Grantham will get a Margaret Thatcher statue and permanent exhibition

[Anjin-san]

I am from the North of England. I need to say no more than that.

Hi chill,this being an international forum,can you explain that? I don't keep up with every countries 'disputes'

Educate us.

[Winni]

Hi chill,this being an international forum,can you explain that? I don't keep up with every countries 'disputes'

Educate us.

She dessimated the north. Ruined the industry, crushed the unions - to this day many northern towns, which for hundreds of years had thrived with local industry and productivity are now ghosts of their fomer selves.

[Ace Of Spades]

She dessimated the north. Ruined the industry, crushed the unions - to this day many northern towns, which for hundreds of years had thrived with local industry and productivity are now ghosts of their fomer selves.

So that had nothing to do with deregulation and global competition?

[Anjin-san]

Lords

>She dessimated the north.<

I see, and the Parliament,nor the House of Lords did nothing?

>Ruined the industry, crushed the unions -

Bad joss the unions.

>to this day many northern towns, which for hundreds of years had thrived with local industry and productivity are now ghosts of their former selves.<

What have done about it?

[redrum]

'We will fight to the last drop of blood!'----Argentine Military

Falkland Islands---'Never have so many, fought so much, for so little!'

[sam.e138]

According to Wikipedia Thatcher said:

"I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand "I have a problem, it is the Government's job to cope with it!" or "I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!" "I am homeless, the Government must house me!" and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations."

I think she is right. We probably need more straight talk like that, but no reason to wish her dead.

She was right, but this woman's only "duty to look after" was to look after her rich friends while single-handedly killing off a large portion of Britain's manufacturing industries and turning previously nationalised services to private hands who then began the process of hiking prices up for the things we all need and now look at the State of the Nation. Utility companies making multi-million profits while pensioners have to choose between eating and heating. She was the first in a short line of PMs who've toadied to business interests and war-mongers (the glorious Falklands War!) while ignoring the needs of the people they're supposed to be running the country for. There is talk of her getting a State funeral, more expense for a woman hated by many in this country. When she goes they should cremate her and dump her ashes somewhere then use the money saved on her funeral for a giant piss-up for everybody.

[chillumpuffer]

When Thatcher was elected in 1979 the country to be fair was in a mess. Labour as is their want spent and borrowed and taxation, espeically high for earners, was sky high. Think Plants comments at Earls Court - " Dennis, dear Dennis (Healy - Chancellor at the time), no artists in the country anymore...." This was because of the 90% tax,or whattever it was, was hurting people who earned a lot of money.

This artice from The Guardian newspaper sums it up - Politically

It was 20 years ago today, that Sergeant Margaret taught her band to play. A full two decades have past since the voters of Britain made history on that sunny May 3 of 1979, choosing the country's first woman prime minister - and launching a whole new epoch in our national life. By the next morning a high-voiced Mrs Thatcher stood outside Number Ten in a bright-blue suit, quoting St Francis of Assisi. She promised that, where there was discord, she would bring harmony; where there was despair, she would bring hope.

It was a big promise, but she did not fulfil it. Her 11 and a half years in Downing Street were not placid ones; they were probably the most divisive years of the post-war era. Too many Britons felt they were discarded, like so much unwanted waste, by an economic policy that regarded the winding down of manufacturing industry and the tripling of unemployment as mere collateral damage in an otherwise just war. There was a hardening of the heart in those years, a thinning of the subtle, almost invisible threads of neighbourliness and common interest which ultimately tie a society together. Greed seemed to replace compassion as a core value.

What else remains of the Thatcher legacy? Near the top of the debit column must come Britain's bruised relationship with the rest of Europe. Her rhetoric of 'no, no, no' may not have been matched by reality, but it widened the gap between us and our partners. If one of the great errors of British post-war policy was the failure to join early, and to shape, the European project, then Margaret Thatcher bears more blame than most.

A second failure wrought its damage closer to home. The great reforming prime minister never turned her Thatcherite eye on the political institutions of Britain. So while she promised to 'roll back the frontiers of the state' from the economy, she did nothing to shrink the role of the central government from the rest of our lives. On the contrary, she was a compulsive centraliser. So while she wanted Whitehall out of the boardroom, she maintained its hold on Scotland - which she ruled like a troublesome colony - and expanded its reach in the capital, by abolishing the Greater London Council. She was hell bent on bringing democracy to the trade unions, but was quite happy to keep the House of Lords as an unreformed closed shop. Clearing up the mess she left behind has been left to the current Labour Government, that has sought to make amends in all three areas.

Socially though it was a dreadful time. She crushed the unions, especially the miners. The coalfields closed leaving thousands without jobs. Even worse of course was these mining towns,mainly in the North of England and South Wales, relied on the mines for employment. No thought was given to how people in these small towns and villages would be able to find work. Benefits were cut and social unrest began to grow.

You can hear it in the music of the time. UB40 "One in Ten" reflecting the unemployment rate at the time. The Specials "Ghost Town" :

This town is coming like a ghost town.

Why must the youth fight against themselves?

Government leaving the youth on the shelf

This place is coming like a ghost town

No job to be found in this country

Can't go on no more

Riots hit the streets, The Police had draconan powers to stop and search ( which was widely abused especially, but not wholey, against young black youths). Many felt that the money was in the hands of the few and opportunities were being wasted.

Drugs of course went hand in hand. There was a massive explosion in the use of heroin which of couse brings with it a whole new problem.

Travellers and festival goers were subjected to victimisation and this lead ultimately to the Criminal Justice Bill which was pushed through by John Major'sTory party in the 90's basically outlawing gatherings of more than 12 people listening to music with a repetitive beat ( hilarious)

Thatcher also introduced "The Poll Tax" or community charge which was basically a tax on living. It favoured the rich who under the old "rates"system paid more because of the larger and more expensive the house the more you paid. Here is an example of how ridiculous it was, this is from personal experience:

We all lived in the same town. Prices at 1990

The CP's lived in a 2 bedroomed terraced house. Value @ £30,000

Old Rates: £20 month

Poll Tax: 2 people in the same house. 2 x £40 month

Mrs CP's Father:

4 Bedroom Detached House. Value £120,000

Old Rates: £150 month

Poll Tax: 2 people in the same house 2 x £40 month

The country exploded. Around 250,000 gathered in London on 31/03/1990 and some of the worst post war rioting was witnessed on that day. For me it was a result. The tax was eventually scrapped and many people, including the CP's refused to pay.

Then she privitiesed the utility companies. This of course lead to profiteering for the shareholders and higher bills. It is still a bone of contention today. She allowed "Council houses" to be purchased. This lead to the opportunity to own your own home again putting the poorest of society back further as there was a lack of social housing.

To sum up: Thatcher was neither a friend of the working class or the youth. She caused some of the worst civil unrest ever seen in this country and opened up the North/South divide which is even more wider now than it was then. The unions, love them or hate them, were there to protect the workers. I totally understand the view that unions could hold the country to ransom and the power they had got way too much, but you can't shut industries like that unless you can provide an alternative.

And then there are The Falklands..........

[Ace Of Spades]

@chillumpuffer

a few points about your post:

1. the UK is much better off to be insulated from the EU economic policies. Greece!

2. investing in private company stocks that are making profits affords more financial releif than waiting for a check in the mail

3. the Falkland Islands are British territory.

4. 90% tax rates are ridiculous. Robert Plant was correct to note that with rates like that people leave the country. How much tax do you collect then?

[chillumpuffer]

Ace:

The points I made were my feelings as to what Thatcher did for me and many working class people in the North of the country at the time.

Europe: I don't get it half the time. We are either in or out. We opt out of things. I don't really give a shit to be honest.

I understand you can't have one size fits all but the way the Conservatives hived off the Utilities, putting profit before any thing else, was very narrow minded. As a consequence, this is the 21st Century and we have very high gas and electricity prices. Private companies make millions a year in profit whilst the poorest and, very worringly pensioners, struggle to pay bills and heat their homes. Eat or heat is a very common phrase you hear. And worse still many of these companies are not British and therefore pay little, if at all, tax. Sometimes makes me wonder if the utility companies were state owned how much profit would be going back into the economy?

If you had asked the population of Britain in 1982 where the Falkland Islands were, I bet only a handful would have known. I certainly didn't know. The one thing it did though was bolster the fortunes of a Government in decline and Thatcher went on to win another term.

I don't understand you tax question. Do you mean how much tax do i pay? I am self employed and do not wish to answer that question.

It's horses for courses. As far as my memory goes the 80's were a decade of loads of money for the few and not much else for John Public. Social unrest, unemployment, hard drugs, inner city riots etc etc.

[Ace Of Spades]

Ace:

The points I made were my feelings as to what Thatcher did for me and many working class people in the North of the country at the time.

Europe: I don't get it half the time. We are either in or out. We opt out of things. I don't really give a shit to be honest.

I understand you can't have one size fits all but the way the Conservatives hived off the Utilities, putting profit before any thing else, was very narrow minded. As a consequence, this is the 21st Century and we have very high gas and electricity prices. Private companies make millions a year in profit whilst the poorest and, very worringly pensioners, struggle to pay bills and heat their homes. Eat or heat is a very common phrase you hear. And worse still many of these companies are not British and therefore pay little, if at all, tax. Sometimes makes me wonder if the utility companies were state owned how much profit would be going back into the economy?

If you had asked the population of Britain in 1982 where the Falkland Islands were, I bet only a handful would have known. I certainly didn't know. The one thing it did though was bolster the fortunes of a Government in decline and Thatcher went on to win another term.

I don't understand you tax question. Do you mean how much tax do i pay? I am self employed and do not wish to answer that question.

It's horses for courses. As far as my memory goes the 80's were a decade of loads of money for the few and not much else for John Public. Social unrest, unemployment, hard drugs, inner city riots etc etc.

Chillumpuffer,

My point about the 90% tax rates was that the higher these rates get for the wealthy, the more likely they are to leave the country, and then no taxes are collected. The revenue must then be found elsewhere. It becomes then an ever increasing tax monste, and is counter productive.

On energy costs:

By the economic rules of 'suppy & demand' as the demand increases and the supply decreases--- the price goes up. Energy costs have increased around the world as more nations have impacted the demand. What you are describing to me is government subsidised energy. But that does not not lower the cost of the energy, just who pays that cost. The poorest need to be cared for, but if one can pay more, they should. Otherwise you or I pay more. If people want government to take care of them they could move to Cuba or North Korea. Extreme point I know. But the UK is a free democracy. Maggie Thatcher was only operating on that principle from what I can tell.

I am not a consevative in the political sense of the word. But I am conservative on fiscal policy. As I look foward to my own opportunities in life, I am not very enthusiastic about having the government make all my decisions for me. On that point I have to say I agree with Maggie.

On the Falkland Islands:

From what I read on this the islands are British territory and always been British. Argentina during a time of political and military turmoil decided to take these islands by force. Thatcher did what any prime minister should have done in my opinion. It would be like someone attempting to occupy the United States territory of the Virgin Islands; we would be forced to respond. You can't blame Thatcher for the Falkland islands war. What do you feel the response should have been?

[JimmyPage's#1FAN!]

GOD BLESS MAGGIE THATCHER!!

An Irish toast to her soul.

THE IRON LADY RESTS IN PEACE.

Bold and decisive.That she was.

She was the right leader at the right time.

To the haters:

History ALWAYS trumps leftist ideology.

Like Brother MALCOLM X said "It's time to crush the radical left, by any means necessary". Ha! (He did say that...right?) Does anybody remember laughter?!?!