IpMan
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Happy Easter my fellow droogs! Or Passover...or if you're non-denominational/agnostic, Happy Blood Moon weekend!
I am working today but I don't mind...and I've got some cool Easter music to keep me company.
Talk about a musical combo! Ever read the book Ben Hur? Simply amazing.
Happy Passover & Easter everyone...
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It's important to remember that production values represent and document the era in which they were used. It really is unfair to compare them to other eras. I guarantee that the values that you don't like will be in vogue again in the future. There was a time when the whole psychedelic era fell from vogue, and people scoffed at fuzz guitar and such, but now that era of music lives in perpetual infamy. Every era is what it is, and although you may not be fond of it, you should try to view it as a snapshot in time, and enjoy it for what it is. It really is unfair to compare the styles and values of one musical era against another era. It's a bit like blaming someone for aging and being less effective than a younger counterpart. These are things that are beyond control. Acceptance of era styles and values allows for albums like ITTOD to be loved as a documentary of its time. It was cutting edge when it came out, and as you know, I still love it. Same with Coverdale Page. I get the issues that you refer to, but I accept them, look deeper than the superficial, and move quickly toward appreciation of the prowess behind the music.
Okay, whipper snapper?
Great point and reminds me of how after funk burned out in the late 70's, no one used a Wah on guitar until Slash brought that baby back on Sweet Child O Mine. That for me was a great day, the funky sexy wah affect coming back and kicking the shit out of all that sterile 80's shredder bullshit. One good, slithery note through a wah beats some asshole sweep picking any day IMO.
I also feel dismissing CP as late 80's is disingenuous. Whisper a Prayer for the Dying is like Zeppelin meets Metallica and Over Now was grunge if there ever was Grunge.
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Are there no clowns in California?
Maybe he loves England because it's his home.
No kidding! Malibu sucks, it may be pretty buy you have to be a certain "type" (i.e. Kardashian) to live there otherwise it ain't gonna work. After all, this is the place where the uber-weathy believe their property line should extend into the beach and to the ocean because, heaven forbid, the little people should have access to "their" beach.
This is one of the many things I do like about Cali, at least the state owns ALL the beach (except where the military bases are) and the public has free access.
I would take a home in England any day to one in Cali, I think England is both beautiful & historical and the Tower House is a true gem. However, for what it's worth I would prefer either one of the houses In Pangbourne on the Themes, or the countryside like Robert's (if he still has it that is).
Good for Jimmy, people like Williams have no class. I see no problem with what Williams wants, just where he wishes to do it. Just a total dick move IMO.
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We just finished watching the first 3 seasons on DVD, while the 4th season was wrapping up on t.v. What an amazing show that is! We watched seasons 1&2 over the holiday break and then needed a rest - it wears you out! Just finished season 3 (Coven), which might be my favorite. Now we'll have to pick up season 4 (Freak Show) and watch it again. Seasons 2&4 intertwine a bit - which makes for even greater watching. This is the most well written series I have seen in sometime and the acting is equally sensational!
I feel season 3 was the strongest thus far. Season 4 had some great potential but IMO they completely dropped the ball on several plot lines.
The wife and I are currently watching House of Cards new season on Netflix. They release the full season all at once so we are watching it over the course of this week. Up to episode 8 of 13 and things are really getting interesting. I believe this is one of the best shows on TV, both past and present and according to actual congress people, the show is chillingly spot on in regards to the inner machinations of the beltway.
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I got to say this, if ya gonna tour, that's the way to do it. Vacation & tour all in one...I am sure the ticket prices will be quite reasonable
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Just got my tickets for Rush and I am quite stoked, I have seen them more times live than any other band. That being said if anyone is a Rush fan you better get those damn tickets now. I was just watching an interview with Geddy Lee on That Metal Show and Eddie Trunk asked the man point blank...is this a farewell tour? Geddy, without hesitation said, for all intent and purpose yes, this will be the last time they tour on such a scale and that after this tour, future shows and dates would not be tour based. Geddy stated Neal is pretty much done, he has a young daughter and wife and will not miss time with them.
So, get your Rush tickets because all signs indicate this will most likely be the last time we see this amazing group live.
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Probably get deleted but strangely enough if Paul did write/play that weird part Page never played it live. Check the boots.
So did he play a different solo on that song?
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^To be fair, it's Randy California's estate, not the man himself. I read somewhere he was quoted as saying about the whole Taurus/STH thing, "Let him (Jimmy) have it!"
Oh, and the band is called Spirit, the song is Taurus.
Aww, fuck em both...Spirit & Taurus! Regarding Randy California claiming , "let him have it," fuck him too! The lament bass structure is not his to give as it is a basic structure used in numerous songs throughout the centuries. Also, I believe if the man truly believed Zep nicked anything his ass would have been running, not walking but running to the local courthouse and filing. Rich, poor, does not matter, filing fees in 1971 were what, $5? Zeppelin were on the rise, Stairway was a goddamn monster and ANY copyright lawyer would have taken that on contingent if there had really been a case at all.
I am still pissed about the Jake Holmes, D&C bullshit, that douche never should have been given a credit. Apart from the title the songs are completely different. Sure Jimmy played the song with the same lyrics as the Holmes tune but by the time he recorded it with Zeppelin the lyrics were totally different, the riffing and melody totally different. I guess Plant singing, "I've been Dazed and Confused" was enough to be considered copyright infringement because outside of those five initial words, the songs differ completely.
Ok, rant over, fuck Spirit!
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May I ask what all this back and forth about a Firm tune from 1985 has to do with a Zeppelin song from 1978?
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I could say a lot of negative things about you because I do not like you but I will not sink to your level of sarcasm and condescending posts.
I will say that what you just posted is simply ridiculous. "a rather poor yardstick". This is the Guinness Book of World Records, not some simple poll. I think that that has a lot of weight and pull and validity even if not everyone agrees with it. On the same note, I suppose that this "poor yardstick" of a publication has no merit when Led Zeppelin were in the Guinness Book of World Records when they (at the time) held the record for the largest single attendance for a single artist in the history of mankind when Led Zeppelin established that amazing feat on April 30, 1977 in Pontiac, Michigan to the tune of 76,229 paid attendees.
Edited to add: Your recent post regarding yaweh (whoever the F that is), Jesus, Rhett Butler and Scarlet O'Hara (from Gone with the Wind), make absolutely no sense and seem to have NO relevance to the fact that Breaking Bad is and will always be considered one of the most important and popular American television shows of All-Time. I ask you to name a Canadian tv show that could even be considered in the same sentence as Breaking Bad? I do not think that Montreal is a major hub for producing great quality tv shows. The only major thing that Canada and the United States have in common is the fact that both countries happen to share a northern border and both the North American continent landmass. (For anyone besides Sagittarius Rising), I mean no disrespect for the great people of Canada.
Here are two good examples that Breaking Bad will go down in American history as one of the Greatest Television show of All-Time.
Oh dear dear me, I believe you may be suffering from the vapors...
"Your recent post regarding yaweh (whoever the F that is)," - Oh man, that is fucking priceless.
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Yes, well, many people love Taylor Swift & Justin Beiber too so that is a rather poor yardstick. Also, I like Breaking Bad, I just don't act like Scarlett Ohara when Rhett Butler walks into the room in regard to the show.
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I knew I wasn't alone. The only time clapton really wowed me was in a few songs songs from Cream and that one track with Blind Faith CFMWH its really the only song he sings well. I was into Clapton before I found Zeppelin. Got into Jeff Beck and Jimmy about the same time and then it was see ya later Clapton.The only other 2 guitarists to hang on were Tony Iommi and Jimi Hendrix.
Didn't Stevie Winwood sing CFMWH and Clapton played acoustic?
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I have not seen this new series which premiered earlier tonight, however, I will later today. I will say that Saul Goodman's name is Jimmy McGill and that this series takes place 6 years prior to the ending of one of the Greatest Television Shows of All-Time (and that is My opinion but I am not alone in that opinion and assessment), in the year of 2002.
Is it really King, the greatest series of all time? I never knew you felt that way as you hide your feelings about the subject so close to the vest...
Anyway, saw the first two Better Call Saul and so far it's ok, nothing spectacular however these things usually take some time to get moving along. Hell, even the made by big baby Jesus himself Breaking Bad (peace be upon, um, it?) was slow in the beginning.
Ya know King, I bet in the Heavenly Kingdom YAWEH himself has BB in non-stop rotation and I bet there is a damn good chance the Heavenly Host himself will be sending a stroke to both Brian Cranston and the dude who played Jesse just so he can have both at his left side. Jesus is at his right so they boys will just have to make due.
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Maybe we should change the thread title since it's no longer about Jimmy.
I like monkeys, long strolls on the beach, and David Cronenberg movies while hanging out with artistic lesbians in a coffee house with beat poetry...
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The reason so many young kids are playing that way is because of Guitar Hero and other digital programmers.I played along to garage band and found myself stagnating as opposed to a live drummer/bassist.Also there has been so much advancement in technology with guitar equipment that kids are getting more involved with that than actually music.Also guitar magazines are filled music tabs and free cds transcribing every technical nuance of Satriani,Malmsteen,Petrucci and those ridiculous guys out of Dragonforce.Very rarely does it mention anything about feel,emotion.When I was a kid I just had a cheap guitar and an old homemade amp,but I tried to get the most out of what i had.Nowadays kids have got loop stations and other gizmos doing the work for them.Perhaps i'm just grumpy old man
No, not grumpy, or old, just plain true.
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Geez - I'm British. We invented sarcasm. Anyway, I already have a list of my own.....
It's growing.....
Ohh NOOOOOoooooooo
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As a player of 30+ years when I first started playing in 83' the only live Zep I ever heard was TSRTS and listening to NQ & D&C or the Stairway solo all I could think was how any human could play an instrument so brilliantly. Yet i also noticed on other songs him sounding like he really either did not give a shit, let's get on to D&C, or he was just chill in the groove.
Anyway, I started in classical playing trumpet in jr. High in 79', classical & jazz only with an occasional Chicago, Chuck Mangioni, or Alpert tune thrown in for good measure. After years of conductors and teachers screaming, "allegro, allegro, tempo is dragging" or after playing a Bizet composition flawlessly, having the instructor say, "you were flat on the C at the beginning of the second movement" I figured fuck that. After all if Chopin & Beethoven could improvise fro time to time, why not me? No song is sacrosanct, they are ALL up to the individual's interpretation. So, I got out of classical, dropped the trumpet, picked up the guitar and began playing music with feel...the blues. Blues is still my all time favorite genre.
I have said it before and I will say it again: I can go to ANY town and find a 12 year old guitar phenom who will hand Vai or Satriani their ass on guitar without so much as raising a sweat, however I have NEVER met a 12 year old or even 18 year old guitarist who could phrase like Page. I don't care how proficient someone is, without feel it is meaningless, and that is a very, very hard line to walk.
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Seriously dude, is that sort of talk even necessary? I know where the permanent ignore button is as well as you do. I thought we were all adults here.
Woz, Mr. Dark is really only joking, he is a great guy and being funny and a wee sarcastic is just his personality, there are a few dicks on this board but Dark ain't one of them.
Now if you want a list...Joking, joking, I swear, I joke.
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I said the intro was a dog (horrible) to play.... I've also been playing for more than 30 years.
On the studio version intro I hear a flub on the E that then slides down to C both times he plays it (little finger not fretting properly), open strings ringing that shouldn't be and there's a general sense of 'argh, this is difficult to play!'. If he was going for the train wreck sound he certainly achieved it...
Did you ever think maybe Jimmy wanted it that way? When I hear the song I get a barroom vibe of a slightly pissed off narrator essentially taking the story of Hey, Hey, What Can I Do and saying, 10 years later, how he got shit on again due to his own stupidity. The vibe the guitar gives the narrative is VERY important to the picture I believe they were trying to paint. One of the traits "later" Jimmy had / has that "early" Jimmy did not is feel for the song as a whole. Jimmy was one of the first hot lead guitarists to leave a solo out of a song because the song did not need it (Kashmir). In 1974 everyone else out there would have put a solo in there somewhere. Jimmy's ability to paint a picture with his arrangements is truly what makes him unique and I believe he was willing to do unorthodox structures in an effort to paint that picture. Jimmy schooled to be an artist, instead he became a sonic artist.
Prince once said i an interview, "Jimmy Page played in color, everyone else in black and white." Prince "gets" it.
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In my experience taking a step back and listening to something you know better than the back of your hand in a critical way is incredibly difficult. Considering how enamored you are with ITTOD as a whole I doubt that you'll be able to make that step and give it an honest and unbiased appraisal.
I'm not being dismissive of your love of it (each to their own), but I'm coming from the point of view of a guitarist. The riff at the beginning of Hot Dog is actually a bit of a dog to play, but Jimmy muffles and mis-picks badly at least twice and you can almost hear him thinking 'ohshitohshitohshitohshit' as he's playing it. It's one of only three Zep songs I'll actively skip if it plays, mostly because it makes me cringe with embarrassment for Page.
Mmmm, I have been playing for more than 30 years, some of those years professionally and I have played Hot Dog live and I tell you this...good luck. It is a tough song to play, the beginning and exiting riff is a bitch to nail, and if you don't do the pull off's just right forget it. In the studio version I hear one minor mistake in the intro riff and none in the outtro. In the live versions I have heard (both Copenhagen, 1st Kneb, and Vienna 80') he does a good job with it. The solo changes but except for a couple of minor flubs with the Knebworth version nails it. Now when I say nails it I am being subjective because the studio solo is a brilliant mess, just amazing and I remember an interview in 79' with Jimmy about the newly released ITTOD talking about Hot Dog. He specifically says the way the song is played and the solo in particular was done on purpose to give it a "frenzied, rockabilly feel." Maybe he was covering for his mistakes, maybe not but I have indeed disected this song and I feel it was executed perfectly and brilliantly. If I were in the studio as co-engineer I would have said, "fucking brilliant Jimmy, that sounded just like a train ready to fall off the tracks, two wheels in the air, two on the track and the car at a 45 degree angle on a curve yet barely sticking...brilliant!"
To each his own I guess.
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I think it would be useful to add this quote to this thread, because it partly explains why people ever started bandying around the word 'sloppy' in connection with his playing:
“Terrible. Really sloppy. I'm just totally uneducated. An illiterate guitarist, really. But it doesn't make any difference because now and then something good will come through.”—Jimmy Page defining himself as a guitarist, from Melody Maker Sept. 1974
When Page said this he was being self-deprecating to some extent (he is English, after all). That is an exaggeratedly negative self-assessment.
As has been said earlier, the imprecisions and limitations of his style were hardly unusual in the time-frame when his style was formed - i.e. the mid-60s to early 70s. Rock guitar was considerably less technical back then. But they are an important part of his style. I think most rock guitarists would give their right arm to be 'sloppy' if it meant they came up with the solos and riffs which Page came up with.
Some of what people might perceive as 'sloppy' is actually timing. Page's classic solos often play 'late' on the beat. I've been a professional guitar teacher for 35 years and everyone whoever came to me and played the studio Stairway to Heaven solo never got it right even when they had all the notes in the right place - why? Because they never get his late timing. They play it right on the beat, with a kind of 'oh this is easy' attitude. To really play it you've got to make it sound like its an almost impossible struggle to get the notes out - a good example would be the solo on 'I'm Gonna Crawl' where he really weights a lot of the phrases by playing late. It sounds fantastic, of course.
The earlier observations about the change from wrist to 'scrubbing' are very true.
Page's tragedy as a musician is that he could not escape the persona he created for himself in the mid-70s - the problem was, who would want to? But then the band ended, and he could not find a vehicle in which to place that persona. Jimmy Page was the person who never left Led Zep. Jones and Plant did not allow their musician impulse and creativity to be so restricted by a persona, hence the diversity of their solo careers. Page has always been reluctant to do anything musically which might be perceived as 'not very Jimmy Page' as defined by that persona. Hence the archivist role, and the attempts to play Zep songs again in various formats and bands.
Sorry this has gone on a bit ...
Welcome, and excellent post almost right out of the gate. As a player for 30+ years I could not agree more.
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I saw The Eagles once, in 94' for the Hell Freezes Over Tour where they charged $75 a ticket at a time every other big name was charging $25. IMO they ruined the live show industry by pulling this shit. They are however a great studio band, live they are boring as all hell, they really are the anti-Zeppelin live. Where Zeppelin expanded and changed their songs live, the Eagles played every song EXACTLY like the album (except for Hotel California post-94 acoustic), and except for Joe Walsh everyone else seemed made out of cardboard.
They are excellent and very talented musicians without doubt, unfortunately they (Glenn Fry & Don Henley) even exceed Gene Simmons in regards to greed and egomania. And lets face it, the Eagles were, and always have been exclusively Glenn Fry & Don Henley as they have both admitted to in interview after interview, the rest of the band are just easily replaceable hired hands lucky to be making scale and licking Glenn's hairy ass.
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How so? By the time Jason came of age, he still wasn't half the drummer his father was - that's no intended insult, Jason is tremendous, but his father was simply extraordinary - and enough time had passed since the initial disbanding of LZ that the creative momentum between the surviving members had long since dissipated in a haze of tragedy and substance abuse, that's not to say any reformed LZ album wouldn't have been good to even truly great, but the sheer weight of expectation on such a release would have worked against it from the outset, and it wouldn't have been given a fair shake once it hit shelves... it's only very recently that Pink Floyd's The Division Bell is getting a fair reappraisal, two decades after it's release, public opinion can take time to accept anything new.
And no Bonzo = no Zeppelin, all four members were utterly irreplaceable in their respective contributions. take one away from the equation and it stops being what it was... and besides, had Zeppelin reformed, say, in 1990-91 after the remastered catalogue re-releases, the whole thing would have been a corporate nightmare, the very thing Robert Plant complained privately about with the 02 show; lawyers and business managers would have dominated the proceedings, ticket prices would have been outrageous, the kids wouldn't have stood a chance getting tickets, audiences would been largely made up of people eager to be seen and not because they loved Zep, and the whole affair would have been an unparalleled commercial bonanza but a complete artistic disaster. Plant would have bitterly regretted it had he went through with it, and Zep's name and reputation would have been tarnished thereafter...
No, they made the right decision in 1980, they made the right decision throughout the 1980's and 1990's, and thank goodness Plant made the right decision after the honorable 02 show in 2007... we all dearly love LZ and their timeless music, but the star that burns twice as bright burns half as long, and Led Zeppelin burned so very brightly whilst they were active. I choose to remember them as they were - the single greatest band that ever walked or ever will walk the planet, bar none - not as I hope they would be again sometime in the future, that future won't happen and shouldn't happen... as Tom Wolfe once wrote, "you can never go home again".
^ Spot on
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Good pic man. I commend you for having the guts to put your pick on here. Mine is on, somewhere. Those grapes belong to you? If so I am guessing you have some pretty darn good wine. I never had Canadian wine. Hard enough to make it across the border now. I may have to use a home made submarine the next attempt. As for Mario above, great pic and I am soooooo jealous of your gold Le Paul
Whats up buddy... Nope, not my grapes, I was on a tour of wine country in Napa Valley California and happened upon this amazing, beautiful vineyard. The place was a damn castle, no shit, and the grounds surrounding appeared to go on for miles. Many folk have their weddings there as it looks like something out of a medieval storybook.
Ps. I never tried any Canadian wine except for a winery in BC which produces Eiswein. First time I had it and shit was expensive, and way, way too goddamned sweet. Tasted like rotted, formented apricot. Blech!
Who's That Bloke With Percy?
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^ She looks thrilled...probably fearing a mud shark in her future?