Jimmy as PRODUCER often seems overlooked!

[The Love That I Found]

Perhaps that's how he'd want it. After all, Zeppelin's songs are so good I think people naturally just get hooked into the primal riffs or lyrics of many of the songs and never bother to ponder specifically WHY it sounds so unique or special to them.

I've always felt Jimmy as producer was as signature and key to the timelessness of Zeppelin's records and songs as much as his obvious talents as a guitarist and songwriter. I suppose it's much like Alfred Hitchcock or any good film director. The last thing typically fawned over and sometimes even noticed is the director and yet it often has everything to do with why a film is as good as it is! I think sometimes people don't realize that or give it enough importance/thought.

Jimmy truly seemed to have (like everything about the band and its music) an almost "into the future" foresight in his producing. The fact that the songs SOUND so atmospheric, good and yet fresh and even contemporary speaks to this! It's as if he somehow was almost recording less for the moment THEN and more for how he wanted them to eternally last and sound in the future ! It's eerily almost like he foreseen the advent of "more quality mediums of music listening" another 20 years or so down the road and wanted to make music that, unlike everyone else, would outlast the current mediums of which he was recording in at the moment in time. I'm just always amazed by the "foresight" sense he had (in everything really). Because it's easy to sit here now and take for granted that the sound of a song like Your Time Is Gonna Come, Whole Lotta Love, Kashmir or The Song Remains the Same (amongst all the others) was just "always there" somehow but I feel the sounds of those songs was very intentional by Jimmy (the band). And it's extremely difficult and thus talented to write and create atmospheres and layers that will suit the future as much (if not more so) than the present! Jimmy had that gift and style in his production. It's easy for us to sit here and enjoy all their work now in modern times and just assume it had to have always existed this way. But he (and the band) didnt have the luxury of today's time (or listening mediums). He was producing these sounds and timeless ambiences back in the 1960's and early 1970's! (primarily).

I'm always amazed for instance at the pure sound and depth of a song like Whole Lotta Love! Especially when you stop to consider it is still a sound of 1969! It's easy to just take for granted today. Even beyond the trademark and legendary riff, just listen to the sound, depth and atmosphere of the song sometime. It's incredible! Not only is it mind-blowingly depth-y for 1969 but it's just as much so even today too! If not more so! And that's including the famous and wondrous middle section too - everything. It's just awesome!

I know Jimmy has commented before how right from the very first album he wanted the drums to really "breathe". Atmosphere and depth was something he always had a loving attention for and it really lives timelessly today on the songs. And yet he had the gift to make all the albums and the songs follow a seamless kind of depth, layer and atmosphere while at the same time each album was somehow quite different too! In other words the first album sounds level and largely comparable sound-wise to the last one even though each album is also quite different. A lot of bands (even great ones) have an album or two that just sounds off-level or out of place to the majority of their catalogue, often because most bands didnt always use just ONE producer. But Zeppelin's albums, while you can hear the growth and ever-onward evolution of the songs themselves, don't sound "out of whack" next to each other volume or even depth-wise. Jimmy produced very different moods and styles but always with a largely constant and seamless thread between it all...

I'd even go so far to say he's my favorite consistent/all-around popuar music producer (for what he did with his body of work in its time) that I know of. Surely several are great and timeless and I can think of isolated albums that live timelessly largely because of the production - Brian Wilson and Pet Sounds come to mind, Rubber Soul (The Beatles) by George Martin etc. Certainly the production of several classic pop singles such as those of the early girl groups done by Phil Spector or those of Motown go without saying. But I would personally put Jimmy in there just as much as anyone. And in HIS case he did every one of the albums and over a lengthy and constant period of time. Well, 10 years anyways...

The pure sound, depth and atmospheric way in which he made sure the songs came off to the listener is almost so integral to the Zeppelin music as a whole that I truly think the songs would hardly be half of what they are if it weren't for the production!

But I just had to "ramble on" here and share that alongside his more known and iconic image as stage legend, cool guitar legend and riff & songwriting genius (all of which he is) I also think his talents as producer were as important as any of them! (In my opinion...)...

[barrios]

Perhaps that's how he'd want it. After all, Zeppelin's songs are so good I think people naturally just get hooked into the primal riffs or lyrics of many of the songs and never bother to ponder specifically WHY it sounds so unique or special to them.

I've always felt Jimmy as producer was as signature and key to the timelessness of Zeppelin's records and songs as much as his obvious talents as a guitarist and songwriter. I suppose it's much like Alfred Hitchcock or any good film director. The last thing typically fawned over and sometimes even noticed is the director and yet it often has everything to do with why a film is as good as it is! I think sometimes people don't realize that or give it enough importance/thought.

Jimmy truly seemed to have (like everything about the band and its music) an almost "into the future" foresight in his producing. The fact that the songs SOUND so atmospheric, good and yet fresh and even contemporary speaks to this! It's as if he somehow was almost recording less for the moment THEN and more for how he wanted them to eternally last and sound in the future ! It's eerily almost like he foreseen the advent of "more quality mediums of music listening" another 20 years or so down the road and wanted to make music that, unlike everyone else, would outlast the current mediums of which he was recording in at the moment in time. I'm just always amazed by the "foresight" sense he had (in everything really). Because it's easy to sit here now and take for granted that the sound of a song like Your Time Is Gonna Come, Whole Lotta Love, Kashmir or The Song Remains the Same (amongst all the others) was just "always there" somehow but I feel the sounds of those songs was very intentional by Jimmy (the band). And it's extremely difficult and thus talented to write and create atmospheres and layers that will suit the future as much (if not more so) than the present! Jimmy had that gift and style in his production. It's easy for us to sit here and enjoy all their work now in modern times and just assume it had to have always existed this way. But he (and the band) didnt have the luxury of today's time (or listening mediums). He was producing these sounds and timeless ambiences back in the 1960's and early 1970's! (primarily).

I'm always amazed for instance at the pure sound and depth of a song like Whole Lotta Love! Especially when you stop to consider it is still a sound of 1969! It's easy to just take for granted today. Even beyond the trademark and legendary riff, just listen to the sound, depth and atmosphere of the song sometime. It's incredible! Not only is it mind-blowingly depth-y for 1969 but it's just as much so even today too! If not more so! And that's including the famous and wondrous middle section too - everything. It's just awesome!

I know Jimmy has commented before how right from the very first album he wanted the drums to really "breathe". Atmosphere and depth was something he always had a loving attention for and it really lives timelessly today on the songs. And yet he had the gift to make all the albums and the songs follow a seamless kind of depth, layer and atmosphere while at the same time each album was somehow quite different too! In other words the first album sounds level and largely comparable sound-wise to the last one even though each album is also quite different. A lot of bands (even great ones) have an album or two that just sounds off-level or out of place to the majority of their catalogue, often because most bands didnt always use just ONE producer. But Zeppelin's albums, while you can hear the growth and ever-onward evolution of the songs themselves, don't sound "out of whack" next to each other volume or even depth-wise. Jimmy produced very different moods and styles but always with a largely constant and seamless thread between it all...

I'd even go so far to say he's my favorite consistent/all-around popuar music producer (for what he did with his body of work in its time) that I know of. Surely several are great and timeless and I can think of isolated albums that live timelessly largely because of the production - Brian Wilson and Pet Sounds come to mind, Rubber Soul (The Beatles) by George Martin etc. Certainly the production of several classic pop singles such as those of the early girl groups done by Phil Spector or those of Motown go without saying. But I would personally put Jimmy in there just as much as anyone. And in HIS case he did every one of the albums and over a lengthy and constant period of time. Well, 10 years anyways...

The pure sound, depth and atmospheric way in which he made sure the songs came off to the listener is almost so integral to the Zeppelin music as a whole that I truly think the songs would hardly be half of what they are if it weren't for the production!

But I just had to "ramble on" here and share that alongside his more known and iconic image as stage legend, cool guitar legend and riff & songwriting genius (all of which he is) I also think his talents as producer were as important as any of them! (In my opinion...)...

i disagree, he's greatly revered as a formidable producer.

[The Love That I Found]

i disagree, he's greatly revered as a formidable producer.

Well he's greatly revered to me yes! That's why I went to the trouble to write such a sincere (I thought) tribute to him in this regard! I assume greatly revered to you too apparently and hopefully to a good number of Led Zeppelin and music lovers that would know to appreciate it obviously.

But aside from those three groups above it's been my everyday experience that his specific producing gifts are often overlooked or sparingly mentioned, certainly relative to the music itself or even just relative to his legendary talents as a guitarist and songwriter. I'm not saying his producing is not known at all or is a deep secret or anything. "Classic rock or music people" largely know (I think...). After all, most people typically just focus on the surface talents and stuff that lives on in more obvious legendary terms. Like a lot of things, people often don't go to the trouble to uncover or appreciate the subtleties and "workings" of things. Certainly popular music is no exception, to the general masses (unless, as stated, you happen to be a particularly hardcore fan and lover of a band/artist)...

But for instance, in the example I gave above, almost everyone knows (and is typically spellbound) by a riff like Whole Lotta Love. People know the song, will talk about the riff, talk about the power, talk about the wild middle section, talk about how much they love it. None of these things are false or wrong. Yet most mention them without any awareness or, for casual music lovers, sometimes even knowledge that the same genius that created and is playing it, actually produced it and is specifically behind the way it sounds to the listener.

Sure, we know (I hope). We love Led Zeppelin and appreciate the subtleties But it's been my experience that, generally speaking, a lot of music lovers (casual or otherwise) don't typically pay much attention or appreciation to why albums sound the way they do or even who it is responsible for it. That's really true for music producers (much like film directors) in general. Not just Jimmy necessarily. As one would expect, for casual purposes, most just know they love a song or know it moves them. They rarely get into who or why made it that way.

At any rate, he's an awesome and very important/caring producer (at least to me) and an enormous part of why I love Led Zeppelin's music. Was only sharing the reasons why I feel this is true...

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

Yeah, I see what your getting at but, what I think you mean is how good the sound is, not just the song's but the album as a whole.

This is where at least one person in the band who knows a lot abut gear (and knows enough about how to use it) comes in handy!

[MisterMcLov1n]

I was always under the impression that my CD copy of Presence was a very recent remaster, but it was the old 1990 version. Nuff said, really. Actually, the 1990 versions sound much better than the songs on Mothership, which are just louder.

[The Love That I Found]

I was always under the impression that my CD copy of Presence was a very recent remaster, but it was the old 1990 version. Nuff said, really. Actually, the 1990 versions sound much better than the songs on Mothership, which are just louder.

Yes, I think so too! I love the original Jimmy-remastered 1990 CD's! I still listen to those as my quality default form of Led Zeppelin on compact disc. They sound amazingly full, dynamic, warm (for a digital medium) and upfront without the more sharp, louder tinny-ness of many others CD's and remasters.

It's ironic that much like the original music at the time, Page even seemed to create the first remastering of Zeppelin on disc in a way that was "timeless", in the sense that those 1990 remasters still sound fresh and great even today (in a time, perplexingly, when a lot of modern and supposedly "improved" CD's sounds WORSE)! The whole "making CD's louder = better" mentality is just something that's truly lost on me. But what do I know...

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

Yes, I think so too! I love the original Jimmy-remastered 1990 CD's! I still listen to those as my quality default form of Led Zeppelin on compact disc. They sound amazingly full, dynamic, warm (for a digital medium) and upfront without the more sharp, louder tinny-ness of many others CD's and remasters.

It's ironic that much like the original music at the time, Page even seemed to create the first remastering of Zeppelin on disc in a way that was "timeless", in the sense that those 1990 remasters still sound fresh and great even today (in a time, perplexingly, when a lot of modern and supposedly "improved" CD's sounds WORSE)! The whole "making CD's louder = better" mentality is just something that's truly lost on me. But what do I know...

I've said this before and it's all to obvious to any one who knows even the basic's around the evolution of the recording and live sound industry in the last 50 years.

Led Zeppelin hit the world at a turning point in this business! The acoustic suspension speaker (woofer) had just been introduced to the world 2 or 3 years before and the larger format recording machine's (8 track's) where brand spanking new in 1968! The new transistorized amplifiers had only been around since 1965, all this new stuff was bound to have new uses! A few engineer's and performer's where there to find out how it all can work! There where some custom set up's around at some studio's (the big name's) but they where all for recording large orchestra's and thing's of that nature again used under sterile (only by the most leaned professional's) condition's.

Before this time a rock band would set up some gobo's and a few microphone's and just make 4 or maybe 6 track's at the most! Overdubbing and multiple track's of the same thing just wasn't some thing that was done in that time, firstly you only had so many track's to work with so you couldn't afford to wast them on putting down 4 rhythm guitar track's. but now that they had 16 tracks to play with you can start doing thing's like that.

It all depends on who had the brain's to think of, and do some thing that no one had even tried before. There where other act's that had done this sort of thing before Led Zeppelin but Led Zeppelin where reaching out in a bigger way by taking it to the limit.

Take a good listen to The Who's "Sell Out" and "Happy Jack" records, both made before Led Zeppelin's first album but, you can hear some weird stuff going on in there. I saw an interview with Pete Townsend about those session's in witch Kit Lambert was going up to the console and randomly turning the knob's as they where recording. The studio engineer's where having total shit fits over Lambert's unique producing style! But, they kept it in, they sold record's and as a bonus, made audio recording history by doing so. George Martin from the Beatles did the same thing but not quite as profound as Kit Lambert. All in all, these guy's (including Jimmy Page and some others at that time) where not going to do thing's as the normal per say way, they wanted something different!

[BUK]

Great points BLD. It certainly was a magical confluence of technology, market and genius.

[dpat]

Yes, I think so too! I love the original Jimmy-remastered 1990 CD's! I still listen to those as my quality default form of Led Zeppelin on compact disc. They sound amazingly full, dynamic, warm (for a digital medium) and upfront without the more sharp, louder tinny-ness of many others CD's and remasters.

It's ironic that much like the original music at the time, Page even seemed to create the first remastering of Zeppelin on disc in a way that was "timeless", in the sense that those 1990 remasters still sound fresh and great even today (in a time, perplexingly, when a lot of modern and supposedly "improved" CD's sounds WORSE)! The whole "making CD's louder = better" mentality is just something that's truly lost on me. But what do I know...

Do you know if the 1993 Complete Recordings has been remastered as well, or are they the same remastered versions from the 1990 "Led Zeppelin" box set?

[dpat]

I was always under the impression that my CD copy of Presence was a very recent remaster, but it was the old 1990 version. Nuff said, really. Actually, the 1990 versions sound much better than the songs on Mothership, which are just louder.

Do you know if the 1993 Complete Recordings has been remastered as well, or are they the same remastered versions from the 1990 "Led Zeppelin" box set?

[The Love That I Found]

Do you know if the 1993 Complete Recordings has been remastered as well, or are they the same remastered versions from the 1990 "Led Zeppelin" box set?

I have both of them and don't notice a big difference from the 1990 remasters (the 4 disc box set plus the two disc non-box set tracks package). There is, in some cases, a very slight "brightness" to the later individual album remasterings. Both are fine.