IpMan
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The Robbie Krieger Band played at the Orpheum in Flagstaff, AZ the night of January 19th. The wife and I went however there was a blizzard and the whole crowd was maybe 100 people max. The place was almost empty. Everyone was almost on the damn stage that is how close we all were. I was hoping Krieger would play some solo stuff or flamenco but the whole show was exclusively Doors songs. I love the Doors (they are in my top five bands) but I will admit I was a bit disappointed. Krieger played well, sounded exactly like he did in the Doors and had a good backing band...except for the singer! His son was the singer and he was a complete douche. Standing up there in black leathers and dark sunglasses trying to act intense and instead completely missed the mark. His singing was ok, it was his presence and actions which kinda soured the experience.
Krieger was a very gracious guy and engaged the audience often so I asked him if he would indulge us with some of his excellent flamenco work. Robbie obliged and played an extended Spanish Caravan which was the best song of the night.
I may have been a wee bit disappointed, but I would also have gladly paid the admission just to hear that one song. No regrets except that I was way to young to have seen the doors live, unless I pulled a Stewie and jetted off to NOLA in Dec 1970 to see their last show at the age of 2.
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On 3/24/2017 at 6:06 PM, Mithril46 said:
What you said about the punks was very insightful. Funnily enough there's a Jimmy Page interview before Knebworth
where he recalls reading letters from fans. The fans mentioned punk but said they got into Zep because of the musical
content. Certainly bands like the Clash, The Damned, and Black Flag etc. had some good musicianship. Still, punk bands
mostly were very repetitive and were not designed for more than a 30-45 minute set. A good thing in a way, but limited
in other ways. I think some of the huge bands of the 70's adopted some of the new technology of the 80's, but totally
changing their approach, hmmm.... . Queen definetly did it, but the Stones, Floyd IMO just tried to not repeat themselves.
Actually a band like Asia(except for the keys player) totally went from prog epics to hummable top 40 hits, as to an extent
did Yes. But many dropped the forced change back to the original vision(Santana,the Kinks(quite abruptly)etc.,.
Good stuff. Also, there was a huge difference between East coast punk like the Ramones and west Coast punk like the Germs. The East coast stuff melded well with the New Wave and many were interchangeable with it. The West coast punk however was looking to burn shit down! Those were some crazy mofo's on the West coast and would beat the living shit outta you if you even mentioned the Talking Heads.
The Stones and Floyd just sucked in the 80's and that includes The Wall. The Stones Tattoo You was their last good album but it was not great. Floyd became a snooze fest. Queen was the only stand out as their musical influences were so diverse they had much to pull from. Queen's final albums were perhaps the best stuff they ever did. There is a reason old Robert chose to sing Innuendo at the Freddie Mercury tribute, it is one of Queen's best and most ambitious songs.
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Ugh, Ratt sucks!!! They should have taken Ratt, Hanoi Rocks, Poison, Warrant, White Lion, and Europe, placed them in a bus and drove it off a cliff. The 80's would have been 100% better right there.
Might as well toss Survivor and REO Speedwagon on as well. I love 70's era REO but when they put out I can't Fight this Feeling they won free booking on the death bus.
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Heart in Your Hand is my favorite off the album and one of my favorite songs Page & Plant did including Zeppelin. The two unreleased tracks, The Window and Whiskey from the Glass, are my next favorites off the album and really should have been included. Not sure what guitar Paged used on HIYH but it sounds like a Gibson Birdland or possibly a 335, a very hollow-body sound that I really like and gives the song so much depth and space.
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3 hours ago, sam_webmaster said:
This was taken in New Orleans in Feb/March 1975, while they stayed there during some time off. I have a couple of other photos of this jam as well.
Mardi Gras?
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7 minutes ago, paplbojo said:
1) What makes you think he was insecure in the beginning? By Royal Albert Hall he had a confidence and stage presence that could not be rivaled, so I assume you mean in '69 (though the shrieking of course would continue well past then).
2) Why would being insecure correlate with shrieking? I'd think that insecurity would make him quieter and less boisterous than he'd otherwise be.
I just don't see the relation between his actions and a claim of him being insecure, and I don't see the relation between insecurity and pushing yourself to the limit. I'd appreciate some clarification.
Insecure in regard not to his ability but in regard to the longevity of the band. Robert came from a very middle class family, he did not have the upper middle class upbringing that Jones & Page had. When you grow up under such circumstance you tend to have a "better get what I can, when I can" attitude. So, I believe he pushed himself to his limits and beyond vocally to give the best show possible and keep em coming back so to speak. The scene back then was brutal, up until the fourth album, any tour could have easily been the last tour, the last record and he knew that. There were AMAZING bands back then like Blue Cheer, the MC5, Camel, etc that put out groundbreaking music but made little money and went nowhere. They had their year or two and...Poof, gone. So I figure Plant thought he should set it at 11 and run in the red non-stop, that is until his motor blew.
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As much as I like and respect Robert he sure does talk some shit, and, his prior musical collaborators typically do not remember the times fondly and have an open dislike for Robert (Robbie Blunt & Phil Johnstone come to mind).
I am beginning to believe Robert changing bands every few albums may have more to do with his personality than with him wanting to pursue different musical directions.
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Not only should the appeal be denied, but Robert, Jimmy, and Jones attorney should counter with a vexatious litigant claim of their own. I am sure that would stop this bullshit dead in its tracks...permanently.
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3 hours ago, the chase said:
The only song JPJ received a writing credit for on Presence was Royal Orleans. No doubt for the amazing main riff... yes that's a Bass lick.
What did Robert do with it? He embarrassed the shit out of his bandmate by writing a tale about a friend who wakes up kissing whiskers in a hotel fire.
Was this good natured ribbing, ball busting or a nasty jab? Not sure, possibly all. But with the shit all 4 of them must have had on each other, it's a little weird that that incident was made into a song.
Wasn't Living Loving Maid about an old (over 16...ha, ha) groupie that Robert balled all night long yet the night ended in frustration because he could not get her off? I read that somewhere, do not remember where. Of course the song does not mention those embarrassing details as I am sure it damaged old Robert's pride. So, we have Robert embarrassing Jonsey in RO and Robert pissing on Jimmy in Carouselambra. It appears he left Bonzo alone, most likely out of fear of a nasty ass kicking as I doubt Bonzo would have been down with being the brunt of a perpetual joke or jab.
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I wonder how Plant's personality takes criticism? I ask this because as Jones was the only classically trained musician within Zeppelin, it was likely Jones who would nix a musical idea which he knew would not work on a musical theory level. Having no formal musical training himself Plant may have taken some of Jones criticism personally. In other words, Plant may have looked upon Jones as an insufferable know it all. The whole Black Country good old boy rubbing against the stuffy London professional. Plus, Jones went his own way and was not known to partake in much of the Zep shenanigans compared to the other three. Plant may have thought Jones a bit of a snob.
I figure Plant and Jones got on well during ITTOD as they had more in common with each other at that particular moment in time, but once Zep ended, they drifted apart.
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21 hours ago, Strider said:
I was not talking about 'random Google sites'. I was talking about very specific interviews Robert gave about the inception of the Un-Ledded project to real journalists for real media publications...not some keyboard warrior in his underwear in his mother's basement.
Boiled down simply...the Un-Ledded thing first began as on offer from MTV to do an Un-Plugged episode. Somehow by someone, Jimmy Page got mentioned as a possible collaborator. Robert Plant was nervous about working with Jimmy again. How would they mesh personally and professionally after all those years apart. There was also still the pain of past wounds for Plant to deal with. To add John Paul Jones to that mix would have been too much for Plant to deal with at one time. First he wanted to see if Page and him could get on with each other.
As for the "parking cars" remark...that is Plant's humour, you can either take it with a grain of salt or take umbrage. He has always been that way. Personally, I think he meant that answer more for the reporter asking the question than towards Jones. It was Plant's way of short-circuiting any "Zep reunion" questions.
I liked the Un-Ledded sessions...it was thrilling to hear the Egyptian orchestra behind Four Sticks and Kashmir. The 1995 tour was amazing...I haven't heard the LA Forum that loud since the days of Zeppelin.
But hey, if it still sticks in your craw that Jones was not invited and you think there is some nefarious reason Plant has it in for Jones, then try this on for size. The reason is Plant never forgave Jones for switching to the Alembic basses in 1977 and littering the shows with alien fart noises.
I know this is asking quite a lot but, do you remember how those Alembic's sounded live? I heard that neither the soundboards nor the aud recording do them justice. After all, if they sounded so shitty, why were so many great players using them in the late 70's?
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3 hours ago, ArmsofAtlas1977 said:
Instrumentalists can keep getting better and better as they age. Unfortunately for singers, the instrument ages with them (and not in a good way.)
Worse than that, Led Zeppelin were reckless, and Robert did not take care of his voice at all. No warming up beforehand, smoking and drinking during shows and an unfortunate tendency towards pushing his limits for the sake of showboating. On top of that, the tours were ridiculously relentless. Their European Tour in the spring of 1970 was 15 shows in 18 days, and by that point the shows were two hours or more. He also famously continued to tour despite vocal complications like the flu. Yes, cancelled shows are a mess, but you've got to put the long-term needs of the band first.
Things like Robert's voice make me wish we could take a time machine back to manage the band better. Peter Grant got them their money, but also failed to prevent so much damage to the band themselves. At the risk of getting too off-topic, I won't get into here, but it really is too bad!
I agree almost completely with what you posted, except for the poor management part in the early (68'-71') days. You have to understand, this time period was a very chaotic one in music history, they were essentially learning as they went along. Of course as mentioned above if a performer now gets even a sniffle, they cancelled shows for a full week. I wish Zep would have done the same but rock music in particular was very fickle back then. I bet Robert felt the need to push it every night in fear that it might very well be the last tour, even as late as 75'. We can look back now and wonder why they did what they did but Robert was both very green and somewhat insecure in the beginning. Regarding the drinking, smoking, and no warm ups for his voice, that is a different story. Even then everyone knew how the great Maria Callas ruined her voice through smoking and booze and late night's. Robert, or at least those around him, should have known better. Then again I could see Janice telling Robert the reason her voice was so good was due to constant infusion of SoCo & cigs, so, there is that.
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3 hours ago, morningson said:
Cocaine eyes. Wow.
Pupils...who needs pupils?
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1 minute ago, Mook said:
Apologies, yes - it appears I misunderstood the tone of your earlier post.
The real irony here is I may be guilty on my judgement of some of Plant's remarks, while I try to explain my own.
We humans are a funny bunch indeed.
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1 minute ago, Mook said:
I agree, it just amazes me how angry some people seem to get about it all.
For the record, I think some of the Page & Plant stuff was amazing, the Kashmir with the orchestra, The Truth Explodes & Thank You are things I often go back to watch on Youtube, would it have been much better with John Paul Jones? Maybe, but you can see why they went ahead without him. The other boy was a great bass player too.
I think tone and affect are lost on the keyboard to a certain point as I believe what you infer as anger is simply observation and nothing more. Honestly, unless someone is dropping F bombs or typing in all caps, or being downright insulting, I do not sense anger at all in these posts.
Yes, Charlie Jones was / is a great bass player in his own right. I have no problem with nepotism if the bloke can do the job well and is held to the same standards as the others. Though if I were in Charlie's shoes I would worry every time me and the wife got into an argument, I may get my walking papers from Plant.
Plant: Sorry Charlie, you pissed off my sweet little muffin princess, gotta let you go mate. Hey, do you by any change have Paul Martinez's number???
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Vocal surgery happened in late 73'. You can hear the difference in tone, much less range, in the early 74' rough mixes off of PG. The rough mix of In the Light (Everybody Makes it Through) is the most obvious. I would venture to speculate Plant began singing and rehearsing for PG way too early and should have rested his voice a good six months before starting the album sessions. Plant should have also hired a vocal coach as well to aid in the transition, to learn to use what he had to the best of his ability and protect what was left. Oh well, that was the 70's for ya.
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The idea that the P & P tours were not up to Zeppelin standards is silly. Was Jimmy being so drunk and smacked out while touring in 77' up to Zep standards? Were the fans who showed up in Tempe in 77' given a show up to Zep standards? As Mith pointed out above, Page's playing, especially during the 98' tour, was easily as good (in my opinion better), as his best live playing in Zeppelin. The band was tight, focused, yet loose enough to allow Jimmy to jam and Robert sounded very good.
That being said, Robert was a right nasty twat for his quips to Jones. Northern humor...fuck that BS, I don't buy it and that alone is somewhat of an insult to Jones as well. Plant knew exactly what he was saying and did so on purpose. After all, when one takes the piss it is done in response to the others boast or others comment. One cannot take the piss when the other is not even present, nor the other ever having made a comment. Then, calling it No Quarter, fuck, thats not rubbing salt into the wound that's pissing on it.
As much as I love Robert the man can be very immature for such a intelligent guy. His directed insults to Jonesy, his endless remarks about a Zep reunion post O2 that were just baiting and insincere (Oh, ask the Capricorns'; if Jimmy will do an all acoustic...blah, blah, blah). There are times that Robert's ego trumps the feelings of both friends and fans alike. I have always stuck by and defended Plant's refusal to reform Zep, it shows integrity and class and I admire anyone willing to do their own thing vs. what they know will sell. I just don't know what possesses Robert to be a dick about it as well at times.
The irony is if Jimmy really wanted to have a Zep reunion tour I know exactly how to get Robert not only on board but licking Jimmy's balls to do so. Release a statement to the press that he (Jimmy), JPJ, and Jason will reform Zeppelin to tour with David Coverdale on vocals.
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47 minutes ago, craigled said:
I know, Quite the opposite in fact. I am sure i will be allowed to say that.
HEY!!!! You cannot say that !!!!
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15 hours ago, ThreeSticks said:
I asked this in another thread, but it never got answered.....
In The Hammer Of The Gods, Davis talks about a conversation that took place between Cole and Page backstage in LA on the ARMS tour. Cole asked Page, "So how's fatso (meaning Grant). Jimmy replied, "I fired that fatso (bleep) (bleep) (bleep)." You get the idea. It wasn't very complementary towards Grant.
Unless Page states otherwise, I believe this is a complete fabrication by Cole, and an inexcusable one at that.
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Did Page not attend a guitar clinic of some sort around 74' which was taught / hosted by John McLaughlin? One thing I noticed about several of Page's live solos from 75' on is his use of dissonant notes and counterpoint. He never did that prior to the 75' tour. Zappa started doing the same stuff, almost identical to Page at this time.
I think Page would have been great with Davis, however they could have both OD'd as well. Talk about Toxic Twins
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Excellent points everyone and I agree there would be a good possibility of a hiatus / solo projects yet keep the band together until the muse strikes.
Kelly: I did not mean to infer Plant's ego is so fragile, more along the lines of trying to escape a legacy and just be known for what he does. Think of it this way, imagine some great actor marries an even more acclaimed actress. They have a great life together however wind up moving in different directions and divorcing. Now, 36 years later the actor is still referred to as Mr. Whatever his ex wife name was. That could be a bit of a rub.
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Well it sure speaks volumes that Plant released Pictures in June of 82' whereas the last Zep album, Coda, was not released until November of the same year.
Regardless of Bonzo's passing, Robert was done with one foot out the door by the announcement of the American gig's. I stand by my original assertion that after the second leg of the NA tour scheduled for early 81' Plant would have left the group. Not just because he was fed up, though I am sure it played a part, but because he wanted a solo career really bad. Plant would rather fail doing his own thing than succeed playing (or perceived to be playing) second fiddle to Jimmy. I also believe that is why he wanted to do the Page / Plant thing in the 90's. Without JPJ he reasoned it was NOT a Zep reunion, it was Plant & Page. Call it ego or self-determination or respect for Bonzo but I think Plant is scared shitless to reform Zep for one last go, not because of the whole jukebox thing, but because it would be extremely successful, and more of the Jimmy show. I think that would really bother Plant, the fact that Zep would completely overshadow his solo work and his identity as a solo artist. The only way Plant would agree to a one last go Zep tour would be if he were broke, and he is far, far from that so, goodnight Irene.
Anyone who believes Zep would have carried on post-March 1981 is living in fantasy land. Plant & Jones would have carried on exactly as they did, the only question is would Jimmy and Bonzo have teamed up to do their own thing?
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On 2/26/2017 at 8:39 AM, Mook said:
So we should just let some people earn 100 times what other people earn?
No, capitalism is destroying the World and people defending it are the problem.
I believe in a middle ground with a graduated tax schedule capping out at 70% max per the Laffer Curve.
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24 minutes ago, porgie66 said:
Are those suits an homage to opiates , a sort of embroidered smack art? Or did Jimmy just like dragons and poppies?? Did he ever talk about them in detail?
I would think so, it makes logical sense as one is a direct reference (poppies), and the other is a strong metaphor (dragons) to Opioids. Jimmy pretty much took the concept Nudie has developed in the late 60's with his designs and threw poppies and dragons on them. They were a 70's fad and was adopted by the glam rock artists in particular. Thank god the fashion died by the late 70's and Jimmy ditched them as I too thought all except the black dragon suit were ridiculous, but even that suit should have been retired after 75'.
Led Zeppelin in the months following Bonzo's passing
in Led Zeppelin Master Forum
Posted
Yes, they weigh about 13 lbs. The guitar is more awkward than heavy IMO.