Cactus Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I know you can say "oh, but Zeppelin are gazillionaires! They don't need the money!" Blah blah blah. To me it's like saying any punk can sleep with your daughter just because she's been around. "What's one more in the big picture?". Believe me, I'll still kick your ass. I like that analogy! haha. I agree with that statement thought - if you say "but they are rich anyway" that implies that at a certain point of wealth, you are no longer entitled to collect 100% of what is rightfully yours. Who would decide at what point it becomes acceptable to steal from a person? After $1mil? $10mil? A point I have made before is that the industry of record production, manufacture and distribution/sale supports a massive number of jobs worldwide. Every time you steal music, you hurt not only the artist whose music you are enjoying for free, but also all the people who work at the retailers and record companies. These are average people like you and me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pb Derigable Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Here's a point. A twelve year old kid starts listening to music. Generally he likes what he hears which is the music of today. so he buy his Fall out Boy Cd because he knows they are popular. he is not going to buy a tom petty CD because they aren't getting the airplay that Fall Out Boy is. but he likes that one tom petty song and he downloads a tom petty record illegally. and now he starts liking tom petty enough to go see him play a few years later. If that kid never stole those songs, tom petty would never got a single dime form that kid. Thats why 50% of tom petty audience is 30 and younger. 50% of his audience weren't even born when he was popular. Tom Petty may be a bad example, but it will work with any artist form the 60'2 ans 70's. I would never ever bought the Kiln House from fleetwood mac if i hadn't downloaded it from a limewire, and tried it out. I have bought a few Fleetwood mac albums now and Kiln house has the number one Cd slot in my truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Here's a point. A twelve year old kid starts listening to music. Generally he likes what he hears which is the music of today. so he buy his Fall out Boy Cd because he knows they are popular. he is not going to buy a tom petty CD because they aren't getting the airplay that Fall Out Boy is. but he likes that one tom petty song and he downloads a tom petty record illegally. and now he starts liking tom petty enough to go see him play a few years later. If that kid never stole those songs, tom petty would never got a single dime form that kid. Thats why 50% of tom petty audience is 30 and younger. 50% of his audience weren't even born when he was popular. Tom Petty may be a bad example, but it will work with any artist form the 60'2 ans 70's. Tom Petty's new number 1 fan is, in my opinion, morally obliged to purchase the album legally, after enjoying the illegal download. Sure - if you want to check out a new artist or new album, go ahead and download a sample of it. If you like it, buy it. If you don't like it - delete it. I suppose what I object to is any sense of entitlement anybody may have to someone's music/work. It is true that without the illegal download, the kid would never go to the Tom Petty show, however effectively there is no net gain for Petty. If the kid steals a $20 album, Petty is -$20. If the kid then pays $20 to see a Petty show, Petty has not gained financially. The other fault with this argument is that not all people who steal Petty's music would go to a Petty show afterwards, so the net balance is against Petty on the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppity do-da Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 What do the forum make of those downloading the back catalouge 'for free' which they already own in another format i.e. Vinyl. Said individual has already paid once but the activity in downloading is still illegal but is it morally wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uffe Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 > Hey can anybody help me? I heard this song Hey Hey what can I do... You can listen to the song here. Here is most of "the boxset" online. http://www.watchtvsitcoms.com/Music/ledzepplin1-1.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 What do the forum make of those downloading the back catalouge 'for free' which they already own in another format i.e. Vinyl. Said individual has already paid once but the activity in downloading is still illegal but is it morally wrong? I have transferred my vinyls to CD. Not downloaded though - digitised the vinyl to computer and burn to CD. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, and i suppose downloading in that case is no different. However, if you download the Mothership remasters in place of your vinyl - maybe that's not right? I'm not sure, a bit of a grey area there. let me sleep on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmsofAtlas Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Sure - if you want to check out a new artist or new album, go ahead and download a sample of it. If you like it, buy it. If you don't like it - delete it. I suppose what I object to is any sense of entitlement anybody may have to someone's music/work. It is true that without the illegal download, the kid would never go to the Tom Petty show, however effectively there is no net gain for Petty. If the kid steals a $20 album, Petty is -$20. If the kid then pays $20 to see a Petty show, Petty has not gained financially. Well, for the record, Petty would only lose about $.50. I get what you are sayin, agree with you pretty well totally. Doesn't anybody still buy stuff on a whim sometimes? If I have heard good things about an album, I will just go buy it, 9/10x its good and alotta times, its great. I am pretty sure music sales have been on the rise lately, its just the cd sales and, I would imagine, complete album sales have plummeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzfan715 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I buy stuff on a whim all the time. I go used vinyl shopping and I get the album if I've heard good things. If I don't like it, it goes in my vinyl crate. My $.02 on the bootlegs; let's use a 14 year old kid who knows hardly anything about Zep. He heard a song on the radio, and his dad talks about them. So he goes to the store and picks out a CD. It's a bootleg. If no one tells him it's a bootleg as far as he knows he's got an official album. All the kid wanted was a Zep album, how is that wrong or illegal. He was trying to get a legit one. On the other hand, if you know it's a bootleg but you buy it anyway you didn't do anything wrong either because you went into the store looking for a cd and they had it there. You paid money for the album, it's not your fault that someone else broke the law and took a tape recorder into the concert. Might as well take advantage of it, afterall they did take the risk of doing that. I for one wouldn't want it to be for no reason at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 My $.02 on the bootlegs; let's use a 14 year old kid who knows hardly anything about Zep. He heard a song on the radio, and his dad talks about them. So he goes to the store and picks out a CD. It's a bootleg. If no one tells him it's a bootleg as far as he knows he's got an official album. All the kid wanted was a Zep album, how is that wrong or illegal. He was trying to get a legit one. For this reason, bootlegs should not be sold by anyone - particularly the bootleggers but also stores etc. Bootlegs should be traded for free and no other way. A bootlegger, in my opinion, has no right to profit off their illegal recording. If they made a recording to share amongst their friends as a record of a concert, to be enjoyed by fans then fantastic. But to sell it is greedy and bad karma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pb Derigable Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 I If the kid steals a $20 album, Petty is -$20. If the kid then pays $20 to see a Petty show, Petty has not gained financially. Not to start an argument, but there is no Petty album out there, more than $15, and there is no tickets out there for less than $50 Well, for the record, Petty would only lose about $.50. I get what you are saying, agree with you pretty well totally. Doesn't anybody still buy stuff on a whim sometimes? If I have heard good things about an album, I will just go buy it, 9/10x its good and alotta times, its great. I am pretty sure music sales have been on the rise lately, its just the CD sales and, I would imagine, complete album sales have plummeted. Last time i bought a CD on a whim it was Boston Greatest Hits. Listen to it once. But do we all agree that downloading bootlegs is different then downloading official releases. I think people who are going to take the time to download a zep bootleg is gonna understand that if jimmy opens the vaults again they will be first in line. Im probably a hypocrite saying that if you illegally download official release, you're an douche bag, but not if you download LTTE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyk Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 The morality of bootlegs is an interesting debate, but my attitude is that if the band won't for whatever reason to release live material and someone else is, if it's something I want I will buy it. I have been a zep fan since about 1970, how long did we have to wait for an official live release (aside from TSRTS). I remember rummaging through record stalls in Portobello Road in the 70s and picking up a few vinyl bootlegs (sadly mainly lost in the intervening years, apart from Blueberry Hill), managed to get a few Silver Discs in the 1990s but usually very expensive and for a short while able to pick up some CDRs on ebay before they clamped down. Got some good stuff (and some badly recorded rubbish as well), but I don't feel I have taken the food out of Zep's assorted children, as I have bought most of the official releases except the assorted 'best ofs' often several times, vinyl/cassette/CD/remastered CD, so don't feel any guilt at all. If they were to release lots of live stuff tomorrow I would buy the stuff I haven't already got (or if it is in better quality, just like I did the BBC recordings). I must admit that when the DVD/HTWWW came out it took me right back to my teens waiting for LZ VI etc to come out, as I bought both on the first day of release, silly I know, but I was pretty excited. I regret not buying the O2 bootlegs on ebay while I could (naively thought they might release it, silly me). How can they be losing money if somebody who has all the official releases buys bootlegs that they won't release, if they want our cash then release the music officially. Downloading officially released content illegally is wrong though, but I don't think it's the same as buying/downloading bootlegs. OK I will clamber off my soap box now. Jimmy if you are reading this, how about releasing some more of the stuff we know you have stored away, or do what Van Morrison and other people have done and take a good quality bootleg, tidy it up and release it officially, they can't sue you you own the copyright. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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