his funkiest groove though, in "The Crunge".
Along those lines, '73 probably has his funkiest playing (particularly in the Dazed & WLL jams--especially in Europe). Europe '73 is kind of a final resurgence of the uber-aggresive bass drum at times. Overall, I would probably go with Europe '73 as his peak in the sense that it has the best combination of all aspects of his skill set/"game" being clicking at a high level and at the forefront, filtered through the very aggressive/'over-playing' mindset which would resurface in '77, if that makes sense. North America '73 is to Europe '73 what '72 is to '71 as far as Bonham is concerned, to me at least.
Physical Graffiti has a lot of variety in his playing (as it does in everything else), but it definitely lays the blueprint for what would eventually be his '77 style with songs like "In My Time Of Dying" & "Sick Again".
'75 gets an undeservedly bad rap on many fronts IMO, not the least of which is Bonham's playing. What his playing lacks here in spontaneity more abundant in earlier years, it makes up for with machine-like precision. '75 also features plenty of jaw-dropping individual songs from him (2/12/75 New York's "Heartbreaker" (precise) & his first two fills of the last verse of 2/10/75 Landover's "Heartbreaker" (spontaneous), 3/5/75 Dallas' "Moby Dick"), as well as legendary shows on his part (3/3/75 Ft. Worth).
Presence is, in my opinion, his most impressive album performance. Other albums may have more fun or recognizable drum parts, but I would say Presence has the most technically difficult drumming, whether it's time signature stuff ("For Your Life") or pure physical difficulty ("Achilles Last Stand," which I consider to be the most difficult Zeppelin song to drum). Even "Candy Store Rock" has quite a trippy drum part for what is otherwise a fairly straightforward 4/4 song...
I think it could be fair to say that '77 was the peak of his technical chops. His 'overplaying' in '77 sounds more calculated and controlled than it does in Europe '73. I think one of the best examples of his technical mastery of the instrument is 6/21/77 Los Angeles' "No Quarter". He completely takes the reigns and plays them like a lead instrument to perfection throughout a long jam meant to be a Jones/Page showcase, really, and contributes musical themes/ideas/riffs to the jam just like any other instrument would. Then, to top it off, he plays one of his most drool-inducing fills, at least for me, after the final "dogs of doom" line, which shows off his speed, precision, dexterity (getting back to the snare from the floor tom that quickly to go around the kit a second and third time) and syncopation (starting the first and second rotations around the kit on the bass in such a tight pocket).
Really, his middle-years approach, which I consider to be his technical peak, was established on Physical Graffiti and in the '75 shows, and then elaborated upon on Presence and in the '77 shows. Basically, I would say that his chops continued to improve at least up until/through '77. It's sort of like what someone said in another thread back in the winter regarding the evolution of Page's playing over the years--Bonham's playing post-'73 may not have always been as fun, but it could be considered technically superior. I would say that his hands and his syncopation especially kept improving until their eventual peak in '77. Sure, the wild abandon of songs like "Good Times Bad Times" is great fun, and that is certainly an impressive drum track, but I find the machine-like precision of "In My Time Of Dying" and "Achilles Last Stand" even more impressive--and harder to replicate! You can hear this difference between early- and mid-years in his solos; the earlier ones are usually more spontaneous, which sometimes gives them a more energetic feel, but the '75 & '77 solos are, for the most part, so controlled and calculated (in a good way)...you can really hear him focusing on building tension in each pattern and just constructing it a bit more methodically. This, coupled with the overall increased length of the '75 & '77 solos (insane muscular endurance!), make these solos more difficult, and my favourites, though I would expect non-drummers to prefer earlier "Moby Dick"'s (understandably).
In Through The Out Door is Houses Of The Holy's competition for Bonham's most reserved album, and this one stays just less reserved basically on the strength of "Fool In The Rain" alone, which is one of the greatest drum tracks of all time IMO.
'79 has its moments that aren't a whole lot different than '77, depending on the song (7/24/79 Copenhagen & 8/4/79 Knebworth especially have great Bonham performances on "Achilles Last Stand"), but I have trouble noticing anything in his playing in '79 that's better than it was in '77.
'80 is definitely his most reserved tour, but that certainly isn't to say that he played poorly (most of the time)...
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Jimmy gets thrown off because Bonzo throws in the beat from "The Crunge"!
What show or live song are you listening to now?
in Led Zeppelin Live
Posted
Mobile is indeed a great show! I think I like the following night in New Orleans even better though, after listening to both carefully the past two days. Jimmy's SIBLY solo in New Orleans is one of the best I recall hearing.