Bonham's Groove Influence!

[Bonham]

I know where Bonham got his groove now! I've always heard about the man and his influence on one obvious song 'Fool in the Rain' but actually seeing him, which I never bothered to before, made it quite apparant why Bonham was so good:

Bernard Purdie (He's so fun!!)

Bernard Purdie's Shuffle part 1

Bernard Purdie's Shufflle part 2

And finally...

Bernard Purdie Drum Solo

I love that guy.

[Honeydripper]

"Watch those ghost notes!!" Bernard is awsome!! He MADE the album Aja (Steely Dan) for me! According to Fagen, he showed up in the studio, set up his kit, and in front of it he put up a sign that said, "That's right, you just hired the hitmaker, Bernard Purdie!"

For some more Bonham influences, check out my last post of this thread. http://forums.ledzeppelin.com//index.php?showtopic=876

Overall, Bonham was the first to do many things.....IN ROCK........but to a Big Band/Jazz enthusiast...it's old news.

[Bonham]

"Watch those ghost notes!!" Bernard is awsome!! He MADE the album Aja (Steely Dan) for me! According to Fagen, he showed up in the studio, set up his kit, and in front of it he put up a sign that said, "That's right, you just hired the hitmaker, Bernard Purdie!"

For some more Bonham influences, check out my last post of this thread. http://forums.ledzeppelin.com//index.php?showtopic=876

Overall, Bonham was the first to do many things.....IN ROCK........but to a Big Band/Jazz enthusiast...it's old news.

Yea, that was a great post, man!

And what you say rings true to me, as well. A little story of how I got here for you now:

I actually started off liking just popular, manufactured rock such as Papa Roach, Korn etc... I was only 15-16 mind you. I discovered Nirvana around the age of 16, which was good, because love them or hate them, Nirvana were actually the first real group that meant more to me than any other band, and was actually the time I started to understand music properly and expand upon it.

That's when Dave Grohl became a massive influence on my drumming and I was primarily a hard rock drummer; there was something about Grohl's playing, it was more than his playing it was his charisma and energy as well, and he still is a big influence on me to this day. But if it were not for him, I would not have found Bonham. So, essentially what happened to me was - I was born into a world filled with pop trends and lame music, but instead of following these trends I actually worked my music tastes backwards.

I went from the 90's all the way back to the 60's, even 50's in some cases. And I feel so priviledged to have been able to follow my idol's influences. Listening to Led Zeppelin broadened my horizens so much and instead of being that solid, one-dimensional rock drummer I always wanted to be, I actually discovered the beauty of all the music I've been missing. And now, thanks to Bonham I'm listening to the music of his idols and I'm only learning more everytime. So I'm loving music more than ever now!

[Tea41]

Purdie claims he played on 21 Beatles tracks and not Ringo, especially lots of the early stuff. There's been some controversy over this, but for what it's worth, here's an excerpt from Max Weinberg's book "The Big Beat" where he interviewed Bernard Purdie:

MW: You played on the Beatles' tracks?

BP: Twenty-one of them.

MW: Do you remember which ones?

BP: Ummmhmmm.

MW: Which ones?

BP: That's information I don't disclose.

MW: Why won't you name the tracks?

BP: Because, if I need that information to get me some money, then I'll have what's necessary. I also played on songs by the Animals, the Monkees--

MW: Everyone knows the Monkees were a fabricated band, but the Beatles--

BP: Ringo never played on anything

MW: Ringo never played on anything?

BP: Not the early Beatles stuff.

Anyway, Weinberg takes him to task on it and the up shot is that he says Brian Epstein was the one who arranged it and also paid him off to keep his mouth shut. I had the opportunity to talk to Max Weinberg about Purdie's claim and his reply was that he felt embarrassed for him.

In Ringo's chapter in the same book, Weinberg bring up Purdies claim and Ringo's reply is:

"Well then, what was I doing in the studio? I've heard that rubbish before. Everyone was expecting me to come out and fight it. You don't bother fighting that shit."

-Bill Larsen

************

This is from "Gig" magazine, 2/78 issue. An article entitled "Bernard Purdie - the REAL fifth Beatle?" (excerpts)

New york - According to Bernard Purdie, a substantial amount of the drumming on the early Beatle albums was done by him, not Ringo Starr. Purdie is a New York based session drummer, best known for his seven years with Aretha Franklin.

"I overdubbed the drumming on 21 tracks of the first three Beatle Albums", maintains Purdie. "They paid me a lot of money to keep my mouth shut, but it's been ten years, so f-- it. I guess I can talk about it."

Not many other people are talking about it however, not surprising considering what's at stake. Reached through his lawyer Bruce Grakal, Ringo "does not wish to comment". Beatles producer George Martin would only say "I did not use another drummer," and no one at Capitol-past or present-knows anything or is willing to talk about it.

"I got paid in five figures," Purdie adds, "and that was the largest amount of money I'd ever gotten in my life."

It's actually been 14 1/2 years now. Purdie told Gig that in the summer of 1963, six months before the first Beatle album was release in the U.S., he was contacted to do a session-which initially seemed like al the others he was doing at the time.

"I had never heard of the Beatles," he says, "but their manager, Brian Epstein, called me and took me down to Capitol's 46th street studio. I did all the overdubbing on the 21 songs in nine days."

After Purdie was paid his double session fee of $130 an hour, he says, "Epstein called me into his office and gave me the additional (five figure - smallest would be $10,000) check. I thought they were paying me all that money because they liked what I played. Then he told me I was being paid to keep my mouth shut."

Purdie says he signed a "contract". Does he still have it?

"The contract", he explains, "was the check that I signed and I cashed it! On the back of the check, it was spelled out what I did -'payment for services rendered'. I took up half the check. But I didn't think about making a photostated copy. It didn't mean anything to me."

He says he worked on finished tapes. The early Beatle albums had already been released in England. This could mean the original English copies have Ringo doing the drumming while the American counterparts have Purdie on some tracks, Ringo on others, and, Purdie suggests, both of them on others.

"We were only doing eight trck recording. We weren't doing sixteen or twenty-four track at the time. They had four tracks and they put me on two separate tracks. I would listen to what Ringo had played and then overdub on top of it to keep it happening."

He doesn't remember specific titles except one he calls "Yeah Yeah Yeah", which would of course be "She Loves You."

"I remember that one well", Purdie says. "That was one of the big things coming out at the time, and was the one the engineer brought my attention to."

He says he never met any of the Beatles at the time. "The only people in the studio were me, the engineer, and Brian Epstein and a few of his people."

Not George Martin?

"No. I didn't even meet George Martin until 1969 when I went to England to do some work." Purdie says he doesn't even think Martin knows what he did.

"The manager did everything", Purdie stresses. "Epstein instigated everything that had to be done. He was the one who told me to keep my mouth closed. He was the one."

...........

Purdie, who says he did the same thing for the Animals and the monkees, suggests that other alterations were done to the early Beatle albums.

"After I was finishing up one day, the engineer said they had another guitar player coming in later to do overdubs and they were paying him good money to keep his mouth shut too. I asked him who it was, and he said "keep out of that Purdie.' I never did find out who it was.

"You listen to the guitar parts on the early records," Purdie adds. "There's a different sound to a lot of them."

------------------

I don't know what really happened, as Ringo denies it all, but I figured you guys might find this interesting.

[Bonham]

Purdie claims he played on 21 Beatles tracks and not Ringo, especially lots of the early stuff. There's been some controversy over this, but for what it's worth, here's an excerpt from Max Weinberg's book "The Big Beat" where he interviewed Bernard Purdie:

MW: You played on the Beatles' tracks?

BP: Twenty-one of them.

MW: Do you remember which ones?

BP: Ummmhmmm.

MW: Which ones?

BP: That's information I don't disclose.

MW: Why won't you name the tracks?

BP: Because, if I need that information to get me some money, then I'll have what's necessary. I also played on songs by the Animals, the Monkees--

MW: Everyone knows the Monkees were a fabricated band, but the Beatles--

BP: Ringo never played on anything

MW: Ringo never played on anything?

BP: Not the early Beatles stuff.

Anyway, Weinberg takes him to task on it and the up shot is that he says Brian Epstein was the one who arranged it and also paid him off to keep his mouth shut. I had the opportunity to talk to Max Weinberg about Purdie's claim and his reply was that he felt embarrassed for him.

In Ringo's chapter in the same book, Weinberg bring up Purdies claim and Ringo's reply is:

"Well then, what was I doing in the studio? I've heard that rubbish before. Everyone was expecting me to come out and fight it. You don't bother fighting that shit."

-Bill Larsen

************

This is from "Gig" magazine, 2/78 issue. An article entitled "Bernard Purdie - the REAL fifth Beatle?" (excerpts)

New york - According to Bernard Purdie, a substantial amount of the drumming on the early Beatle albums was done by him, not Ringo Starr. Purdie is a New York based session drummer, best known for his seven years with Aretha Franklin.

"I overdubbed the drumming on 21 tracks of the first three Beatle Albums", maintains Purdie. "They paid me a lot of money to keep my mouth shut, but it's been ten years, so f-- it. I guess I can talk about it."

Not many other people are talking about it however, not surprising considering what's at stake. Reached through his lawyer Bruce Grakal, Ringo "does not wish to comment". Beatles producer George Martin would only say "I did not use another drummer," and no one at Capitol-past or present-knows anything or is willing to talk about it.

"I got paid in five figures," Purdie adds, "and that was the largest amount of money I'd ever gotten in my life."

It's actually been 14 1/2 years now. Purdie told Gig that in the summer of 1963, six months before the first Beatle album was release in the U.S., he was contacted to do a session-which initially seemed like al the others he was doing at the time.

"I had never heard of the Beatles," he says, "but their manager, Brian Epstein, called me and took me down to Capitol's 46th street studio. I did all the overdubbing on the 21 songs in nine days."

After Purdie was paid his double session fee of $130 an hour, he says, "Epstein called me into his office and gave me the additional (five figure - smallest would be $10,000) check. I thought they were paying me all that money because they liked what I played. Then he told me I was being paid to keep my mouth shut."

Purdie says he signed a "contract". Does he still have it?

"The contract", he explains, "was the check that I signed and I cashed it! On the back of the check, it was spelled out what I did -'payment for services rendered'. I took up half the check. But I didn't think about making a photostated copy. It didn't mean anything to me."

He says he worked on finished tapes. The early Beatle albums had already been released in England. This could mean the original English copies have Ringo doing the drumming while the American counterparts have Purdie on some tracks, Ringo on others, and, Purdie suggests, both of them on others.

"We were only doing eight trck recording. We weren't doing sixteen or twenty-four track at the time. They had four tracks and they put me on two separate tracks. I would listen to what Ringo had played and then overdub on top of it to keep it happening."

He doesn't remember specific titles except one he calls "Yeah Yeah Yeah", which would of course be "She Loves You."

"I remember that one well", Purdie says. "That was one of the big things coming out at the time, and was the one the engineer brought my attention to."

He says he never met any of the Beatles at the time. "The only people in the studio were me, the engineer, and Brian Epstein and a few of his people."

Not George Martin?

"No. I didn't even meet George Martin until 1969 when I went to England to do some work." Purdie says he doesn't even think Martin knows what he did.

"The manager did everything", Purdie stresses. "Epstein instigated everything that had to be done. He was the one who told me to keep my mouth closed. He was the one."

...........

Purdie, who says he did the same thing for the Animals and the monkees, suggests that other alterations were done to the early Beatle albums.

"After I was finishing up one day, the engineer said they had another guitar player coming in later to do overdubs and they were paying him good money to keep his mouth shut too. I asked him who it was, and he said "keep out of that Purdie.' I never did find out who it was.

"You listen to the guitar parts on the early records," Purdie adds. "There's a different sound to a lot of them."

------------------

I don't know what really happened, as Ringo denies it all, but I figured you guys might find this interesting.

I already knew about that, but I've never read what you've just posted before! That was a great read, and I can honestly say a big part of me now believes Purdie. I mean why would you lie about that?

[BruthaD]

yeah, Burnard was def one of them!!!!!!!

[Tea41]

I'll tell you what, one thing we know for sure is Zeppelin never had to call in anybody else to play their parts (outside of Ian Stewart and Sandy Denny on a track or two as guest appearances). Rush are like Zeppelin in that respect, you can hear they are playing all of their parts, as both bands have/had very distinctive player styles that are obvious. It would stick out like a sore thumb if anyone was "sitting in" in either band.

[Mangani]

Overall, Bonham was the first to do many things.....IN ROCK........but to a Big Band/Jazz enthusiast...it's old news.

Actually Bonham was probably the first to fuse the two together successfully.. Sure jazz drummers did the same things........but without the sound/power.

That's where Bonham became unique. He had the groove/swing but also the "OOOOMPH" to go with it.

[Tea41]

Actually Bonham was probably the first to fuse the two together successfully.. Sure jazz drummers did the same things........but without the sound/power.

That's where Bonham became unique. He had the groove/swing but also the "OOOOMPH" to go with it.

Well said.

[kirchzep27]

In regards to -bonham's influence on other drummers, i've heard his influence with his bass and snare drum, but not really many examples on his groove. But alot of -john bonham's chances to express his groove playing, has to do with material by -jimmy page and ofcourse playing live with -page and john paul jones. I think the platform of the material, gave -bonham alot of inspiration. So if the material is not there, there are alot of great drummers that just dont have that vehicle of a song to play, yet can play along really well to their favorite cover songs or whatever.

[Bonham]

Actually Bonham was probably the first to fuse the two together successfully.. Sure jazz drummers did the same things........but without the sound/power.

That's where Bonham became unique. He had the groove/swing but also the "OOOOMPH" to go with it.

You took the words right from my mouth!

In regards to -bonham's influence on other drummers, i've heard his influence with his bass and snare drum, but not really many examples on his groove. But alot of -john bonham's chances to express his groove playing, has to do with material by -jimmy page and ofcourse playing live with -page and john paul jones. I think the platform of the material, gave -bonham alot of inspiration. So if the material is not there, there are alot of great drummers that just dont have that vehicle of a song to play, yet can play along really well to their favorite cover songs or whatever.

And this is also a really good point and I agree with you holeheartedly. If it were not for the vast talent of each of the members and the space that was provided for each of them, Bonham could not have adapted in so many different ways - which is why Zeppelin were perfect as the four of them.