The Old Hermit Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Having got into the mighty Zep this past summer, I've been catching up with all things LZ-related since then, and lately, I've been digging into the chronological live album that Jimmy Page talked about in several interviews in the 1970's, and why it ultimately never came about. From what I gather, the live album was what Jimmy wanted to release as Zep's final album for Atlantic following Bonzo's demise (he even had quite a few tracks already selected and mixed, having worked on the album on-and-off during the 1970's), but Robert Plant vetoed it outright for some undetermined reason, Page even brought it up again at band meetings throughout the 1980's and 1990's, but was always stopped in his tracks by Plant, to the point that Page is even quoted in an interview stating that because of Plant's intransigence with regards the album, he (Page) no longer brought up the subject at subsequent band meetings. You could almost hear Page's bitter disappointment in the interview, and it's clear that give the choice, Coda would have been a triple or even quadruple-vinyl live album that covered the band's live history between 1969-80, and (in my humble opinion) would have been an infinitely better swan song - no pun intended! - for the band than an odds-and-sods outtake album (a compromise that Plant reluctantly agreed to), not to mention a more fitting tribute to the late John Bonham. I'm at a loss to understand why Robert Plant vetoed the live album proposal, surely it wasn't just because he thought it might eclipse his burgeoning solo career, so I'm asking my fellow Zepinistas what they think of the subject at hand, why did Plant veto the live album? Over to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Hermit Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 P.S. Sorry for the typo in the topic title, meant to write live album not ive... apologies all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic_juice Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I speculate Robert deemed some of those performances subpar on his part and did not want them officially released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathington Willoughby Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 ^On that note, does anyone know what shows were said to have been represented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTM Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 ^On that note, does anyone know what shows were said to have been represented? Probably what is on the two disc live "DVD", you know, the visual chronological live album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcondo123 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Probably what is on the two disc live "DVD", you know, the visual chronological live album. Yeah that's what I would guess, too. Probably some RAH stuff b/c Jimmy had a few songs from that show mixed during the Coda sessions but never got released (Bring It On Home). I would also bet that maybe one of the Fillmore 69 shows would make an appearance, along with bits from Cali 72, MSG 73, EC 75, God knows what 77, Knebworth 79, maybe 80? I don't think there is a definitive answer out there my friend, but it's pretty safe to assume that it would mostly contain HTWWW and LZ DVD material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Zepanistas?!? There are men here too......Zepanistos, if you must. Regarding the question, my opinion is that Plant had grown to dislike his former self, and his over the top vocal performances that can be very grating, from time to time. He has alluded to this many times over the years, and seems to like to distance himself from the undisciplined live vocalist that he once was in the early '70's. Just my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KcChief Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Better chance of finding out the meaning of zoso before you crack plants thick skull and wonder why he does what he does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckman Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 ^On that note, does anyone know what shows were said to have been represented? In one interview (quote can be found in Dave Lewis' book Celebration)Jimmy mentioned No Quarter from Earls Court, How many more times from Southampton 1973 and not specified material from Royal Albert Hall and Knebworth...so DVD is indeed the closest bet. But the multi track version of No Quarter from EC is not released, yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Hermit Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Zepanistas?!? There are men here too......Zepanistos, if you must. Regarding the question, my opinion is that Plant had grown to dislike his former self, and his over the top vocal performances that can be very grating, from time to time. He has alluded to this many times over the years, and seems to like to distance himself from the undisciplined live vocalist that he once was in the early '70's. Just my guess. Sorry about the lack of gender-neutrality, m'lord, I thought it sounded neutral enough, my grovelling begins now... As for Robert Plant supposedly not being happy with his 1970's vocal performances, it's common knowledge that he and the rest of LZ weren't happy with The Song Remains the Same - both film and soundtrack album - but he evidently signed off on that for release, so why not the chronological live album, surely it would have remedied the TSRTS situation by having a definitive live document of the Zep in their prime? I love that Plant is so fiercely steadfast in hs beliefs and opinions - moreso with his admirable (and correct) refusal to do a LZ reunion tour - but you can see why Jimmy Page is so flummoxed and frustrated with him at times, he clearly has a stubborn streak that simply brooks no dissent and allows little or no compromise when he digs his heels in on a particular subject matter... the chronological live album would have been a BEAST of a record that would see the Zep go out on the highest of high notes, it's just genuinely sad we never got it solely because Percy decided so... P.S. As for what recordings Jimmy Page would have used in the hypothetical album, he mentioned in an interview he had release-quality tapes dating back to the Royal Albert Hall 1970, and then two for every year thereafter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathington Willoughby Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 In one interview (quote can be found in Dave Lewis' book Celebration)Jimmy mentioned No Quarter from Earls Court, How many more times from Southampton 1973 and not specified material from Royal Albert Hall and Knebworth...so DVD is indeed the closest bet. But the multi track version of No Quarter from EC is not released, yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecongo Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Jimmy was able to do major voice cracking repairs thanks to modern technology. Pro Tools to be precise. Covering Roberts vocal problems was a big job, and I can understand Roberts reluctance back in the day when his shortcomings couldn't have been covered up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Sorry about the lack of gender-neutrality, m'lord, I thought it sounded neutral enough, my grovelling begins now... As for Robert Plant supposedly not being happy with his 1970's vocal performances, it's common knowledge that he and the rest of LZ weren't happy with The Song Remains the Same - both film and soundtrack album - but he evidently signed off on that for release, so why not the chronological live album, surely it would have remedied the TSRTS situation by having a definitive live document of the Zep in their prime? I love that Plant is so fiercely steadfast in hs beliefs and opinions - moreso with his admirable (and correct) refusal to do a LZ reunion tour - but you can see why Jimmy Page is so flummoxed and frustrated with him at times, he clearly has a stubborn streak that simply brooks no dissent and allows little or no compromise when he digs his heels in on a particular subject matter... the chronological live album would have been a BEAST of a record that would see the Zep go out on the highest of high notes, it's just genuinely sad we never got it solely because Percy decided so... P.S. As for what recordings Jimmy Page would have used in the hypothetical album, he mentioned in an interview he had release-quality tapes dating back to the Royal Albert Hall 1970, and then two for every year thereafter... I was very tongue in cheek about the gender comment. I think comparing TSRTS to the hypothetical live album that was proposed as a substitute for Coda is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. TSRTS was a product of necessity, and although not perfect, I don't think Plant had yet become entrenched in a movement to shed his past. The Led Zeppelin tragedy had yet to really unfold, apart from the car crash. When Coda was released, after Bonham died, Plant was insufferable in his efforts to disassociate himself from his past; and although Coda was also a product of necessity, there was a choice available as to whether the release would be a live album, or a studio album. As I said, Plant alluded many times to that "wild kid" whose vocals (especially live) were undisciplined and histrionic. I could be off the mark entirely, but if I am not, I can fully understand why Plant looked back on his early years as a vocalist with some degree of introspection. Plant was moving forward with a new philosophy about his vocals, and I think that he felt an album of studio tracks in 1982 was the better of the two options, based on how he felt about his past performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksgemini Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I am sure there may be some less than stellar moments from Jimmy too on the later shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matjaz1 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I don't know, but I think reasons might be personal and performance related! Personal might be related to the tragedies and excesses, that Zeppelin encountered and which are to a degree directly related to success and money(Page said they certainly never started for fame and money, but that's a different topic), as well as actually to the part of Zeppelin style, that is very wild and heavy and partly related to their a bit wild personalities(the lesson is to play music a bit more mellow and watch out not to fall in the traps of drugs and other excesses) and that style was especially present in the very early days! So Robert probably did not want to revisit this personally, while the whole thing would be processed and then also when released! Perhaps he also did not like the visual behaviour of the band onstage that much! Another thing are his performances getting 'worse' with time, but actually ofcourse just different, but as he might have not liked his early perfomances that much, as he might have perceived them as a bit over the top, so perhaps eventually he started lookin at latter performances as just a different approach and not much worse! Afterall in his solo carrer, he sung in so many styles! Also I think what helped the new releases, were atleast some of the awards and further general acceptance Zeppelin experienced! Robert started looking differently on everything and he probably started seeing his vocal as just something very, very good in the early days and not something that was too loud and something that became a bit inadequate latter! So I think with time that healed the wounds and continuing and growing acceptance, Robert changed his mind, although I'm not shure he even particulary vetoed live releases! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For My Life Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 In one interview (quote can be found in Dave Lewis' book Celebration)Jimmy mentioned No Quarter from Earls Court, How many more times from Southampton 1973 and not specified material from Royal Albert Hall and Knebworth...so DVD is indeed the closest bet. But the multi track version of No Quarter from EC is not released, yet Times change, technology changes... Jimmy remastered the catalogue for re-release following the advent of CD. He has remastered it again for the new digital age, and although everything is being released yet again on vinyl and CD, we are now receiving digital download cards too. I have said this before - the remaining multi-tracked full live concerts (Southampton 73, Earls Court 75, Knebworth 79 etc), should now be made available as digital downloads only. There are enough fans out there who would pay the necessary premium to make this financially viable, as all the costs associated with releasing them as physical media would be avoided. I have no doubt this will happen - maybe in about three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksgemini Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 What do people play digital downloads on? I have yet to understand this beyond wife using iTunes on her phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For My Life Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 What do people play digital downloads on? I have yet to understand this beyond wife using iTunes on her phone Most people download them onto a computer or mobile device and then plug them into or stream them through a hi-fi system. For example your wife could download lossless digital music files to iTunes on her iPhone and then stream them to a hi-fi system using Apple AirPlay. There are many other ways of doing it. Or you can plug headphones into the iPhone obviously. There could be a whole separate discussion topic on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpMan Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 If Robert did veto the release of a chronological live album (I never heard of him doing this, nor do I remember any mention from Page regarding the chronological live album post 1977 interviews) the only logical reason would be the obvious one for the time period. He was done with Zeppelin in the 80's and trying to forge a successful solo career, I am sure the last thing Robert would have wanted is a new release of live Zeppelin material to fuel the flames of a reunion, and even worst, for audience members to be screaming for Zeppelin numbers at a Robert Plant concert. I also believe this is why Robert refused to perform any Zeppelin numbers until 88', he wanted to stand on his own, to look back and say he did it on his own terms, he was good enough, and he did not need Jimmy or Zeppelin to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasbo Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I was wondering what the quiet one(JPJ)had any say in this.Would it still have gone ahead if Plant agreed but Jonesy didn't like his bass or keyboard?As I remember during eighties Plant distanced himself from anything Zep,he was moving on whereas Page didn't seem to do much.I read in music papers of the day that Page was still 'getting it together'as far as the live album went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Times change, technology changes... Jimmy remastered the catalogue for re-release following the advent of CD. He has remastered it again for the new digital age, and although everything is being released yet again on vinyl and CD, we are now receiving digital download cards too. I have said this before - the remaining multi-tracked full live concerts (Southampton 73, Earls Court 75, Knebworth 79 etc), should now be made available as digital downloads only. There are enough fans out there who would pay the necessary premium to make this financially viable, as all the costs associated with releasing them as physical media would be avoided. I have no doubt this will happen - maybe in about three years. Hardly fair on people who don't download music & I don't think Jimmy Page would ever do that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For My Life Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hardly fair on people who don't download music & I don't think Jimmy Page would ever do that anyway. Yeah, but if it was a choice between download-only and nothing, then I'd rather have the downloads. It boils down to a case of economic viability. Many bands are now making live downloads available that would be impossible to release on CD and/or vinyl due to the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Yeah, but if it was a choice between download-only and nothing, then I'd rather have the downloads. It boils down to a case of economic viability. Many bands are now making live downloads available that would be impossible to release on CD and/or vinyl due to the cost. I can see your point but Led Zeppelin music will always sell in such quantities that a CD (at least) release will make business sense. I'd be pretty upset if Page started bringing out live albums on download only, I wouldn't know how to download it for a start & although I'm sure I would learn quickly enough I would miss the artwork etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I can see your point but Led Zeppelin music will always sell in such quantities that a CD (at least) release will make business sense. I'd be pretty upset if Page started bringing out live albums on download only, I wouldn't know how to download it for a start & although I'm sure I would learn quickly enough I would miss the artwork etc. As long as Jimmy is the steward of Led Zeppelin, there will never be a download only release. He, like me, is a huge record collector, and he will not abandon the physical media as long as he is alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick2632 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I can see your point but Led Zeppelin music will always sell in such quantities that a CD (at least) release will make business sense. I'd be pretty upset if Page started bringing out live albums on download only, I wouldn't know how to download it for a start & although I'm sure I would learn quickly enough I would miss the artwork etc. Ehh I don't know! I keep a lot of my music on my phone and my Zeppelin collection looks fantastic on there! Each album has around a 2"/2" thumbnail of the art work and when I click on a song it shows the artwork full screen (my phones pretty big lol). It will look much better when I have the companion disc to PG-Coda! But all the official studio/live albums + 15 boots looks great on there, I keep all the official stuff together then I have the boots organized by date. But yeah I like having the hard copy with the option of putting it on my phone, I don't know how many times I've looked at my deluxe CDs since June and October and the little books with pictures that came with them but I'm surprised the wheel on III isn't worn out yet! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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