Boleskine

[Moddey Dhoo]

49 minutes ago, JTM said:

It's only bricks and mortar, the remains of what was just an ugly looking bungalow anyway. If  there was no Crowley or Page connection nobody would give a fuck. The name Boleskine House conjures up the idea of some kind of impressive mansion, which it most certainly was not.

OK, fair enough.

Maybe I am the only one upset that it burnt down. I guess I am weird.

[JTM]

44 minutes ago, Moddey Dhoo said:

OK, fair enough.

Maybe I am the only one upset that it burnt down. I guess I am weird.

Nah, Your'e not weird, you have a valid point of view, who is right, who is wrong, we all have our opinions..... Me I'm just in one of those bad mood bolshie days.

[Patrycja]

7 hours ago, FavouriteTipple said:

Some good points there. However, I don't think apportioning blame is appropriate or constructive. In the great scheme of things when the architectual and cultural histories are being updated to cover the (possibly) final four decades of the House's existence, it seems reasonable to ask why a succession of apparently wealthy owners failed to future-proof Boleskine by re-wiring the entire site. But to point sharp internet fingers at former or current owners seems a tad unfair (and smacks of wealthy envy, wrote this fiscally challenged writer!).

If you see the Youtube video showing the interior of the house, you can see what look like the dreaded electric storage heaters in some rooms. As anyone in these islands will tell you, these heaters are expensive and useless. So that would indicate that an electrical rewiring might have to include a entire heating replacement, which would definitely be a big job in such an old house. Which brings us back to the succession of wealthy owners who might have been in a position to afford to do this. If only we had Captain Hindsight to help us... Coulda! Woulda! Shoulda!

All in all, it is a definite loss to a landscape that already is witness to the shells of burned out or abandoned manor homes, gentry mansions, and crofters' cottages.

Can anyone who saw the video and knows about construction and house damage give their opinion on the feasibility of restoration? Looks like a total loss to these layman's eyes.

 

You write clearly and well, FavoriteTipple. Thanks for the continued updates. I don't get the blame on Jimmy either. For all we know, the wiring could have been to code or brought up to it for that time, and nothing with it happened when his friend lived there. (Seems to be several threads in which Jimmy is strangely poked at for things people want to make him responsible. Maybe it's some weird thing of idealizing the famous to then trash them when they don't live up to lofty expectations people don't even have of themselves. Hero worship to justify denigration...)

Anyway, if the place was used as a 'guest house', I wonder whether that itself would not have required an upgrade to the electrical/heating? I'm just curious about the laws here. It's a moot point after the fact of the fire, but thank goodness nobody was staying there at the time.

As for restoration, well it's up to political will and deep pockets in addition to the condition of the remaining structure, but depending on the strength of all three, what's left could be incorporated in rebuilds of various designs and purposes.

It'll be interesting to see what transpires from all of this, what, if anything, is willed to rise from the ashes.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Patrycja

[FavouriteTipple]

8 hours ago, Moddey Dhoo said:

I have some experience in house restoration as a investor, and from what I see in your video I would say the house will be raised (tore down). Very sad!

Agreed. It's probably game over for Boleskine. It's always a shame when any location with historical or cultural significance is lost so violently. Ah jeez no! Or, as we'd say back in Dublin, ah shite.

But of course if they do indeed raze the remains, I cannot but idly wonder if the myths and whispers are true and there are indeed passageways under the house, leading down to the cemetery below...

[paging Mr Price for evil laugh, paging Mr Vincent Price...]

[Disco Duck]

Just now, JTM said:

It's only bricks and mortar, the remains of what was just an ugly looking bungalow anyway. If  there was no Crowley or Page connection nobody would give a fuck. The name Boleskine House conjures up the idea of some kind of impressive mansion, which it most certainly was not.

Judging by old photos, I don't think Boleskine House was ugly.  I liked its symmetrical facade, pale stucco exterior and relatively small size.   It's proximity to Loch Ness was a a plus, but it's spooky history would have given me pause if I were in the market for a Scottish country house.  

[KellyGirl]

16 hours ago, Moddey Dhoo said:

OK, fair enough.

Maybe I am the only one upset that it burnt down. I guess I am weird.

Nope not weird at all. I think there are a number of people who would find the Boleskine
house an interesting place to see. Jimmy Page took an interest so it's bound to pique some
curiosity from L Z fans. I like reading about its haunted reputation. I find the place cold and
unwelcoming in it's pictures though...Maybe it's supposed to feel that way? I would do a walk
through just to see what gives, but to live there or stay over night as a guest?? Omg hell no haha.
It gives me the heebie jeebies. I'd tour through in the day with all the lights on with a group of
people. When I say people I mean an NFL defensive tackle players  Yeah I know I'm a wimp.

I've been to the UK 12 times. Mainly England as I have immediate family living in Bedford and 
Borehamwood. I should ask if any of them have ever visited the Boleskine house. Some of them
are Jimmy and L Z fans like me

Edited February 11, 2016 by KellyGirl

[Moddey Dhoo]

4 hours ago, KellyGirl said:

Nope not weird at all. I think there are a number of people who would find the Boleskine
house an interesting place to see. Jimmy Page took an interest so it's bound to pique some
curiosity from L Z fans. I like reading about its haunted reputation. I find the place cold and
unwelcoming in it's pictures though...Maybe it's supposed to feel that way? I would do a walk
through just to see what gives, but to live there or stay over night as a guest?? Omg hell no haha.
It gives me the heebie jeebies. I'd tour through in the day with all the lights on with a group of
people. When I say people I mean an NFL defensive tackle players  Yeah I know I'm a wimp.

I've been to the UK 12 times. Mainly England as I have immediate family living in Bedford and 
Borehamwood. I should ask if any of them have ever visited the Boleskine house. Some of them
are Jimmy and L Z fans like me

Thanks KellyGirl, I was beginning to question myself lol. I still might be weird? Lol.

I went to England / Scotland in 96. Rented a car and just drove. I would stay at local bed and breakfasts. I stayed a week at Loch Lomand and hiked the area. I was going to drive to Loch Ness but ran out of time. Boleskine was my goal. Since then that's all I wanted to do, return and make it there. I love the countryside so just the beauty of the area is what I was looking forward to. I wanted to hike up and behind Boleskine. 

I feel the same as you, if Page thought it was an interesting place, why not?

Oh well, maybe Wales, to see Bron-y-aur.

[FavouriteTipple]

Come to Inverness and I'll take you to the Market Bar for some fun and music, and you're guaranteed to meet several older blokes who'll all swear they did joinery work at Boleskine for Jimmy Page. "Sure wouldn't you find him here in the pub, sitting over there, right enough!"

There's a radio documentary in that. Jimmy's Joiners and the tale of Boleskine Hoose. Hmm.

[Moddey Dhoo]

42 minutes ago, FavouriteTipple said:

Come to Inverness and I'll take you to the Market Bar for some fun and music, and you're guaranteed to meet several older blokes who'll all swear they did joinery work at Boleskine for Jimmy Page. "Sure wouldn't you find him here in the pub, sitting over there, right enough!"

There's a radio documentary in that. Jimmy's Joiners and the tale of Boleskine Hoose. Hmm.

I will be sure to look you up! Thanks!

[IpMan]

On February 10, 2016 at 6:24 AM, FavouriteTipple said:

Some good points there. However, I don't think apportioning blame is appropriate or constructive. In the great scheme of things when the architectual and cultural histories are being updated to cover the (possibly) final four decades of the House's existence, it seems reasonable to ask why a succession of apparently wealthy owners failed to future-proof Boleskine by re-wiring the entire site. But to point sharp internet fingers at former or current owners seems a tad unfair (and smacks of wealthy envy, wrote this fiscally challenged writer!).

If you see the Youtube video showing the interior of the house, you can see what look like the dreaded electric storage heaters in some rooms. As anyone in these islands will tell you, these heaters are expensive and useless. So that would indicate that an electrical rewiring might have to include a entire heating replacement, which would definitely be a big job in such an old house. Which brings us back to the succession of wealthy owners who might have been in a position to afford to do this. If only we had Captain Hindsight to help us... Coulda! Woulda! Shoulda!

All in all, it is a definite loss to a landscape that already is witness to the shells of burned out or abandoned manor homes, gentry mansions, and crofters' cottages.

Can anyone who saw the video and knows about construction and house damage give their opinion on the feasibility of restoration? Looks like a total loss to these layman's eyes.

 

I must disagree, blame indeed MUST be placed and has nothing to do with the envy of the wealthy. Case in point, if this home were insured and the wiring was not up to code, I can guarantee the claim would be denied. Also, if someone were injured or died in this blaze and a contractor came forward from say, 1996 who informed the then current owner of the situation, criminal liability could also be an issue.

What happened at Boleskine is nothing short of gross negligence on the part of the current owner since blame can only be attributed to them. Jimmy was damn lucky this did not happen while he was the owner and his caretaker and the caretakers family present. Talk about a shit storm. Then again if Jimmy did bring the wiring up to code sometime in the 70's, that is an even bigger problem which I mentioned in an earlier post. Copper was scarce in the 70's so standard wiring at the time would have been aluminum which people realized after the fact as a HUGE fire hazard. Of course Jimmy would in no way be responsible if this were the case since he would have been following code and general practice of the time.

In the end though I doubt this house was insured simply due to the shape it was in and the fact it was not up to code. I do not think any insurance company would have insured Boleskine due to these factors, and if they did, the cost would have been far to prohibitive vs. the value of the home & lands.

So, simply put, whoever owned this house made a gamble and lost. Thank god no one was injured or killed, just a historic building gone and the owners investment or prize up in smoke.

Edited February 11, 2016 by IpMan

[Moddey Dhoo]

39 minutes ago, IpMan said:

I must disagree, blame indeed MUST be placed and has nothing to do with the envy of the wealthy. Case in point, if this home were insured and the wiring was not up to code, I can guarantee the claim would be denied. Also, if someone were injured or died in this blaze and a contractor came forward from say, 1996 who informed the then current owner of the situation, criminal liability could also be an issue.

What happened at Boleskine is nothing short of gross negligence on the part of the current owner since blame can only be attributed to them. Jimmy was damn lucky this did not happen while he was the owner and his caretaker and the caretakers family present. Talk about a shit storm. Then again if Jimmy did bring the wiring up to code sometime in the 70's, that is an even bigger problem which I mentioned in an earlier post. Copper was scarce in the 70's so standard wiring at the time would have been aluminum which people realized after the fact as a HUGE fire hazard. Of course Jimmy would in no way be responsible if this were the case since he would have been following code and general practice of the time.

In the end though I doubt this house was insured simply due to the shape it was in and the fact it was not up to code. I do not think any insurance company would have insured Boleskine due to these factors, and if they did, the cost would have been far to prohibitive vs. the value of the home & lands.

So, simply put, whoever owned this house made a gamble and lost. Thank god no one was injured or killed, just a historic building gone and the owners investment or prize up in smoke.

That's only if it was truely due to an electrical fire. Maybe I missed it but isn't that still an assumption? 

I would be willing to bet it was the owner's use of space heaters after seeing FavouriteTipple's video.

Anyway, it's truly a shame that any historic structure has been lost after so many years of existence.

[FavouriteTipple]

Just now, Moddey Dhoo said:

That's only if it was truely due to an electrical fire. Maybe I missed it but isn't that still an assumption?

Indeed - I have no yet heard any official confirmation as to the cause. This is why I'd refrain from too much speculation and judgement about details which we may yet or even never know. I'm only a layman when it comes to building and the trades, but debating things we cannot resolve seems to be the main purpose of the internet.

All I've garnered from reports is that the fire supposedly started in the kitchen while the adult children of the owners were visiting for Christmas. They left in the morning to go shopping in Inverness and when they came back early afternoon the fire was already under way. This could happen in almost *any* home, old and new.

Here's a photo from my anonymous photo donor, where you can see the interior of Boleskine and the complete devastation. Right to the original walls. Argh.

[Moddey Dhoo]

48 minutes ago, FavouriteTipple said:

Indeed - I have no yet heard any official confirmation as to the cause. This is why I'd refrain from too much speculation and judgement about details which we may yet or even never know. I'm only a layman when it comes to building and the trades, but debating things we cannot resolve seems to be the main purpose of the internet.

All I've garnered from reports is that the fire supposedly started in the kitchen while the adult children of the owners were visiting for Christmas. They left in the morning to go shopping in Inverness and when they came back early afternoon the fire was already under way. This could happen in almost *any* home, old and new.

Here's a photo from my anonymous photo donor, where you can see the interior of Boleskine and the complete devastation. Right to the original walls. Argh.

wow... Hey, great picture, Thanks for sharing!

[IpMan]

3 hours ago, Moddey Dhoo said:

That's only if it was truely due to an electrical fire. Maybe I missed it but isn't that still an assumption? 

I would be willing to bet it was the owner's use of space heaters after seeing FavouriteTipple's video.

Anyway, it's truly a shame that any historic structure has been lost after so many years of existence.

Oh, for some reason I thought a prior post explained it was an electrical fire. My mistake. Sorry about that. Now, let's get to who really is to blame...the CHILDREN!

I have a great movie idea: Home Alone 5: Shenanigans at Boleskine

[Peggy_Sue23]

Somewhat reminds me of this painting:  The Artist's Garden at Argenteuil, by Claude Monet

[Peggy_Sue23]

A man's house burns down. The smoking wreckage represents only a ruined home that was dear through years of use and pleasant associations. By and by, as the days and weeks go on, first he misses this, then that, then the other thing. And, when he casts about for it, he finds that it was in that house. Always it is an essential--there was but one of its kind. It cannot be replaced. It was in that house. It is irrevocably lost. He did not realize that it was an essential when he had it; he only discovers it now when he finds himself balked, hampered, by its absence. It will be years before the tale of lost essentials is complete, and not till then can he truly know the magnitude of his disaster.

-Mark Twain

 

[Moddey Dhoo]

17 hours ago, IpMan said:

Oh, for some reason I thought a prior post explained it was an electrical fire. My mistake. Sorry about that. Now, let's get to who really is to blame...the CHILDREN!

I have a great movie idea: Home Alone 5: Shenanigans at BoleskinBoleskine... The reply function in the forum is acting up again! Sorry

Edited February 12, 2016 by Moddey Dhoo
Can't reply in forum. Acting up

[JTM]

1 hour ago, Moddey Dhoo said:

 

"Can't reply"..You just did......Anyway the so called Children could be teens who could have made themselves something to eat then left a grill on, a chip pan, maybe left a tea towel on a hob ring they have left turned on at a low setting and the tea towel after time caught fire, careless maybe but accidents happen.

[Moddey Dhoo]

19 hours ago, IpMan said:

Oh, for some reason I thought a prior post explained it was an electrical fire. My mistake. Sorry about that. Now, let's get to who really is to blame...the CHILDREN!

I have a great movie idea: Home Alone 5: Shenanigans at BoleskinBoleskine the only way to reply is in the editing box??

Edited February 12, 2016 by Moddey Dhoo
This reply is generated from the 'reason for edit' box, forum won't let me reply, sorry

[Moddey Dhoo]

17 minutes ago, JTM said:

"Can't reply"..You just did......Anyway the so called Children could be teens who could have made themselves something to eat then left a grill on, a chip pan, maybe left a tea towel on a hob ring they have left turned on at a low setting and the tea towel after time caught fire, careless maybe but accidents happen

Edited February 12, 2016 by Moddey Dhoo
Tried different browsers, gonna give up for today, sorry

[KellyGirl]

It's careless to whoevers fault it was. Whether it was irresponsible kids mucking about in a kitchen leaving
hot plates and burners on, heaters too close to the curtains, or a home that more than likely was a huge fire
hazard that needed to be brought up to code.

When Jimmy owned it, were there any fires? His friend Malcolm Dent from what I have read lived there
without any issues. Well he mentioned in an interview some kooky people around, but   ha-ha that's par
for the course with Crowley's house and the fact people knew it was connected to Jimmy Page at that point
in time.  Once Jimmy sold it, it seemed to get neglected. Who was the current owner?  Were they Crowley
fanatics, Pagey L Z people or just someone in general who had a thing for history and older homes in the UK?
No article really implies what.  A shame, because it sounds like some of you would have enjoyed having a looksee.




 

Edited February 12, 2016 by KellyGirl
Hiya! How's everybody doing ;)

[FavouriteTipple]

4 hours ago, JTM said:

Anyway the so called Children could be teens

No, they're not teens, hence my use of "adult children" meaning grown up.

[FavouriteTipple]

On 10/02/2016 at 8:37 PM, Patrycja said:

Thanks for the continued updates. I don't get the blame on Jimmy either. For all we know, the wiring could have been to code or brought up to it for that time, and nothing with it happened when his friend lived there. (Seems to be several threads in which Jimmy is strangely poked at for things people want to make him responsible. Maybe it's some weird thing of idealizing the famous to then trash them when they don't live up to lofty expectations people don't even have of themselves. Hero worship to justify denigration...)

Anyway, if the place was used as a 'guest house', I wonder whether that itself would not have required an upgrade to the electrical/heating? I'm just curious about the laws here. It's a moot point after the fact of the fire, but thank goodness nobody was staying there at the time.

As for restoration, well it's up to political will and deep pockets in addition to the condition of the remaining structure, but depending on the strength of all three, what's left could be incorporated in rebuilds of various designs and purposes.

It'll be interesting to see what transpires from all of this, what, if anything, is willed to rise from the ashes.

You're very welcome, Patrycja.  There won't be anymore updates, I imagine, until there's some official report on the fire. No idea if or when that's happening. And yes, the projections of perceptions from people onto people like Page is fascinating, in its way. Don't follow leaders, watch your parking meters.

As previous media reports have stated, Boleskine was used as a guest house after the MacGillivray family who were local hoteliers, bought it in the 1990s (poss from Page, I dunno). You can find some online reports from people, often Thelemic-type folk, who managed to stay there when it was open to the public. One report recalls £300 for a very lovely weekend, en suite and great views and food. There's more in the linked news reports further back in this thread.

And as evidenced earlier, the house is fairly wrecked, with enough heat blast to decimate the interiors right down to the original stone, which in turn probably has heat cracks and water damage... anyone can be sure that none of that is cheap to repair, even for a wealthy person. If I were a betting man, I'd reckon costing at least a million pounds to restore - literally would have to be rebuilt. Page's Crowley fascination is certainly diminished, if not simply gone completely (and understandably) private, so his interest in Boleskine is long, long gone.

** One niggly thing that a few folk have referred to: the figure of £176,000 that was supposedly to buy Boleskine House is erroneous. We'd be talking twice or three times that at least, depending on the holding. The £176K refers to an approx one acre plot which was for sale on the former Estate by the House some time ago.

[Patrycja]

On 2/12/2016 at 4:23 PM, FavouriteTipple said:

You're very welcome, Patrycja.  There won't be anymore updates, I imagine, until there's some official report on the fire. No idea if or when that's happening. And yes, the projections of perceptions from people onto people like Page is fascinating, in its way. Don't follow leaders, watch your parking meters.

As previous media reports have stated, Boleskine was used as a guest house after the MacGillivray family who were local hoteliers, bought it in the 1990s (poss from Page, I dunno). You can find some online reports from people, often Thelemic-type folk, who managed to stay there when it was open to the public. One report recalls £300 for a very lovely weekend, en suite and great views and food. There's more in the linked news reports further back in this thread.

And as evidenced earlier, the house is fairly wrecked, with enough heat blast to decimate the interiors right down to the original stone, which in turn probably has heat cracks and water damage... anyone can be sure that none of that is cheap to repair, even for a wealthy person. If I were a betting man, I'd reckon costing at least a million pounds to restore - literally would have to be rebuilt. Page's Crowley fascination is certainly diminished, if not simply gone completely (and understandably) private, so his interest in Boleskine is long, long gone.

** One niggly thing that a few folk have referred to: the figure of £176,000 that was supposedly to buy Boleskine House is erroneous. We'd be talking twice or three times that at least, depending on the holding. The £176K refers to an approx one acre plot which was for sale on the former Estate by the House some time ago.

Thanks for your insights once again, as well as for the video and photo, FavouriteTipple. Once I saw that photo the reality of the extent of the damage set it. Doubt any of it is salvageable. Besides, left in this state would probably attract certain types and create its own branch of lurid tales in time. Too bad that common sense was left in the house along with the stove on; not to rub salt in, but what were they thinking leaving the house like that?! Amazing.

I imagine that liability/cost/insurance/planning assessments and options will take a while to determine. I wonder whether the local government would have any involvement in possible restoration (though highly unlikely just from the look of the damage) or perhaps Boleskine just doesn't register as any more important than any number of older structures. The Crowley ties are just as likely to keep some folks away as they attract others. 

Such a shame for Boleskine to be in this state, but I am curious about what, if anything, happens with it.

[The Only Way To Fly]

17 minutes ago, Patrycja said:

Such a shame for Boleskine to be in this state, but I am curious about what, if anything, happens with it.

Me too! I'm mostly curious about what might be found in the rubble/ashes. Given the history of the house this would be great for a university archeologist's first dig!