SteveAJones
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Now here's a bit o' mystery most have never known until now: Jimmy said he formed the idea of using a theramin in the 60s after seeing one used in the film 'Abbott & Costello Meet Frankenstein'.
Edit: I'm going to purchase this film and review it over weekend. I'd been meaning to get it anyway, as I find all of Universal's classic monsters intriguing (hello, Wolfman!)
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Nothing at the moment, but I'll see what I can find. Where's swandown's helping hand
when you need it.
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Here's another one Steve. A friend of mine claimed to go a private show of the Crowes/Page in I believe San Francisco. The cool part is that he said there was no more than a few hundred people there and everybody sat real close to the stage. I'm guessing it was a rehearsal (like the Copenhagen shows in '79). Do you know what date this roughly was, what venue, and of course, is it available bootleg wise?
Page/Crowes never performed anywhere near San Francisco so far as I know. They were supposed to play the Shoreline Amphitheater in Mt. View on 8/22/00 but it was
cancelled on account of Jimmy's back injury. Perhaps he meant NYC, as there was the Roseland Ballroom gigs on Oct 12,13,14 1999.
If you can confirm the location I can tell you more.
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His book came out in the 90's. HOTG came out a few years after they broke up.
Yes, but Richard Cole was the primary source for many of the sensational anecdotes which appeared in Stephen Davis' book Hammer of the Gods (1985). If I remember right Richard told all for a paltry $1,500. Anyway, if you look closely you'll see several HOTG anecdotes are in Cole's 'Stairway to Heaven: Led Zeppelin Uncensored' (1992).
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Ehmm, nothing against Jimmy but he said it himself that "Aleister Crowley doesn't have an high opinion of women and I don't think he is wrong".
But that was said in the bloom of youth, 30+ years ago. It would be interesting to hear
his comments about women now...or perhaps it's better to hold off on that one
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I still don't see what's wrong with Cole's book. What is the BS in there? Some of our boys dabbled in hard drugs. So what. It's not like we didn't know. As for making Bonzo look like a creep in some parts, well that's part of who he was (at least when wasted). It doesn't make me look down at him whatsoever. We all know he was a loving family man who loved playing drums but overall, hated touring. I personally think that they hated that he let some details out that they had rather we would have not heard.
There's a time and a place for tell-all books, but less than five years after the end of
the group as they stuggled to find their own paths forward was obviously too soon.
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I know we tend t disagree re this stuff Chicago, so please don't take this personally - but I think this is a rather romanticised view. Jimmy didn't specifically choose to have time out to be with his growing family - in fact he isn't with them every day - and if at any point since the kids were born he had had the opportunity to go out on a tour with Led Zeppelin I bet my house he would have done. He was willing only recently to become what you call an "absentee parent" to take Led Zeppelin out on tour, I think it is stretching things a little to say he is not making music at the moment because he's chosen to be at home being a parent.
I can't speak for Chicago, but I was referring to the relatively inactive period of '00-'06.
The family situation has changed since then, as you know. I do agree home life would not have kept him from taking Led Zeppelin on tour at any point from '00 onwards if he had a genuine opportunity to do so. I also agree it isn't parental responsibilities which
explain why he is not making music now.
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Actually WNEW FM 102.7 out of New York City was also there and covering it during their daily Get The Led Out program. Carol Miller a DJ from WNEW and a big Zeppelin fan interviewed Jimmy Page at the premiere. This is actually something I'll never forget. One of the questions she asked him was, what he thought of Richard Cole's "Stairway To Heaven" book on the band. To say this didn't go over well with Jimmy was an understatement. I don't remember the exact words Jimmy said to Carol, but he referred to Richard Cole as a f*****g bastard and about exploiting Led Zeppelin. His book had been released, perhaps several months prior to this. Carol wasn't aware of Cole's shaky relationship with the band, a lot due to his tome and I think she felt a bit embarrassed. There was no seven second delay on this. I wasn't expecting this, but I thought it was unusual that she was unaware of how much Zeppelin's remaining members despised his book, considering how big of a fan she was of the band. It was unforgettable hearing this. A classic radio moment.
I was unaware of this interview until now. I'd really like to get a copy of it, and may
contact WNEW directly to see if it's archived if no one else has it. Cole's book was
released in July 1992 and received mixed reviews.
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I wonder why Jimmy is against a solo career. Is it because the Outrider tour didn't do as well as predicted? I still say people want to see him live.
He's not "against" a solo career, it's just not something he's interested in maintaining.
One thing that does irk him is the enormous amount of promotional work required for
any new release. He still remembers doing most of the press for 'In Through The Out Door' in just one afternoon at the Swan Song offices. Nowadays, it just never ends.
It is fair to say The Firm, Outrider & C/P albums & tours did not do as well commercially as one would expect, but each was certainly an artistic acheivement in its own way.
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But do you think he would have gone this route anyway even if he had finished the Crowes tour or was the back injury a catalyst?
The back injury accelerated entering a period of inactivity, but I think it was inevitable.
His children were very young and he was determined to be there for them. By his own admission he had no desire to maintain a proper solo career, so it seems to me unless
he had a chance to continue further with Robert or Led Zeppelin it was meant to be.
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Oh yeah, my girl and I also went to the NYC premier of Unledded at some theater in the city. Steve, do you know which theater it was? P/P were advertised as being there but they never made an appearance. They supposedly went to the China Club later that night. We tried but couldn't get in there. Aw, those were magical times.
They arrived in NYC on Tue, Oct 11th 1994 for an afternoon/evening advance showing of 'Unledded - No Quarter' at the Beacon Theater, during which they granted interviews to Mark Shearer for CNN's Showbiz Today, Steve Fox of 'Good Morning America', to VH1 for Full Press Court and held a brief press conference. Clips from all the interviews aired on television the following day (Oct 12th) with the MTV world premier telecast airing that night. I believe the advance showing was only open to the media, but perhaps you attended (got in) or there was a public premier at the same venue later that night or the next day?
I don't show they went to China Club during this visit but it's possible (unconfirmed).
They flew to Paris on Oct 14th, having attended The Grateful Concert the night before.
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Thanks Steve. Nice bit of info there. I had wondered why and how they allowed taping for some of their 1995 shows and now I know.
Reducing the demand for bootlegged releases was the primary reason why, and The Grateful Dead's use of designated taper's section showed them how. Of course, this
did not keep the floodgates for Page/Plant bootlegs from opening, and the idea was
abandoned at the end of the first leg of the tour in April 1995.
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Hi Steve. Here's a two-part Zep/Grateful Dead question. I remember reading that the Dead arrived at some photographer's house for a photo shoot. Zep were already there doing one and while they were, Pig Pen, the famous Dead keyboardist (and known prankster) started shooting his gun off. Supposedly, the boys freaked out and quickly left. I find this a little hard to believe (esp. if Peter Grant was there). If it's true, do you know who shoot the photos of Zep, and are they available for public viewing?
Also, I remember reading that Jimmy had contacted Jerry Garcia about advice on the steel-pedal guitar for Zep III. Did they actually meet up and if so, any details? Thanks.
P.S. Also, any other Dead/Zep stories to share?
There is a shared photographer connection between Led Zeppelin and the Grateful Dead
and it is Herb Greene, whom Peter Grant had commissioned to photograph Led Zeppelin. The session was held at an abandoned opera house in San Francisco called The Loft in
January 1969. I don't think the Grateful Dead were there, but as you know they were a mainstay of the San Francisco music scene at the time. Perhaps their paths crossed. I
can't say for certain at the moment if the Pig Pen firearm anecdote is true (sounds far fetched) nor if Jimmy sought Jerry's advice. I can certainly look into it. They must have performed on the same bill over the years and may have met then. Here is a link to one of the Herb Greene photos from The Loft (there are many others on the net):
http://www.herbgreenefoto.com/gallery/led_zepplin.shtml
Having said all that, I can share with you one confirmed connection between Led
Zeppelin and The Grateful Dead: On 10/13/94 Jimmy & Robert were in NYC doing
promo work for 'No Quarter' and attended the first night of The Grateful Dead's six shows at Madison Square Garden. They observed how TGD allowed fans to record in designated taper's sections and consequently similar arrangements were made for the first leg of their own 1995 North American tour.
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Right, but what remains unknown is how much the back injury played into Jimmy's inactivity since then. He was really on a tear from 1998 onwards and was exhibiting a newfound youthful enthusiasm for touring when interviewed with the Crowes. Even if he recovered after a few weeks, maybe this was a dose of the reality of age that pushed him into semi-retirement after working too hard, or he felt that if he jumped back on the road it would have looked bad for the insurance company. But you have to concede that the shift from touring around the world to sitting on the couch was abrupt, and he really did not communicate his intentions at all to his fans.
IMHO, his inactivity coincided with raising his children. It was he whom rose early to
send them off to school. By his own admission, he missed out on much of Scarlet's
formative years and he was determined to be there for his children this time around.
As I understand it, the insurance concerns stemming from cancellation of the tour
only necessitated six months of no public performances.
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Terry Manning talks about the third Led Zeppelin record:
OK, where to start on Zeppelin? (Couldn't find the multitracks; they must have been thrown away from our tape vault when we did a major clean out!)
I'll try to do the story, but keep it as short as possible.
I met Jimmy Page while playing in a regional band based in Memphis. The Yardbirds (which then included Page) were playing on this Dick Clark Caravan of Stars tour. They were one of the stars; we weren't. Dick would pick up locally or regionally known groups (cheap) to fill out the tour with some opening acts. I was a HUGE Yardbirds fan, so I made sure to seek out JP. Beck was playing lead, and I think Jimmy was actually on bass at the time, and also doing occasional rhythm guitar. Clapton had already left. The next tour the 'Birds did, I made sure to go and hook back up with them, although we weren't playing on that one. I went to several shows, but one in particular I remember was at Murray State University in Kentucky. Jeff Beck had just quit the group, so Jimmy was taking over lead guitar duties. This was his first night as leader...we all wondered: "Could he handle it?" Don't worry though, he could. After the show, JP rode back with me through the night to Memphis, and we arrived at Ardent Studios very early in the morning. I showed him around the studio, we played guitar a bit, and he really wanted my '52 Telecaster which I had brought out. He offered to trade even for Beck's Esquire, which had been left behind. I've always wondered if I should have made that trade...but it didn't seem quite right to take Jeff's guitar, when he wasn't there to defend himself. We decided to keep in close touch, and Jimmy asked if I might be interested in either joining, or recordin,g his new band that he wanted to put together someday. Sounded interesting to me. I said OK. He was going to call it The New Yardbirds.
This "new" group did come about, slowly. I decided not to leave the recording situation I was in, as things were going great at Stax, but I said I might be around if needed for any engineering work. The New Yardbirds played around a bit, with not huge success, but a couple of their songs would resurface on the first Zeppelin album, I think "Dazed and Confused" and "How Many More Times," but it's been many years since I heard those by the 'Birds. Jimmy wanted to change the group name to something original, and find a couple of new members. He decided on a singer who was also a friend of mine, Terry Reid (I had taken the album cover photo, and done the layout, for TR's second album). Terry was a great guy and a great singer, and he wanted to do it, but his manager/producer, Mickey Most, wouldn't let him out of a contractual obligation, so Terry suggested the singer from Robert Plant and The Band of Joy. That singer was Robert Plant. The drummer, I think, for that same group was John Bonham. Jimmy knew John Baldwin, aka John Paul Jones, from the session musician scene around London, and the four of them got together to try things out. Jimmy told me that about two songs into the first rehearsal, in the middle of a great sounding piece, everybody just started looking around at each other and laughing. It was obvious right from the start that they had "IT."
Of course, they recorded the first album, and the rest is history, as they say. JP sent me a cassette of the first one well before release...wish I knew where that was right now! Then the second one took things to a higher level yet. Jimmy called me to ask if I would move to London and set up their own private studio for them. I actually did start immigrations paperwork to do this, and had made long equipment lists, contacts with suppliers, etc., but again, there was so much else going on, I decided not to go. Jimmy understood, but asked if I would be available if they got into a jam with any new recordings. I said OK.
Well, it turned out that they did get into time trouble. There was a big tour totally scheduled, and it was to coincide with the release of the third album. But they got way behind getting ready for the recording, and the start was delayed so much, that by the time they got some of it recorded (at Olympic in South London, with Andy Johns, brother of Glyn), it was time to leave for the tour, with the album only partly done. This could be a marketing disaster. JP called me and asked if he could come in to record in Memphis in short spurts, that is, in between shows. I said OK. So they would play a show or two, and on the days off, JP and whomever (always Peter Grant, as well) would fly in. I would pick up at airport, and drive directly to the old Ardent studio at 1457 National Street. We overdubbed things, tracked some things, and edited and mixed everything. I had just taken delivery of a new 3M 16 track 2", which was good, as that's what the previous tracks were recorded on. But Dolby's were required, which we didn't have, so I had to scramble with Ray to get the units needed there quickly (A's, the big grey 2 chan ones). I recorded with Jimmy at Olympic in London already for some bits, so I was familiar with most things already.
Mics which were used were just the standard mics I always used. 67's, 87's, 47's, EV (RE15?) or Shure (I think 545?). We didn't have or use any Sennheiser's yet. They hadn't really made it to the US in any big way at that time. Neumann was the king, except you had to deal with Gotham Audio in NY, which I must admit was not much fun. So I found a dealer in Germany, and would get mics sent in directly from there, which infuriated Gotham. On drums, John wanted as few mics as possible. He would say the HE would control the levels and dynamics, not the engineer. And he could. I believe there were sometimes 3 mics, two on the kit (only because stereo was getting popular) and a bass drum mic. But on some songs there was only one kit mic and a bass drum one. I distinctly remember panning from centre for the normal kit, to left for the beginning of a tom roll, then on through to the centre and then right for the rest of the roll, then quickly back to centre for the normal beat again. Pretty high tech! Had to be fast, though. Jimmy also helped with occasional fader moves or pans when there was too much for me to do alone (no automation, of course, and I still don't really like automation).
For guitars, I think there were Neumann "pencil" mics on acoustics, either 84's or their predecessors, or perhaps 86's, if they were around by then. Electrics would vary from 47 or 67 on softer sounds to EV or Shure on louder ones. A great story from Jimmy was that he did the amazing solo on "Since I've Been Loving You" as an overdub in one take, through some strange amp that had been left in the studio by another group, with no real "messing around with the sound." Just plug in and go...there was a second take attempt, but it couldn't be bettered. Now I think this is one of the best rock guitar solos ever...such feeling. Another story was that Jimmy said A. Johns had some secret technique to get doubling effects, or delays, that he (JP) didn't remember, but he wanted to use it. So I called Andy to find it out, He really didn't want to divukge this, but jimmy insisted, so he told me that he'd turn the tape around backwards and "pre delay" a sound (with a tape delay), then turn the tape back right and "undelay" it with varispeed tape delay to get the right timing. Worked like a charm.
As for mic pre's...no one ever heard of, or thought of, any outboard mic pre's then...that's what the console was for. It was full of mic pre's...so we used them. As nostalgic, vintage, or mythological as it may seem to people now to have worked in these (supposedly) golden days with all that vintage gear, it just wasn't thought of in that way at that time. We just used what we had, and did the best we could. That's the same thing I'm doing today, only it's not with Jimmy Page, and some (but not all) of the gear is newer. Again, the console at Ardent was a SpectraSonics. This one was not one of the ones built by Dilly in Utah, but by Welton Jetton in Memphis, under license from Dilly, and using Dilly's spec'd parts. It was simple, and sounded great. But not a lot of the "features" known today. We did also have some SpectraSonics limiters, which I always thought were OK, a bit "hard," but not as good as my 176's. I think the console at Olympic was a Helios, so those would have been the pre's there.
Anyway, we mixed to 1/4" tape. There were some extra mixes, which I still have today on the original 1/4", that we thought were WAY too radical to use...no one would have accepted them, we thought. I hear them now and wonder what the differences really were! I then took the masters to Auditronics (also owned by Mr. Jetton) for mastering. I made all the decisions on EQ, comp, etc., approved by Jimmy, who was also there. Peter Grant was present as well. I remember that the first time I got "that feeling" that this was something special (I never think much about this sort of thing while in the recording or mixing process, because there's just too much to do) was when I went to the bathroom down the hall while "Loving You" was playin out of the mastering room door. It sounded pretty good, and I realized that Plant's vocal was awfully distinctive on this one.
We cut several sets of parts, and I inscribed the sayings into the lead out groove spaces (very carefully). Jimmy was a huge fan of Aleister Crowley, the "first hippy," and Crowley's philosphies. He had given me the books, which I read, and was interested in, but I found it a little too free and unrestricted, that one could do anything one wanted. I remember asking Jimmy at mastering if it was OK to kill someone if you "felt like it." He wasn't amused. But I wrote "Do what Thou Wilt" on one side of one set, and "Shall Be The Whole of The Law" on the other side of the same set. I remember writing "So mote it Be" on one side of another set, but I've forgotten the rest. We joked that with different things written on different lacquers, real fans would have to buy 2 or more records to complete the set! This was absurdly funny to us, as we couldn't imagine anything like that might really happen.
Then I took the masters, carefully boxed in grouped sets, and put them in the trunk of John Fry's Mercedes, and drove them to Nashville where LZ was playing their next show. There I gave them to Peter Grant, who had them delivered by hand to the various pressing plants. Atlantic never saw them, nor had anything to do with them, at Peter's insistence.
Everyone asks "Wow, what was it like to work with Zeppelin," and I can only answer that it was just like today, only the people and songs were different. Usually it is only with hindsight that things seem historical, or become mythologized. One great thing Jimmy did I will never forget. When the LZ3 album covers came back from the printing plant, to be joined with the vinyl pressings, Jimmy looked at the for approval, and found that they had left off the credit for me that he had written to be there. So he had them all destroyed, and completely re-printed to include my credit! What a guy! And these were pretty expensive and involved covers, with the spinning photo wheel and all!
Well, that's a lot for now. Maybe I'll think of some other stories later...got to get back to more vocal comping.
Best to all,
Terry
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So there you have it, but I must say I'm unsure about the accuracy of Terry's recollections having seen Jimmy with The Yardbirds. The Dick Clark Caravan of Stars tour ran from 10/28/66 thru 11/27/66 and the closest TN gig to Memphis was the University of Tennessee Field House in Martin, TN on 11/17/66 (about 136 miles away). I've never seen any confirmation of them having played in Murray, KY but it may well have been during their eight-day North American tour without Jeff which ran 12/26/66 thru 1/2/67 as five of the seven cities remain a mystery to this day. I am looking into this further.
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I think that the confusion of the legitimacy of the back injury comes from the BBC and Rolling Stone Magazine reporting that Jimmy performed on Saturday and on a Monday Jay Leno show without apparent injury or problems. So the media fuled the speculation that he really wasn't injured.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/881209.stm
http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/jimmyp...ck_crowes_shows
Oh, I see. Well, they ought know he flew back to L.A. following the Albuquerque gig on
Saturday night. Injury was made known privately on Sunday, and he made his decision to proceed with the Mon, 5pm taping of 'The Tonight Show' at that same time. Even
so, all remaining dates were subsequently cancelled.
Performing 'The Wanton Song' for tv may or may not have aggravated it, but the fact
of the matter is he knew he was injured before walking into NBC Studios in Burbank.
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Hi, first post in this thread which I enjoy reading on a regular basis. Now a question about something that's a mystery to me at least. Page's back injury has been discussed here before. I've seen people hinting on different forums that the back injury was not the real reason for Page backing out of the Black Crowes collaboration. Any truth to these rumours? If so, can they be discussed here?
It was indeed a back injury which resulted in cancellation of all 40 remaining tour dates arranged from August 13 - December 12 2000. At end of the year Jimmy left England
for Florida where he continued to undergo physical therapy for several more weeks. All
I have refrained from posting to this forum is how the injury occured, as it is a source
of embarrassment to him.
Having said all that, the assertion he simply bailed out is absurd given the ramifications
cancelling the tour had. Not to mention they'd just resumed the tour on the west coast after a one month break. Had he wanted to end the collaboration he could have done so from the comfort of home in England, well before that leg of the tour.
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I don't think Robert was referring to Zeppelin, but more to the originators of early rock and roll. He mentions "4 guys kicking ass with a stand-up bass." Implying that this great form of music has devolved into the band Genesis and the like. It's pretty certain Jonesy wasn't using the stand-up bass on those initial jams on Gerrard Street.
If he said that then your assessment makes perfect sense, and I agree completely.
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Steve,
Probably, a typo on your part, but Robert's performance along with Brian Setzer was December, 1984 and not 1985. I'm quite certain that is correct. Since, the Honeydrippers' album was released in 1984, that would make sense.
While we're on the subject of this, Robert performed Elvis' Rockin' At Midnight (formerly Good Rockin' Tonight) and Santa Claus Is Back In Town on the show. Is that the only Christmas Song Robert or anyone else in Led Zeppelin has ever performed from the Led Zeppelin days onward? Think about that for a while. That could be a tough one.
That's correct - December 15, 1984. Ahmet had called Robert a few weeks prior to this performance to inform him 'The Honeydrippers Volume One' had sold 100,000 copies. A commercial success beyond their wildest expectations, with 'Sea of Love' becoming a hit single.
I can't think of any other Christmas songs the members of Led Zeppelin have performed
publicly or on record. Perhaps I've overlooked one, but it's really not their forte.
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Here's a couple interesting questions put forward to me via private email. I thought I'd post them here:
1.) When Robert Plant performed with guitarist Brian Setzer (among others) on Saturday Night Live in December 1985 there was a sign behind the left side of the drummer stating "band for hire". The sign stated to contact Ahmet with a phone number. Obviously, the phone number couldn't have been legit and probably went to a regular switchboard.
Would you (or anyone else) happen to know if the sign was Robert's idea?
2.) The 1970 soundtrack to the film Homer has Led Zeppelin's How Many More Times on it. I know the band is protective of their work, was the use of that song authorized?
3.) I have an Unledded promotional interview with Robert and Jimmy and Robert mentions that "it all this started with four guys above a hardware store". I was curious if that is the site on Gerrard Street?
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I'll start by saying I know an advertisement has been found confirming there was studio rehearsal space for rent at that location (39 Gerrard Street). Haven't seen confirmation
the rehearsal room was above a hardware store. However, if my memory is correct the
structure does have a second floor.
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In the classic 1932 film The Mummy starring Boris Karloff there are scenes within the tomb
accompanied by a droning tune sounding very similar to Led Zeppelin's Kashmir, released 43 years later.
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Pizza for Spicoli !
Oh my sides!
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if we're getting into jimmy's past medical operations; didnt he have some work done on his knee as well? any others?
Back injury on 8/13/00 requiring constant therapy thru March 2001 (perhaps longer).
Insurance considerations stemming from cancellation of the ZoCrowes tour necessited he not make any public performances for six months.
Slower than anticipated recovery from knee surgery in May/Jun 2006 cited as the reason for cancellation of pre-announced jam with Robert Plant at Ahmet Ertegun tribute in Montreux (6/29/06) and cancellation of a pre-announced performance of songs from Harper's album 'Stormcock' with Roy Harper in Clapham, England (8/5/06).
Clearly has had dental ('90s) and eye work ('00s) done along the way. He looks good!
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Jimmy has been known to trap his finger in the doors of trains, fall over and break fingers. But ten years or so ago he was admitted to hospital for a stomach operation, I never read anymore about it, but was wondering what it was, maybe appendicitis?
No, it was a twisted colon and the surgery was done the third week of August '88. This
caused four dates of his tour starting the following month to be affected.
Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones
in Led Zeppelin Master Forum
Posted
It's a pleasure to collaborate with others on this site. No worries.