Vinyl question.

[spaceman]

Hi all, I'm new here, & just found this site searching for some info. I just found an excellent copy of Led Zeppelin III yesterday (with -Do What Thou Wilt- in the deadwax), so now I have nice copies of all the original albums, up to Coda (I'll grab that when I find a clean enough copy). So my question is, on the original '76 (U.S.) issue of The Song Remains The Same, I have a copy with ST-SS-763683 vgrp, on the label itself, right above the Atlantic address. What the heck is vgrp? I know there's "usually" an MO there, which I understand is for Monarch, but I've never seen or heard of vgrp before, plus the letters are lower-case letters. Also, if anyone else here likes those old vinyl records, like I'm talking about, feel free to comment or steer me towards more info on good pressings.

[SuperDave]

Welcome to the forum spaceman!

[spaceman]

Thanks for the welcome. I just realized, I never attached a pic, like I meant to, LOL. Just makes it easier to see it, rather than trying to see it in your mind. EDIT: Holy cow, your thumbnails are HUGE here. If a mod wants to resize that, feel free, I'm a little disoriented here.

[Walter]

Yes, welcome!

[rockthing]

That, is an interesting question and the start to a great open-ended thread,

though, surely there are quite a few other vinyl threads dating back.

I didn't check.

SS 2-201 should be a US first pressing from 1976

The thing that strikes me, by looking at your photo,

is that it looks like that number at the bottom is stamped on to the label.

That may just be due to the high resolution scan.

I only have one vinyl copy of this album. It's a P-4607~8N, but

it also has a secondary matrix number at the bottom of the label, which,

I have to admit, I hadn't paid any attention to before.

P-5544N1

This number appears to be printed along with the rest of the info on the label.

Interestingly, the numbers etched into the run-off look like this:

ST-SS-7636 83-G

hand carved

followed by:

P5544N1

in set type

There are some other numbers and markings, but they probably aren't of much significance to this discussion.

(someone on Discogs is suggesting the matrix is "SJ-7536-G", but

I think that's just a misreading of the hand-written number on side 1.

The other sides are fairly clearly "SS", except side 2, which is just "ST-7636-G"....

quality control...

The point that jumps out at me is the letter "G" at the end of the hand-carved matrix number.

At first I'd thought that perhaps Mr. Page was using some sort of magickally significant lettering scheme

to designate the sides, but unfortunately all of sides end in "G"

The other thing, which I cannot verify and is nothing more than speculation on my part

is that I immediately thought of the phrase,

"Very Good Re-Press"

when I saw those letters.

I wouldn't put much stock in this theory. I'm sure it's nothing more than a coincidence.

I checked Discogs.

They have no version with those letters attached to the matrix number.

In fact, I was disappointed to see they didn't have an SS 7636 in their database at all.

It is, as mentioned above, noted as being the run-off plate number on more than one release, however.

The 3rd (very old) edition of Robert Godwin's

"The Illustrated Collector's Guide to Led Zeppelin"

notes that

Early pressings in the U.K. had the wrong Matrix number etched on the run off

Good Ol' Swan Song....

Unfortunately, Mr. Godwin doesn't list the mistaken number.

So, (not) in short, I can't solve your problem, but I can point out a few things that may help you

solve the problem yourself. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than the both of us

will come along to enlighten us.

When I saw your post it reminded me that I have a copy of LZIII that also has an "ST" preceding the original cat#.

In this case ST 33, each in a circle that slightly overlaps the other, preceding the MT 2043

which is the number of the original 1970 Nippon Grammophon press.

The ST 33 does not appear on the spine, but does appear on the label above the letter designating the side, but

not preceding the catalogue number as it does on the front of the jacket.

Incidently, this ringed ST 33 appears in slightly more bold blue than the rest of the number

This must stand for "Stereo" "331/3 RPM" .... but I can't verify that.

Did Led Zeppelin release monaural versions of their albums?

Discogs seems to indicate that this is not, in fact, part of the matrix number....

but, Discogs is a community based database, so could just as easily be

incorrect as not. There are numerous errors and inconsistencies.

Speaking of the third album, it is my favourite to listen to on vinyl.

After owning the CD for (probably) more than 15 years

I felt like I was hearing the music for the first time

when I put the needle down on an analogue copy

I'd initially bought just for the jacket.

My hypothesis from that point on was that

acoustic instruments, with their much broader dynamic range,

sound better on vinyl

while electric instruments which are naturally more compressed

sound just fine on digital formats.

Also,

be careful with that one. The metallic fasteners that allow the wheel to spin

can also leave a mark on the jacket of records stored in front of it.

I slip a small piece of cardboard between any copy of LZIII and the record next to it.

You may also notice that there will be a mark on the right side of the gatefold

from the inner part of the metallic fastener.

Wow, I haven't even logged in to these forums in over a year, much less post anything,

I'm glad I saw your topic, though. I may have learned something about my own collection

in the process of digging around for your answer.

[spaceman]

Thanks for the welcomes, and rockthing, thanks for your lengthy reply. I should have posted the actual matrix numbers too, sorry about that, there's some interesting stuff there. My first # is just like you posted above, ST-SS-763683-G, but right after that, VERY faintly, it says IGOLDISC, with (PR) on the other edge. Side 2 says ST-763684-G, faint IGOL, other edge has (PR), a small space, then GD. I didn't "miss" the SS on Side 2, it's not there. Side 3 has ST-SS-763685-G, faint IGOL, other edge (PR) & faint GD. Side 4 is ST-SS-763686-F, faint IGOL, other edge (PR) GD. It's interesting how on side 1, it says I GOLDISC, if you leave a space there. EDIT: Regarding III, I agree, it sounds excellent. I think III & Physical Graffiti are the best sounding albums, very close to each other, so tough to call one better.

[Bong-Man]

Could relate to the type of production process used to press the record.....or maybe the grade of vinyl used. I bellieve record companies were beginning to use cheap additives due to cost. Just a shot in the total dark...

[feather in the wind]

vgrp = VOCAL GROUP( SOURCE )

[rockthing]

Thanks for the welcomes, and rockthing, thanks for your lengthy reply. I should have posted the actual matrix numbers too, sorry about that, there's some interesting stuff there. My first # is just like you posted above, ST-SS-763683-G, but right after that, VERY faintly, it says IGOLDISC, with (PR) on the other edge. Side 2 says ST-763684-G, faint IGOL, other edge has (PR), a small space, then GD. I didn't "miss" the SS on Side 2, it's not there. Side 3 has ST-SS-763685-G, faint IGOL, other edge (PR) & faint GD. Side 4 is ST-SS-763686-F, faint IGOL, other edge (PR) GD. It's interesting how on side 1, it says I GOLDISC, if you leave a space there. EDIT: Regarding III, I agree, it sounds excellent. I think III & Physical Graffiti are the best sounding albums, very close to each other, so tough to call one better.

So, it looks like it could be possible that both the US and Japanese releases came from

the same Swan Song plates, who forgot to add "SS" to the matrix number on side 2.

I'll have to have a look around to see if other international issues also have those numbers.

Seems likely. The GOLDDISC thing is a bit odd. I can't really comment on that.

A reissue using the original catalogue number? dunno. It's not unheard of

(these days and in some countries... try figuring out Jamaican vinyl!!! )

though it certainly confuses the issue.

fwiw, the faint 'pr' is also present in my run-off.

I think I went way off the deep end with my last post.

It's been a while and you hit on a topic I like to go on about.

RE: Physical Graffiti.

It's so dense. There must have been tracks just adding the faintest of shades to the sound.

"In My Time of Dying" is a really good example of that.

The guitar sounds distorted, but actually, the loudest guitar is pretty much clean tone, but

there is another totally fuzzed out guitar lower in the mix that blends with the clean guitar

in a really interesting way... could be the same performance routed through different amps

and recorded simultaneously... I haven't done much research into specific recording techniques

for each song. I'm not even sure that information is available.

For convenience sake, I tend to listen to the CDs I've ripped and have in my music player (lossless).

You've got me curious about the PG vinyl on my shelf, though. III has always been my case study

for the virtues of vinyl recordings, but perhaps it's time to revisit an analogue copy of PG too.

Also, RE: vinyl quality

I think you're right. Not only era but location has an impact on the quality of the media.

The records I bought in the 80s always seemed thin and flimsy compared to

some older records I've picked up since... again, it depends some on the label too, I think.

vgrp = VOCAL GROUP( SOURCE )

Well, there ya go! Google would have saved us some trouble, as usual.

Like I said above, that number looks to have been stamped onto the label

rather than printed, but I can't say definitively that is the case.

It seems like a rather odd thing to do.

I'm curious now, did you purchase your copy of TSRTS in the US?

Being stamped with "vocal group" seems like a kind of old-fashioned thing to do,

so maybe my idea about the reissue is way off base.

Interesting find.

One of these days I'll get round to picking up the C version of In Through the Out Door.

Without that one, I have all of the different photograph angles, just not all of the different "wipe" permutations.

Copies of ITTOD come fairly cheap and I don't really care if they're first press or in good condition.

I'm just buying them for the artwork.

Money's been a little tight lately, though, so even that little bit is a kind of hard to justify right now.

There are plenty floating around, though, so I'm not worried about the supply drying up.

I'll run across it one of these days.

[spaceman]

It's kinda funny, someone else said vocal group too, in the audio forum I'm usually at, but I didn't think that really fit. (?) I don't think it'll matter a whole lot, I'll only rarely ever play this one, but it's still kinda cool to have an oddball album, I guess. Completely off-topic, but I found an old vacuum tube AM radio yesterday in a thrift store, that was made in 1951, & it still plays just fine. It needed a good cleaning though, is why I'm so slow replying here.

[LukeTheDuke]

Discog? for newbie and with a lot of mistakes

Anyway: monoaural edition? yes

For more records to see: www.vjez.com/zeppelin