Wolfman Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Then again, Philly and Detroit ain't Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 This so-called Rock n Roll HOF is supposed to give credit to influential artists. Who has been more influential than Alice Cooper and KISS on glam rock, hair metal, marketing, stage shows, etc. than those two? The fact Rush isn't in there is also an outrage. Who or what did ABBA really influence? They were a bi-product of what was popular at that time and never opened any new avenues in the world of music. Plus, their success was relatively short lived as well. For me the biggest thing they were involved in was renting out their recording studio to Zep to record In Through The Outdoor. Just my opinion. This HOF really has become nothing more than a politcal joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Well there you go. Philly and Detroit aren't Europe. It's a big world. New York City, where I'm from, doesn't represent the rest of the world either. The Ramones were big in NYC, but probably not Detroit. Bob Seger the opposite of that. Abba, by several accounts I have read, have sold 360+ million records worldwide, about 20 million in the US. Kiss, by several accounts I have read, have sold close to 100 million records worldwide, about 20 million being in the US. In the US pretty much a tie, outside the USA a HUGE difference in ABBA's favor. It's there in the math who was bigger. This is not about ass kissing on my part. I like them both, Abba slightly more because they are more musically adept. I look at both bands as catchy, very cartoonish, somewhat disposable but fun music that you just sit back & enjoy. If I'm defending ABBA strongly it's simply because they're just being dismissed as fluff. Compared to Bob Dylan, then sure, but compared to Kiss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagemccartney95 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 This so-called Rock n Roll HOF is supposed to give credit to influential artists. Who has been more influential than Alice Cooper and KISS on glam rock, hair metal, marketing, stage shows, etc. than those two? The fact Rush isn't in there is also an outrage. Who or what did ABBA really influence? They were a bi-product of what was popular at that time and never opened any new avenues in the world of music. Plus, their success was relatively short lived as well. For me the biggest thing they were involved in was renting out their recording studio to Zep to record In Through The Outdoor. Just my opinion. This HOF really has become nothing more than a politcal joke. Uh, thank you! Alice Cooper, KISS, etc. have influenced many a young man to start playing the guitar, while ABBA has influenced what? The spandex industry? Rush had best be inducted soon, and before Nirvana or the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I want to see Heart be inducted, along with the Moody Blues and Yes. That ABBA, who did nothing but disco, is being inducted before bands that are truly worthy is a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Also, on who/what ABBA influenced in terms of rock, I just watched a DVD on the making of the Sex Pistols "Nevermind The Bollocks" & the main songwriter of the band Glen Matlock said he stole the riff from ABBA's "SOS" for the Pistols "Pretty Vacant". Elvis Costello admittly stole the opening off of "Dancing Queen" for his song "Oliver's Army". U2 performed ABBA songs in concert throughout the 90's. Obviously Zeppelin used their studio in 78' as ABBA had the best studio at the time & all 4 members of Zep went to a show of theirs. Can you hear their influence in Metallica? I can't but so what. Rock music is a huge genre. It can't be pigeon holed into just loud guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagemccartney95 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I never said it was all about loud guitars, it's about true influence. Has ABBA ever influenced a single band? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 There's nothing "Disco" about "Fernando". That's like saying "God Only Knows" by the Beach Boys is disco, which is exactly what ABBA was influenced by. They're not even disco, & I say that as someone who likes disco. Pure pop in the way The Beatles mainly were up to the White Album. The Beatles have more "I Want To Hold Your Hand"'s than "Helter Skelter"'s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagemccartney95 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) Explain to me how "If I Fell", "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away", and Srgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, Revolver, Rubber Soul are in the same category as "I Want to Hold Your Hand". And according to Wikipedia, "Dancing Queen" is classified as Disco/Pop. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_Queen Edited December 18, 2009 by pagemccartney95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I never said it was all about loud guitars, it's about true influence. Has ABBA ever influenced a single band? Sure, REM just to name one. Bono can't speak highly enough about their influence on U2. But to some people on this board, those 2 bands aren't "real" rock music either. That's why I mentioned loud guitars. I don't see many threads started hear about REM & U2, but you will find plenty about AC/DC or Deep Purple, of which I'm a fan of both too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagemccartney95 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 REM and U2 are real bands, I never said that they weren't. But ABBA isn't a real band, they may write, but there are more session musicians on their songs than actual band members. This is why the Monkees should never be in the HOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Explain to me how "If I Fell", "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away", and Srgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, Revolver, Rubber Soul are in the same category as "I Want to Hold Your Hand". And according to Wikipedia, "Dancing Queen" is classified as Disco/Pop. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_Queen "If I Fell" & "You've Got To Hide..." are straight up pop, regardless of the Dylan influence of the latter. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not offended by the term "pop" as others are. The whole "A Hard Day's Night" album is probably the greatest pop album ever, with the "Help" album not far behind. Pop should not be a dirty word. "Sgt Peppers"? Outside of "Within Without You" the rest of the album is pop, just in an avant garde way in some places. "When I'm 64", "With A Little Help...", "Lovely Rita", are straight up pop. "She's Leaving Home" & "A Day In The Life" have more to do with the pop of "Pet Sounds" than Little Richard & Chuck Berry. Even "...Mr. Kite". Circus music is not rock n roll. "Rubber Soul" & "Revolver" are full of pop even if that's when they started experimenting. "Norwegian Wood" is a pop song with sitar for example. "Revolver", is in my top 5 favorite albums, is chock full of pop. "Eleanor Rigby", "Here, There, & Everywhere", "Yellow Submarine", "Good Day Sunshine", "Got To Get You Into My Life", etc. "Taxman' is certainly more rocking & "Tommorrow Never Knows" is just something completely unique. I also didn't say "Dancing Queen", I said "Fernando". But since we talking in terms of the Beatles, do you think that ABBA was not an influence on "Silly Love Songs", "Coming Up", & especially "Goodnight Tonight" by McCartney & Wings? That's where the teacher becomes the pupil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagemccartney95 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) Meh, fuhgetaboutit. Edited December 18, 2009 by pagemccartney95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that is a fact. But people, don't feed the troll. Less than two months in here and how many never ending arguements started by one poster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 REM and U2 are real bands, I never said that they weren't. But ABBA isn't a real band, they may write, but there are more session musicians on their songs than actual band members. This is why the Monkees should never be in the HOF. So Steely Dan don't deserve a place in the HOF because it's just Fagen & Becker with a rotating cast of session musicians from album to album? The Stones "Exile On Main Street" really isn't a classic Stones album as most of the musicians on it are session musicians? Bill Wyman & Charlie Watts barely even play on that album. As far as the Beatles... well they certainly aren't playing all those string & horn parts themselves if any at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that is a fact. But people, don't feed the troll. Less than two months in here and how many never ending arguements started by one poster? First off, I've been here since 2007. I was on the old site since 2002. If you consider me a troll for being able to back up an arguement, that's your problem. I don't have a problem with Kiss and ABBA both being in the HOF. You do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfman Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Fuck Abba and Kiss....HOW THE HELL IS RUSH NOT IN THERE? They have more talent than just about any band ever. WTF!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagemccartney95 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) F*** Abba and Kiss....HOW THE HELL IS RUSH NOT IN THERE? They have more talent than just about any band ever. WTF!!! Thank you!!!! Where is Rush?!? Three extremely talented musicians aren't, but some disco queens are in the HOF?!?! And I will take this moment to agree with kaiser/kakdaddy. Edited December 18, 2009 by pagemccartney95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Fuck Abba and Kiss....HOW THE HELL IS RUSH NOT IN THERE? They have more talent than just about any band ever. WTF!!! Agreed . I'd like The Faces in there too over Kiss & ABBA, but that'll be my torch to carry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 And I will take this moment to agree with kaiser/kakdaddy. Well, you didn't have to agree with me, that really wasn't my point. But thank you though. ABBA is viable. Kiss is viable. Rush is viable, as are my favorites The Faces, but the HOF does come down to politics. There are artists from the 50's & 60's still waiting to get in & I feel bad for those artists. They probably never made a lot of money, they probably don't have much longer on this earth, & year after year they get passed by just hoping that they might get some recognition for something that they helped create. So Kiss & ABBA, I don't really care that much, it could have been either one of them that got in before the other but they both would pass by someone else who should already be in there. I love Eric Clapton but he is in there 3 times. The Yardbirds & Cream definately should have gotten in there as they aren't really functioning bands anymore but Clapton still has a successful solo career. Couldn't his induction as a solo artist have waited a bit for someone who proceeded him or even influenced him to go in first? And to Clapton's credit he acknowledges that injustice. When the HOF nominates artists they always choose bigger name artists for media attention to bring in more money for the actual Hall. That's just business and the HOF is a business first, a place of recognition second. Kiss will definately get in shortly. Rush would have a longer wait just because they're not the brand name that Kiss is. The Red Hot Chilli Peppers will probably get in before both even though they didn't really hit it big until 1990. It sucks but that's the way it is, thanks in part to Jann Wenner & his rag Rolling Stone. It's no coincidence that Paul Simon had a huge chunk of the HOF concerts, he is after all one of Wenner's best buddies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagemccartney95 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Jann Wenner & Rolling Stone controls the thing, eh? Crimony! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) Jann Wenner & Rolling Stone controls the thing, eh? Crimony! Not the "whole" thing but a big part of it. Ahmet Ertegun & Jann Wenner were the heads of a small commitee that decided who went in & who didn't. Since Ertegun passed on it's Wenner who mainly controls it. He threw the HOF concerts which mainly featured artists he liked while throwing in a Metallica or whomever to show there was no bias. The HOF has been criticised since about it's third year for rushing to get favored artists in before others who came before them. If the HOF simply did things strictly in a chronilogical order from the start there would be none of the problems of "this one got passed over by this one" nonsense. That's Jann Wenner. He wanted The Beatles, The Stones, etc in as soon as possible to give the HOF a spotlight that guys from bands like the the Ink Spots couldn't (I still don't think they're in). No doubt the Beatles & Stones belonged in there quickly, which Wenner did knowing that no one would dare question it, but really, they could have waited a year or two & let those other artists in first. Wenner also likes to spotlight "message" music. If it's between Warren Zevon or Ted Nugent, guess who's getting in. Wenner also likes to avoid controversy but ends up causing even more. For the class off 77', the year punk broke, he choose the Police over the Sex Pistols. I know Sting is his buddy but come on! That's why I said Sting as a solo artist will get in before other acts even though he's already in. Sting or Rush, who do you think is going to get in first? Steven Van Zant, who is on the committee, constantly pushes for arists who have been passed by more "acceptable" acts & the process disgusts him. He really pushed for the Stooges, unfortunately they could have been put in several years ago if it was done strictly chronologicaly & Ron Asheton could have enjoyed that day. Putting it all in perspective, whether someone likes Kiss over ABBA or whatever doesn't really matter, that's personal preference. They're are loads of bands that deserve to be in before both of them that aren't & that's due in large part to Jann Wenner. Edited December 18, 2009 by kaiser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbreaker Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) I agree with Kaiser (except I DO have a problem with ABBA being in the rock and roll hall of fame). Just watch this from 0:30 to 1:05 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=79789VddsB8 I've been quite mad at the Hall of fame over the past few years that in particular Iron Maiden and Judas Priest have not been even nominated yet. Edited December 18, 2009 by Starbreaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I agree with Kaiser (except I DO have a problem with ABBA being in the rock and roll hall of fame). Just watch this from 0:30 to 1:05 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=79789VddsB8 I've been quite mad at the Hall of fame over the past few years that in particular Iron Maiden and Judas Priest have not been even nominated yet. And they probably won't be. Where's the social/60's peace & love/political message of Iron Maiden & Judas Priest? That's what really turns Wenner on, not the actual music but the message. I guarantee Natalie Merchant gets in on her first nomination before Priest or Iron Maiden are even considered. How long did it take for AC/DC get on the cover of Rolling Stone? They only got put on Rolling Stone's cover for the first time ever this past year because they had the biggest opening week for a rock album in years. Twenty nine years after "Back In Black" & Rolling Stone/Jann Wenner finally considers AC/DC legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbreaker Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Oh don't get me started on Rolling Stone Magazine! Any Magazine that devotes just as much space to politics as it does to actual album reviews (half of said reviews are for greatest hits compilations and that sort of thing), has no credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danelectro59 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Oh don't get me started on Rolling Stone Magazine! Any Magazine that devotes just as much space to politics as it does to actual album reviews (half of said reviews are for greatest hits compilations and that sort of thing), has no credibility. i find RS too trendy for my tastes. although they have had some great articles (the one on Pink Floyd from 2007 comes to mind), i feel most of the content a waste of time, even for the shitter. I don't give a rats ass about Amy Winehouse, Fergie or Lady Gaga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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