ksgemini Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah I do know how to download I tunes for wife but don't download music Can't afford a lot of electronics and probably will never own a home stereo either I listen in car mainly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NealR2000 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I think the answer, or the collective best guess, has already been given. Here's my take. I have always believed that Robert wanted some degree of a solo career, even before Bonham's death. Whether this would be a Jagger-style solo career, where you juggle between a solo career while still maintaining the old one, or a complete break, we will never know. I tend to think he wanted out completely, and the death of Bonham made it happen for him. I think he wanted total artistic control and had grown tired of what Zeppelin had become, what with alcoholism, drug addiction, artistic differences, the mess that was the recording of ITTOD, etc. Once they had officially called the band quits, I believe he wanted no further Zeppelin output, and reluctantly agreed to Coda due to the contractual deal with Atlantic. Anything grander, such as a multi-disc live set, would be a complete no-no to him. He was both anti-Zep at that point, and probably felt that such a big Zep release like that would seriously detract from his own new solo career. He wanted a line in the sand, so to speak. As we know, he stance on Zep has mellowed over the years since, which explains all the various releases, and reunion shows, not to mention the Zep stuff in his sown shows and collaborations with Page. But to answer the question of why he was against the live box set, that's it. It just happened to get floated by him during probably his most anti-Zep stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Hermit Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 I think the answer, or the collective best guess, has already been given. Here's my take. I have always believed that Robert wanted some degree of a solo career, even before Bonham's death. Whether this would be a Jagger-style solo career, where you juggle between a solo career while still maintaining the old one, or a complete break, we will never know. I tend to think he wanted out completely, and the death of Bonham made it happen for him. I think he wanted total artistic control and had grown tired of what Zeppelin had become, what with alcoholism, drug addiction, artistic differences, the mess that was the recording of ITTOD, etc. Once they had officially called the band quits, I believe he wanted no further Zeppelin output, and reluctantly agreed to Coda due to the contractual deal with Atlantic. Anything grander, such as a multi-disc live set, would be a complete no-no to him. He was both anti-Zep at that point, and probably felt that such a big Zep release like that would seriously detract from his own new solo career. He wanted a line in the sand, so to speak. As we know, he stance on Zep has mellowed over the years since, which explains all the various releases, and reunion shows, not to mention the Zep stuff in his sown shows and collaborations with Page. But to answer the question of why he was against the live box set, that's it. It just happened to get floated by him during probably his most anti-Zep stance. Unfortunately, that sounds both right and totally plausible, it had less to do (probably) with any concerns he had regarding his vocal performances during the 1970's and more to do with him wanting to strike out on his own and most assuredly NOT wanting a major new Zep release - even a live one - hitting shelves and consuming media attention just as his debut solo record was out... now, if How The West Was Won had been compiled from not just the L.A. '72 shows but the L.A. '75 and '77 shows as well (if they were professionally recorded, that is), then we REALLY would have had the definitive LZ live release, I lament the fact that album has no material from either the Physical Graffiti or Presence albums/tours - no 'Kashmir', no 'In My Time of Dying', no 'Achilles Last Stand', etc - but that's just me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NealKenneth Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The reason this didn't happen was probably that Plant was against releasing anything at all. Since Coda at least had some material fans hadn't heard before, I think he was more comfortable releasing that than old concerts. In my opinion, that was a mistake. Coda is okay at best, while a live chronology would have been an epic reflection on their past. Hopefully the DVD has everything Jimmy was trying to release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmtomh Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I agree with a lot of what's been said here: Plant probably wanted to get out from under the enormous Zep shadow and didn't want to re-live the entire thing with a huge retrospective live album. Related to this, he might've felt that the live shows, which often showed the band being more excessive, heavier, and bombastic than in-studio, were not an appropriate final note given the somber mood within the band - and in Plan't own mind and heart - after Bonham's death. Fans, of course, would've snapped a multi-LP live album up in massive numbers. More specifically, if Page really was talking about the How Many More Times-Communication Breakdown medley from Southampton '73, that's an excellent performance by the band - but I can understand why Plant would never sign off on it. His had a cold/flu at the time of that show and his voice is just a mess throughout. It's a shame - so many of the band's best shows were not recorded on multitrack. On the other hand, if you look at what ended up on How the West Was Won and the LZ DVD, they are indeed fantastic shows, and Plant is in excellent voice for all of them except Earls Court - and even there, he is still in pretty good voice, and the best shape his voice was in during that year. If you combine the BBC Sessions, everything on the DVD, HWWW, The Song Remains the Same, and the Paris show on the new Zep I companion disc, that's actually a lot of live Zep: small and large shows, snippets and almost-complete shows, from 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, and 1977. The only real gap is 1977. Plus it would be nice to have more than six tracks from 1975 - for the life of me I can't understand why they never released a 3CD set of a composite, nearly complete Earls Court show. Even today if they released such a thing on CD, it would sell as fast as they could press the discs and get them out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raytuned Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The last time I heard anything about that Live project thing was back in 77.the story went that they were keen on doing a very pristine live outdoor recording using the last and final show of the 77 tour.which would have been the JFK stadium in Philly, Aug.03/77,........well we all know what happened !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Hermit Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Hopefully the DVD has everything Jimmy was trying to release. That's kinda my feelings on the whole chronological live album affair when all is said and done. Yes, that album would have been monumental in every regard, but Jimmy Page couldn't get the others to agree to it so that's that, but it (funnily enough) worked out for the better because Mr Page was able to dredge up the filmed archive material for the DVD set in 2003, and that was essentially the chronological live album only in video form... and who of us wouldn't have wished for that proverbial holy grail, a benchmark for all music video releases before or since! As for a definitive live record - and speaking as an avowed defender of the whole TSRTS project, warts and all - it would have been nice for a live album to have included material from 1975 and 1977, but the former year wasn't good to Robert Plant's voice so I can see why that wouldn't be used, and by 1977 his voice had markedly changed from pre-1974, so any live album combining earlier years with '77 would have a very different vocal range displayed throughout, perhaps leading to a somewhat jarring disconnect in the overall cohesion of the album as Plant's voice went up and down, higher and lower, depending on the tracklisting and when each track was recorded... plus Jimmy Page's playing had started getting somewhat mercurial, inconsistent, and erratic by the infamous '77 tour. The L.A. '72 tapes ultimately used for How The West Was Won were so incendiary and saw the band at their very pinnacle that it would have been a crime not to release it, and a grave disservice to dilute it with later recorded material that took away from the sheer fire and ferocity the band were spewing forth in those shows... sure, there's nothing from Physical Graffiti or Presence on the live CD, but that's what the DVD set was for... and personally speaking, I've never been totally convinced by any live rendition of 'Achilles...' that even touched the studio version, in the studio Jimmy was a sorcerer of sound who could make his single guitar sound like an orchestra, a veritable wall of sound unmatched and unequalled, try doing THAT live... I'm more than happy and content with how it all worked out - the whole 2007 remastered TSRTS soundtrack album shenanigans excepted, but that's another subject for another thread - Jimmy Page should be applauded for his tight hold on the reins of the LZ legacy, ensuring it remains undiminished and unstained, long may he continue to do so... and here's hoping Coda justifies it's existence with some new substantive archive material on the upcoming remastered version... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NealKenneth Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 As for what recordings Jimmy Page would have used in the hypothetical album, he mentioned in an interview he had release-quality tapes dating back to the Royal Albert Hall 1970, and then two for every year thereafter... Could you link to the interview where he said this? If this is true, there is definitely stuff he hasn't released yet. We've got nothing from 1980 or 1977 and almost nothing from 1971 for example. The last time I heard anything about that Live project thing was back in 77.the story went that they were keen on doing a very pristine live outdoor recording using the last and final show of the 77 tour.which would have been the JFK stadium in Philly, Aug.03/77,........well we all know what happened !! If that "two shows" quote is accurate, then this might be one of the two that he never got a chance to record. Unless he planned to record three that year? Jimmy Page should be applauded for his tight hold on the reins of the LZ legacy, ensuring it remains undiminished and unstained, long may he continue to do so... and here's hoping Coda justifies it's existence with some new substantive archive material on the upcoming remastered version... I agree with this 100%. Credit should also go to Robert Plant for having the good sense to not tour Led Zeppelin these days. I'd buy tickets in a second, but Celebration Day as a one-time memorial is magical. But Coda? I'm not holding my breath...we're going to be getting leftovers of leftovers of leftovers. Think of it this way: Physical Graffiti was new tracks plus the best stuff they hadn't released up to that point. Coda was JUST leftovers but only from Presence and In Through the Out Door (their worst albums to start with.) If there really was anything worthwhile left, Jimmy would have released it on Coda. Even including multiple live performances, it was barely over a half-hour, so there was plenty of space for other good stuff if it existed. Now this will be the SECOND time Jimmy is adding bonus tracks to it! Whatever we're getting this time can't be any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasbo Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Yes I am sure that Coda companion disc won't be anything special but i love to be surprised.I'll bet that it could all fit on the one disc since it is a short album.What I would love to see(hear!)is the companion disc be one of the final european concerts just like debut with its live album because of a lack of extra material.Any way I love Coda.I love anything by the mighty Zeppelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I think the answer, or the collective best guess, has already been given. Here's my take. I have always believed that Robert wanted some degree of a solo career, even before Bonham's death. Whether this would be a Jagger-style solo career, where you juggle between a solo career while still maintaining the old one, or a complete break, we will never know. I tend to think he wanted out completely, and the death of Bonham made it happen for him. I think he wanted total artistic control and had grown tired of what Zeppelin had become, what with alcoholism, drug addiction, artistic differences, the mess that was the recording of ITTOD, etc. Once they had officially called the band quits, I believe he wanted no further Zeppelin output, and reluctantly agreed to Coda due to the contractual deal with Atlantic. Anything grander, such as a multi-disc live set, would be a complete no-no to him. He was both anti-Zep at that point, and probably felt that such a big Zep release like that would seriously detract from his own new solo career. He wanted a line in the sand, so to speak. As we know, he stance on Zep has mellowed over the years since, which explains all the various releases, and reunion shows, not to mention the Zep stuff in his sown shows and collaborations with Page. IMO Plant couldn't have been that apprehensive about Coda- after all, he did come in and finish off "Walter's Walk"...one listen to that song will tell you that you're hearing the 1981-model Robert Plant and not the 1972 version. The credits on Coda are so misleading The one thing I've never been 100% clear on is, did Jimmy Page actually have a "chronological live album" assembled and ready to go in 1981/82? I'm thinking that if he really did (instead of just talking about and planning it) Plant might not have been as reluctant to put it out, especially if he'd sat there and actually listened to the damned thing...Robert probably would have gained the new appreciation he found for Zeppelin as a live band that he did with the 2003 DVD (which, I suppose, is the real "chronological live album", and even better in a lot of ways!) Plus it would be nice to have more than six tracks from 1975 - for the life of me I can't understand why they never released a 3CD set of a composite, nearly complete Earls Court show. Even today if they released such a thing on CD, it would sell as fast as they could press the discs and get them out the door. As would a Knebworth set. Never mind lashing together a DVD of those shows, just the goddamn triple live albums of either Earls Court and/or Knebworth would sell like hotcakes- possibly even better than How The West Was Won did. There is simply so much "legend" surrounding those particular performances that what was offered on the 2003 DVD doesn't really do them justice, and in effect is merely a teaser... Again, I'd of course be holding out for an official 1977 release, but I really don't think Page would undertake something like that without copious amounts of editing- compared to the bootlegs what we'd get would be a very watered down version probably. And maybe rightfully so...the average listener (as opposed to diehard Zeppelin fanatics) probably wouldn't dig fifteen minutes of "White Summer" and guitar noise solos and twenty plus minutes of "Moby Dick". I also couldn't see a full half hour rendition of "No Quarter" making it either. The "fast forward" buttons on a lot of CD players would be getting a workout with a full official 1977 show...Earls Court or Knebworth, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Hermit Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Could you link to the interview where he said this? If this is true, there is definitely stuff he hasn't released yet. We've got nothing from 1980 or 1977 and almost nothing from 1971 for example. Yikes, put on the spot again... I went looking for that interview online, and can't seem to find it, so very sorry. The voluminous amounts of Jimmy Page interviews and general quotations on the 'net is bewildering and I can't remember exactly what article on what site I read it on, but I do distinctly remember he said he had release-quality (my term not Jimmy's) tapes dating back to Albert Hall 1970 and then two for each year thereafter... presumably meaning professional multi-track recordings of entire shows up to and including 1980. It would be nice to have some of those shows released in their entirety - Earl's Court, Earl's Court, Earl's Court!!! (sorry, got carried away there) - but I'm happy with what we do have... The one thing I've never been 100% clear on is, did Jimmy Page actually have a "chronological live album" assembled and ready to go in 1981/82? As far as we can tell, Jimmy had been working on-and-off the chronological live album throughout the 1970's during down-time, he really got into it in late '77 after Karac's death and Robert Plant's mourning period (thinking it would be a perfect stop-gap release for the band in 1978), but nothing ever came of it and he stopped working on it soon after for whatever reason, sinking further into his alcohol and heroin addiction sadly. After Bonzo's demise and LZ owing Atlantic one more album, Page raised the live album again in band meetings but Plant vetoed it for previously-speculated reasons, and that was the end of that... in answer to your question, some tracks had been evidently selected and mixed, how many we don't know, but it was nowhere near a done deal by the time Plant kicked it to the curb in early 1981... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Could you link to the interview where he said this? If this is true, there is definitely stuff he hasn't released yet. We've got nothing from 1980 or 1977 and almost nothing from 1971 for example. Yikes, put on the spot again... I went looking for that interview online, and can't seem to find it, so very sorry. The voluminous amounts of Jimmy Page interviews and general quotations on the 'net is bewildering and I can't remember exactly what article on what site I read it on, but I do distinctly remember he said he had release-quality (my term not Jimmy's) tapes dating back to Albert Hall 1970 and then two for each year thereafter... presumably meaning professional multi-track recordings of entire shows up to and including 1980. I don't have the interviews close at hand meself, but I want to say Page first floated the subject of the "chronological live album" in the 1977 Guitar Player interview...at the very least, I believe that interview is the genesis for his oft-repeated remarks about the Albert Hall gig and the "winning" version of "No Quarter" from Earls Court. I'm sure he made further comments in later interviews as well, particularly in the immediate post-Zeppelin era. As far as we can tell, Jimmy had been working on-and-off the chronological live album throughout the 1970's during down-time, he really got into it in late '77 after Karac's death and Robert Plant's mourning period (thinking it would be a perfect stop-gap release for the band in 1978), but nothing ever came of it and he stopped working on it soon after for whatever reason, sinking further into his alcohol and heroin addiction sadly. After Bonzo's demise and LZ owing Atlantic one more album, Page raised the live album again in band meetings but Plant vetoed it for previously-speculated reasons, and that was the end of that... in answer to your question, some tracks had been evidently selected and mixed, how many we don't know, but it was nowhere near a done deal by the time Plant kicked it to the curb in early 1981... Yeah, that's how I thought it went down...thanx for clarifying, Hermit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NealKenneth Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Interesting. I was really only curious to read the interview for myself, particularly to see when he said it. If it was a 1977 interview during the tour, that might mean he hadn't gotten around to recording yet that year, and it might also mean that he never bothered to do so in 1980 if Plant was already so against a live album when they talked about it in 1978. Personally, I think the DVD is already a definitive statement on Knebworth, and whatever extra we'd get besides that would just dilute the grandeur. Same thing with Earl's Court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Personally, I think the DVD is already a definitive statement on Knebworth, and whatever extra we'd get besides that would just dilute the grandeur. Same thing with Earl's Court. Thing is, too many people know "complete" releasable versions of both shows exist- again, what Page deigned to put on the DVD was just a teaser (an IMO a slap in the face to some collectors). Make no mistake- complete Knebworth of Earls Court releases would do big sales...Page is actually turning down a big payday by not putting them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooma Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Why would the record company agree to even release Coda unless there was something substantial on the bonus disk? I can't imagine Coda without something good to offer could sell well enough to justify the cost of remastering, advertising etc. Could be, they would have to swallow the cost of it just to have Jimmy agree to do the rest. I wonder how profitable this project has actually been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooma Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Wrong thread, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NealKenneth Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Make no mistake- complete Knebworth of Earls Court releases would do big sales...Page is actually turning down a big payday by not putting them out. I agree, there is no doubt they would sell well, particularly Earls Court. Why would the record company agree to even release Coda unless there was something substantial on the bonus disk? I can't imagine Coda without something good to offer could sell well enough to justify the cost of remastering, advertising etc. Could be, they would have to swallow the cost of it just to have Jimmy agree to do the rest. I wonder how profitable this project has actually been? I think the five they've released so far all managed to break the top ten on Billboard, so I'm guessing they've already made a lot of money on the project as a whole. For Coda, though, maybe there won't be a bonus disc...it's just bonus tracks to start with so I can't imagine many fans being upset with the new stuff being on the same disc as the original stuff. I would skip the vinyl edition too if I were them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I agree, there is no doubt they would sell well, particularly Earls Court. That's the thing...I'd buy them. So would you. Not only would they be selling to the kids who like Zeppelin and don't already own the bootleg versions, they'd be selling to all the collectors looking for the ultimate upgrade to their umpteen million bootleg versions! I think the five they've released so far all managed to break the top ten on Billboard, so I'm guessing they've already made a lot of money on the project as a whole. For Coda, though, maybe there won't be a bonus disc...it's just bonus tracks to start with so I can't imagine many fans being upset with the new stuff being on the same disc as the original stuff. I would skip the vinyl edition too if I were them. I could see them tacking an 'outtake' or two onto the Deluxe Coda- the "Ozone Baby" drum track, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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