ally Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 And I can appreciate that, especially from Ronnie's perspective. However, as a tax payer I have another perspective, and that is of opposing unions that end up costing me more money. I have a friend who is city council member in a suburb near Los Angeles. He does this job for no actually salary, although he does get a couple hundred dollars per month for expenses. But anyway, to hear him talk about the manner in which some of the city workers unions burden the city budget at the expense of everyone else is shocking. For example: the police union sued the city because they wanted an extra half hour before and after their shifts (one hour total per day) in overtime to compensate them for putting on their uniforms. Can you believe that? Who gets paid for getting dressed for work? Well, the city found itself in a position due to the budget to not fight the union because of the legal costs. The solution ended up being that the police officers got paid for getting dressed/undressed but not on overtime as the city could not afford that. Basically the officers end up working one less hour per shift (five hours less per week) so that the taxpayers can pay them to get dressed. And who suffers if their are cops actually needed on the streets rather than in the locker room? I have to say that I am against all labor unions. I agree that the taxpayer has to be considered in any set of public sector negotiations Del. I'm guessing that most of the public sector union member's feel the same way. More often than not though , public sector work stoppages are a by product of poor management and political posturing as opposed to outrageous union demands. Mind you, that demand you speak of by the police is outrageous...lol A limited COLA clause and longer term contracts would go a long way to solving public sector work stoppages but my guess is that the politicians invoved in these negotiations don't want to lose the right to throw there employee's out on the street to cover up their poor management skills. That would make them accountable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I have to say that I am against all labor unions. Them bad unions you know the ones that brought us the "WEEKENDS" and a Fair Wage and health benefits. Rollin' the bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronniedawg Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah J Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Them bad unions you know the ones that brought us the "WEEKENDS" and a Fair Wage and health benefits. Rollin' the bones I am for them because they support the workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Zeppnile Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I agree that the taxpayer has to be considered in any set of public sector negotiations Del. I'm guessing that most of the public sector union member's feel the same way. More often than not though , public sector work stoppages are a by product of poor management and political posturing as opposed to outrageous union demands. Mind you, that demand you speak of by the police is outrageous...lol A limited COLA clause and longer term contracts would go a long way to solving public sector work stoppages but my guess is that the politicians invoved in these negotiations don't want to lose the right to throw there employee's out on the street to cover up their poor management skills. That would make them accountable Or politicians just pander for union votes just like everything else. Them bad unions you know the ones that brought us the "WEEKENDS" and a Fair Wage and health benefits. Rollin' the bones I always find it funny what unions consider to be a "fair wage." When auto assemply plant workers living in Michigan (not Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York mind you) are able to extort a wage and benefits package that pay $75 dollars an hour WITH A HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION; then something just isn't adding up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Or politicians just pander for union votes just like everything else. Not in this neck of the woods. The organized labour vote has been split for 3 decades now. Nation wide, I'd say it's the same. I always find it funny what unions consider to be a "fair wage." When auto assemply plant workers living in Michigan (not Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York mind you) are able to extort a wage and benefits package that pay $75 dollars an hour WITH A HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION; then something just isn't adding up. Your salary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Or politicians just pander for union votes just like everything else. I always find it funny what unions consider to be a "fair wage." When auto assemply plant workers living in Michigan (not Los Angeles, San Francisco or New York mind you) are able to extort a wage and benefits package that pay $75 dollars an hour WITH A HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION; then something just isn't adding up. I always find it disgusting when CEO's make millions in bonus payments when the company is going down the drain an taking peoples hard earned retirement with them. And all a politician need do is get re-elected once and retires with full pay and benefits when the average joe works 30 or more years for a percentage of his salary and hopes that his benefits mainly health care will be there for them when they reach retirement age, a time when those benefits will be needed most. Trust me I work in a field where the work is labor intensive and with out my sick leave and annual leave I would not be able to have a paycheck. Even with that I will soon be going back to work in a light duty capacity so I can stretch out what leave I have left. I have a High School Ed. followed up with a couple of Technical College diplomas so even though I landed a Unionized Government job I always felt like I've earned especially since I'm a Non Veteran white dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah J Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I always find it disgusting when CEO's make millions in bonus payments when the company is going down the drain an taking peoples hard earned retirement with them. And all a politician need do is get re-elected once and retires with full pay and benefits when the average joe works 30 or more years for a percentage of his salary and hopes that his benefits mainly health care will be there for them when they reach retirement age, a time when those benefits will be needed most. Trust me I work in a field where the work is labor intensive and with out my sick leave and annual leave I would not be able to have a paycheck. Even with that I will soon be going back to work in a light duty capacity so I can stretch out what leave I have left. I have a High School Ed. followed up with a couple of Technical College diplomas so even though I landed a Unionized Government job I always felt like I've earned especially since I'm a Non Veteran white dude. Hello Dzldoc! Hope all went well yesterday for you. I totally agree. People think it's socialism to set guidlines on these companies and CEO compensation...when they have obviously proven that they cannot do the right thing without guidlines. GREED. How they can take the amount of money in bonuses when a company is failing and the workers are getting laid off in my opinion is criminal! I have been working now for 32 years and still have at least 12 more to go before early retirement and 15 for full as I do not work for a Union and there will be no pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronniedawg Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 You walk into the office one day, sit down and the boss comes to each one of you, starting with Bob (who is Police), "gonna give you a 3% raise for the next three years". Then he goes to Pete (who is Fire), "gonna give you a 3% raise for the next three years". Then he's goes to Habib (who is Transit) "gonna give you a 3% raise for the next three years". Then he goes to Jenny (who is Housing) "gonna give you a 3% raise for the next three years and two extra days off per year". Then he gets to you (your Public Works), and says; "Im not going to give you a raise, I'm gonna take away your sick time, limit your benefits, take away your seniority rights - even though you're second on the totem pole (so-to-speak), and we're gonna talk about another 149 issues......oh, and btw, I (City Council), gave myself a 3% raise for this year alone cos you know....we're in a recession". How would you feel, and if there was something you could do (other than quit), would you? I did, and rightfully so......and that is exactly what happened in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 You walk into the office one day, sit down and the boss comes to each one of you, starting with Bob (who is Police), "gonna give you a 3% raise for the next three years". Then he goes to Pete (who is Fire), "gonna give you a 3% raise for the next three years". Then he's goes to Habib (who is Transit) "gonna give you a 3% raise for the next three years". Then he goes to Jenny (who is Housing) "gonna give you a 3% raise for the next three years and two extra days off per year". Then he gets to you (your Public Works), and says; "Im not going to give you a raise, I'm gonna take away your sick time, limit your benefits, take away your seniority rights - even though you're second on the totem pole (so-to-speak), and we're gonna talk about another 149 issues......oh, and btw, I (City Council), gave myself a 3% raise for this year alone cos you know....we're in a recession". How would you feel, and if there was something you could do (other than quit), would you? I did, and rightfully so......and that is exactly what happened in Toronto. I'd do what you did RD. You guy's were targeted this time and to just roll over and accept it would have meant the end of your bargaining power....forever. It would also have spelled the end for the other groups that you mentioned. You never really had a choice my man. You did the right thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah J Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 You walk into the office one day, sit down and the boss comes to each one of you, starting with Bob (who is Police), "gonna give you a 3% raise for the next three years". Then he goes to Pete (who is Fire), "gonna give you a 3% raise for the next three years". Then he's goes to Habib (who is Transit) "gonna give you a 3% raise for the next three years". Then he goes to Jenny (who is Housing) "gonna give you a 3% raise for the next three years and two extra days off per year". Then he gets to you (your Public Works), and says; "Im not going to give you a raise, I'm gonna take away your sick time, limit your benefits, take away your seniority rights - even though you're second on the totem pole (so-to-speak), and we're gonna talk about another 149 issues......oh, and btw, I (City Council), gave myself a 3% raise for this year alone cos you know....we're in a recession". How would you feel, and if there was something you could do (other than quit), would you? I did, and rightfully so......and that is exactly what happened in Toronto. Hello Ronnie! Can't blame you one bit for quiting. Yet another example of GREED and mis-management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I always find it disgusting when CEO's make millions in bonus payments when the company is going down the drain an taking peoples hard earned retirement with them. And all a politician need do is get re-elected once and retires with full pay and benefits when the average joe works 30 or more years for a percentage of his salary and hopes that his benefits mainly health care will be there for them when they reach retirement age, a time when those benefits will be needed most. Trust me I work in a field where the work is labor intensive and with out my sick leave and annual leave I would not be able to have a paycheck. Even with that I will soon be going back to work in a light duty capacity so I can stretch out what leave I have left. I have a High School Ed. followed up with a couple of Technical College diplomas so even though I landed a Unionized Government job I always felt like I've earned especially since I'm a Non Veteran white dude. I'll bet that you even have a bit of a work ethic Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronniedawg Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 Im still here actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah J Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Im still here actually I believe standing up for what is right is the right thing to do. Respect the heck out of you for it!!!Hope it works out soon for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronniedawg Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 I have twenty-one years in and not going anywhere for the time being - going to college at the moment to take courses which will bring me into a Supervisory position with this or another municipality. .......and I think I'm gonna go fishing this weekend with the little man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliet Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Hi ronnie: Good to see you are hangin in there and not suffering any ill effects from the clean-up.... Have a great weekend fishin' with your little man..hope ya catch some big ones... Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronniedawg Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 Thanks Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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