"Rock" is far from dead. Not sure what U2 has to do with anything other than the news that Bono has thirty new songs ready to go. U2 aren't the only rock n' roll band on the planet.

Natalie Merchant

The Huguenots I Would Say

Madonna lip synchs in concert. I can't take any "artist" seriously that does that. When I go to a live show I'm not paying to see someone not sing, I am paying to see an actual live performance.

Probably one of my favorite musical decades with artists like Los Lobos, Stevie Ray Vaughan, R.E.M., the Cure, the Replacements, Peter Tosh, Bob Marley, the Itals, Lone Justice, X, Dwight Yoakam, Steve Earle, Nanci Griffith, Black Uhuru, the Blasters, 10,000 Maniacs, the Church, etc. I discovered most of them by simply listening to FM radio and from my tenure at a college radio station. In other words, I didn't have to look hard to find any of them.

I belong to music lists, message boards and go to concerts frequently. That is how I discover new artists. The best way is still word of mouth, just as it's always been. I have never confined my tastes to new, old or just one style of music and I hope to hell I never do.

I hate to break it to you but it still means artists on an independent label, it is not a genre of music. The artists that record for independent labels cover the spectrum musically so there's no way their sound could be summed up in just one sentence because none of them share a certain sound.

It is your opinion, I've made that clear from the start and there's no disputing that. My frustration lies with your inability to comprehend the concept that there is indeed very worthy music being made today. Music that is just as worthy of your attention as Led Zeppelin was in the 70s. Just think, if you had held the attitude that another decade prior to the 70s was best, would you have ever even bothered to listen to Led Zeppelin when they were new? If you close your ears to what's happening currently you are missing out on the opportunity to expand your musical horizons. I am just glad I don't share that attitude.

Wikipedia is not an accurate source of information. "Indie" is no more a genre of music than "Classic Rock". "Indie" is in reference to an artist being on an independent label. "Classic Rock" is a radio format.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, trying to have a conversation with this person is absolutely futile.

I must ask, have you even bothered to read any of your own comments, particularly the second post you made in this thread, you know, the one where you said, "The newer stuff is shamefull (sic) compared to music of the seventies. It does not even compare"? This was before I even joined the conversation. When I did enter into this thread my question to you was to name the current artists you've listened to that caused you to reach the above conclusion. All you have done since then is to outright avoid the question at hand. Want to answer that with yet another question? Go ahead, it will only go to show you that haven't a leg to stand on this discussion. In other words, I asked you first and in kind, I expect a response. Instead I get more questions and more attempts on your part to avoid the question I posed to you. Answer that and I will be more than forthcoming with the artists I feel are noteworthy today.

Please remind all of us again who the combative one is? I've asked you in the most polite manner I know how to name the current artists you've listened to that have caused you to form the opinion that there is no good music today. So far all you've managed to do is lash out at folks and avoid the question. You have every right to that opinion but your inability to back it up with examples shows you've chosen a very weak argument.

I have heard that before and have no doubt it's true but haven't you been banned again since then and are now back again under yet another persona? No, you're not but who ever said you were? I didn't get that memo. I do? Remind me again how many usernames you've had and just how many times you've been banned from this board? Yeah, you're right. That must make me the combative one. You say criticize I say "disagree". Thus far you haven't. You've answered a question with a question but you've yet to name any current artists you've listened to. Out of one side of your mouth you said, "The newer stuff is shamefull (sic) compared to music of the seventies. It does not even compare." Then, out of the other side of your mouth you state, "I have heard bits and pieces and I will admit I probably have not heard enough to make a fair judgement." Then, you go on to say, "I still have not heard anything recent that is as good as the music from super groups like Led zepplein, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Stones, Eagles, or lets even say Steely Dan, Beach Boys, Tull, Aerosmith, Purple, and on and on." So, have you or have you not actually listened to any current music? The way you continue to dodge the question I'm guessing you haven't.

I agree that's usually the case but this time we have an adult that grew up on Zeppelin who firmly believes the best decade for music was the 70s and nothing that's being made now is worthy of attention. Of course, you also have to take into account that this person hasn't even made an attempt to actually listen to any current artists. Each decade has it's noteworthy artists but as you so succinctly point out, no decade is exempt from teenybopper artists either. What confounds me to no end is how any fan of Zeppelin can be so narrow minded when they were a band that thrived on innovation and openly welcomed a wide range of diverse musical styles into their repertoire. Even during the height of the punk era Page had no problem saying he loved The Damned. While I don't expect every fan to share Zeppelin's varied taste in music (both on and off the stage) I still find it baffling to encounter so many fans that only want to hear the familiar and don't want to be challenged by anything new or different.

Considering the poster that started the thread hasn't joined the conversation at all, I would consider it spam. As far as the direction the thread has gone in, no one can control that (not even the person that started the thread). Conversations tend to veer off-topic in person, the same holds true for message boards. However, it is the subject line even if the actual post is spam for some band.

No, I didn't. Why should I?

Yes, I did which came across as spam to me, particularly since so many other threads this person has started were also filled with spam.

Take a deep breath and step away from the computer for a few moments. Once you've cleared your head, go back and read this thread again. I mean, really read it, then respond. You'll notice I never said that your are going to get banned. Nor did I say anything about "arranging" it. You seem to think I have some sort of vendetta against you and that I've somehow had something to do with your being banned from here before. Feel free to contact Sam (and/or any of the other Moderators of this board) and you'll soon learn that I have never had anything to do with you being banned. You have always managed to bring that upon yourself by going off half-cocked on various members of this board and by defending another person who always returns here even though they know they are not welcome. So, get over your paranoia with me already. I am not a threat to you but apparently you are a threat to yourself or else you wouldn't have been banned multiple times. Please read this part very carefully, I am not saying you have done anything to get banned. What I am saying is, going by your track record here it will only be a matter of time before you're banned again. Again, I reiterate that I hope you aren't but your track record proves otherwise. I haven't "attacked" you. Disagree with you? Yes, but attack? No. That perception is all in your head. Still, you haven't made a case for why today's music is so bad. When called on it you can't even name an artist you've listened to that has caused you to form this opinion yet you go on and on about how the 70s was the best period for music, ever. If you are going to come on a message board and state such an opinion you should be able to back it up with reasons why but you are unable to do that. It's a perfectly valid opinion to hold but with no reasoning to back it up it comes across as yet another blanket statement. I've given you my answer. Now, try this on for size. If I am such a difficult person and am truly guilty of attacking you (and reporting you to Admin as you somehow seem to think) then how come I am a member of this board in good standing and have been since around 2001 or so? I joined this board with the username "Jahfin" and have had it ever since. You, on the other hand have been banned so many times that you can't even keep up with the number of usernames you've had. According to you, you've been welcomed back by Admin under the condition that you will behave. Your history here says otherwise.

There is more music available to us these days than ever before but the means by which we obtain it has changed. The newest form is actually an old one (vinyl), which has been making a very substantial comeback over the past few years. It's proof positive that music consumers are definitely still interested in the packaging side of things. It's very cool to know that liner notes and album artwork aren't things of the past, that music fans still treasure that aspect of buying a new record. Independent labels have always been around, they're just more prevalent these days due to the collapse of most of the major labels. What's happening is artists gaining control whereas before they had little to none so there's less pressure to give into the woes of the record label. This is a very positive move forward as that is exactly where the control should lie, with the artists themselves. If you are having trouble finding new music all I can say is, you must not be trying hard enough to find it because it is everywhere. I'm an avid music fan and find it next to impossible to keep up with all of the new music I'd like to own. The artist you named (I'm not sure who "the like" is referring to) banks solely on nostalgia these days. That's not a knock on Pat Benatar as I think she's a great artist but sadly, it's the truth. Same goes for many other artists that are considered "Classic Rock" (whatever that is). For the most part, their audience doesn't want to hear anything new so they give them what they want. What you end up with is a nostalgia act. Personally, I have no interest whatsoever in seeing that. If indeed you are referring to artists from the 60s, 70s and 80s, many of them are still recording and releasing albums as well as touring extensively. XM's Deep Tracks channel does an outstanding job of playing these artists without coming across as a "Classic Rock" only channel that's stuck in the past. Mainstream radio won't touch those releases because they only want the tried and true because they're only interested in generating revenue. They could give a shit about the music. That's the main thing that's changed. Labels used to have an Artist Development department where new acts were nurtured until they found an audience. Now, if you don't have a Top Ten hit straight out of the box, the labels will drop them like a hot potato and move on to the next act.

I'm not saying you've done anything to deserve to be banned, I'm going by your track record at this board. If past experience is any indication it will only be a matter of time. I sincerely hope you are able to remain but so far, that hasn't been the case.

Hard to do considering how many usernames you've had here but I did it. Speaking of which, just how many usernames have you had? And what keeps you coming back to a place where you know you'll be banned again? Which is exactly my point. Why make such a blanket statement when you haven't even taken the time to seek out new artists? With that attitude it makes me wonder how you even got into Led Zeppelin in the first place. If there was ever a band that helped knock down doors, it was them. That's why I'm at a loss to why so many of their fans want to stick to the tried and true when Led Zeppelin was about anything but that. I'm confused. On the one hand you readily admit to not actively seeking out new music but on the other you say you have. Again, I ask what artists have you heard? Personally I don't think any one time period represents the "peak" of good music whether we're talking rock n' roll, country, bluegrass, reggae or whatever. There are artists out there today that are making music that is just as vital (if not more so) than anything from the past. I honestly feel badly for those of you that have confined yourselves to only liking music from one specific time period (and/or style). There is so much music out there to enjoy and discover, it's a real shame to learn that so many Zeppelin fans have confined themselves to the past and are unwilling to accept the fact that there is indeed some very noteworthy music being made today.

Over the past decade or so we have all been privy to the collapse of the music industry as we once knew it. More and more artists are taking matters into their own hands, thus wrestling away the control the labels once had over them. I am looking forward to the day when these industry weasels are out of a job and artists are in complete control of their careers. That is how it should be. I'm not sure if you've seen the Rush documentary Beyond the Lighted Stage but there's a segment in there where their label asks them to make a record that will fit next to bands like Bad Company and REO Speedwagon on the radio. They flat out refuse and make 2112 which turned out to be their biggest success at that stage of their career. Far too many artists give into record company pressure and end up compromising their artistic integrity for the sake of the almighty dollar. 2112 is but one of many shining examples of what can happen when you tell your record label to go fuck themselves. I love the Grateful Dead but feel mostly the same way about Phish. It's not that I can't stand them, I'm just not into them. I saw them once around '91 when they were still playing clubs and was impressed but not enough to become a fan. Even though I'm a fan of the Grateful Dead and the Allman Brothers I've never been a huge "jam band" fan. A few exceptions would be Donna the Buffalo, Widespread Panic and the Yonder Mountain String Band. Other than that, I've just never been able to get into the near endless noodling. Yes, the Grateful Dead were also very guilty of that but what they also brought to the table was the songwriting of Robert Hunter. His narratives are the stuff of movies or novels and can stand on their own without the benefit of the music. I'm not so sure that could be said of many of the other artists that fall under the "jam band" category today. Like Zeppelin, the Grateful Dead were that brief blip on the radar but while they were here they both had a very profound influence on music and culture. One that's inescapable to this very day.

If you make a blanket statement such as that Rick (just how many times have you been banned now?) you should fully expect a response whether it be from me or anyone else on this board. Instead of getting defensive, how about actually answering the question. If you have such a hatred for music made outside of the decade of the 1970s surely you have a good reason for it. The reason I find this so hard to comprehend (whether it comes from your or anyone else) is because there are a precious few of us here that embrace new music. Led Zeppelin were all about challenging the norm and blazing new trails whether it was how they conducted themselves business-wise (which actually had more to do with Mr. Grant) or how they incorporated various musical styles from around the globe into their own sound. How some fans of this band can be so narrow minded and forever stuck in the past is what boggles my mind. I'm not saying we should all like the same types of music, I'm simply wondering how someone could love a band like Zeppelin but will confine their musical tastes to one time period or musical style. It makes me wonder how some of these people even stumbled upon Zeppelin in the first place.

The same way someone can also not like Zep, the Beatles, the Stones, Elvis Presley, etc. I think "hate" is a very strong word. Definitely one I would not apply to music. There are artists I favor and some I don't like so much but there are none I outright hate. "Indie" is not a type of music. It's an indication that an artist is on an independent record label. I love new music and crave it constantly. The joy of discovering that new artist I just can't stop listening to is what attracts me. Unfortunately I seem to be in the minority on this board when it comes to that. For a band that was as original and groundbreaking as Led Zeppelin, they have some of the most narrow minded fans I've ever encountered when it comes to embracing other music styles and current music.

Yeah, there was some bad production back then (particularly the prevalence of drum machines) but it may be even worse now because of compression.