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zeptangerine

Zeppelin & The Stones trivia

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Upon doing some "research" for a fellow forum member, I came upon some interesting facts regarding Led Zeppelin's encounters with The Stones over the years beyond the Led Wallet stories and the Krissie/Charlotte swap. Please share some of your Zep/Stones close encounters knowledge, too, because clearly these two bands were tighter than expected.

Much appreciated!!

(Jimmy played solo on The Stone's song One Hit to the Body in 1985.)

"Jimmy is featured on lead guitar, but for contractural reasons was not credited on the sleeve notes." - Rolling Stones The Complete Recording Sessions.

(Jimmy and Bill Wyman were close friends, mostly in the studio. Bill mentions Jimmy numerous times in his autobiography, Stone Alone. Below are a few facts from that book):

*A memo from Andrew Loog Oldham read, "[in 1965] We will be bringing in new producers while our main hope lies with the top session guitarist who's turned producer, Jimmy Page, and my two friends, Mick and Keith."

*Bill further claims Led Zeppelin as "the biggest rock band of the seventies."

*Jimmy was rumored as a "possible successor" for filling Brian Jones' position before Brian's death.

(I always thought it was immediately after.)

And many more.....

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At London's Island studios, Jimmy Page records "Scarlet" with Keith Richards and Traffic's Rik Grech. Vocal duties are handled by Richards. Page pronounces the track "great, really good."

http://www.vh1.com/news/rock_clock/10_19/i...er=rssSimplePie

According to Jimmy, this tune was to have been collected to the LP of the Rolling Stones. But after all, it was not done.

Richard Cole writes in his book,'Stairway to Heaven' that Pagey left with Krissy,while Ronnie left with Charlotte. All's fair in love and war,I guess.

Later,however,Ronnie told me how pissed off he was over the swap.

''I wasn't real happy with the way things turned out. My end of the deal didn't last too long.''

I assumed Ronnie didn't get what he wanted out of the bargain.

The couple swap would not have been achieved. B)

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Upon doing some "research" for a fellow forum member, I came upon some interesting facts regarding Led Zeppelin's encounters with The Stones over the years beyond the Led Wallet stories and the Krissie/Charlotte swap. Please share some of your Zep/Stones close encounters knowledge, too, because clearly these two bands were tighter than expected.

Much appreciated!!

(Jimmy played solo on The Stone's song One Hit to the Body in 1985.)

"Jimmy is featured on lead guitar, but for contractural reasons was not credited on the sleeve notes." - Rolling Stones The Complete Recording Sessions.

(Jimmy and Bill Wyman were close friends, mostly in the studio. Bill mentions Jimmy numerous times in his autobiography, Stone Alone. Below are a few facts from that book):

*A memo from Andrew Loog Oldham read, "[in 1965] We will be bringing in new producers while our main hope lies with the top session guitarist who's turned producer, Jimmy Page, and my two friends, Mick and Keith."

*Bill further claims Led Zeppelin as "the biggest rock band of the seventies."

*Jimmy was rumored as a "possible successor" for filling Brian Jones' position before Brian's death.

(I always thought it was immediately after.)

And many more.....

On June 22 1968 Jimmy played three unreleased Yardbirds tracks for Bill Wyman of The Rolling Stones at Olympic Studios in Barnes, London. Bill was in producing The End.

There were "Page to Join Stones" rumors in '75 & '77. On Oct 28 1977 Jimmy granted a brief interview to Tim Blackmore of Capitol Radio to quash all the flak in the music press, affirm Led Zeppelin shall continue and that he was not joining The Rolling Stones. This

interview was conducted at the Swan Song Offices at 484 Kings Road in Chelsea.

Bill Wyman did some solo session work at The Sol in Cookham (a studio owned at the time by Jimmy) on March 7 1981 and it sparked off "Jimmy Page to Join the Rolling Stones" rumors in the British press.

Yes, Jimmy made uncredited guitar contributions to 'One Hit To The Body' and 'Back To Zero' while hanging out with them at Pathe Marconi Studios in Boulogne-Billancourt, Paris, France (The Rolling Stones were in that studio from Apr 8 thru Jun 17 1985). The

funniest anecdote I can tell you (paraphrased here) is at one point Keith stormed out feeling upstaged and when he returned he said "I'll show you something you clever bastard" and layed down a terrific riff.

A mere three days after Led Zeppelin's Live Aid reunion, Jimmy visited The Rolling Stones at Right Track Recording (Studios A, B & C) 168 West 38th Street 10036 in NYC on

July 16 & 17 1985. The Stones were continuing to record tracks for their forthcoming album 'Dirty Work'.

Jimmy attended one of their Steel Wheels tour gigs at Wembley Stadium in 1989, as well as their "secret Wembley warm up gig" at Shepherds Bush Empire on June 8, 1999.

There are so many other anecdotes concerning Jimmy and The Stones. Their paths crossed in NYC on Led Zeppelin's '75 & '77 tour, and a fair amount of hanging about

was had by all.

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And Jimmy and Bill crossed paths again at the O2 concert in 2007. Coincidence or what??? :D

From what I've just read in Steve's post, it's a wonder Jimmy didn't join The Stones as a silent partner, collect some royalties, and call it a day. Now that would be a clever bastardly thing to do!

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Jimmy also played on a version of "This Heart of Stone" in July 1964, as well as a version of "Paint It Black" and "Out of Time" in March 1966. Both didn't make the final official Stone single releases but Jimmy did use his instrumental version of "Paint It Black" as backing for Chris Farlowe's single of the same name as well as his mega-hit "Out of Time".

Also after Mick Taylor quit there were rumours that Page would join the Stones, and also again when Richards had his drug conviction problems in the late 1970s (which forced Page to tell Richards publicly they weren't true).

I recall on the FBO list sometime ago Page was also involved in jamming with the Stones on a number of songs in November 1972. These included "Criss Cross Man", "Through the Lonely Nights", and "Tops".

On June 22 1968 Jimmy played three unreleased Yardbirds tracks for Bill Wyman of The Rolling Stones at Olympic Studios in Barnes, London. Bill was in producing The End.

There were "Page to Join Stones" rumors in '75 & '77. On Oct 28 1977 Jimmy granted a brief interview to Tim Blackmore of Capitol Radio to quash all the flak in the music press, affirm Led Zeppelin shall continue and that he was not joining The Rolling Stones. This

interview was conducted at the Swan Song Offices at 484 Kings Road in Chelsea.

Bill Wyman did some solo session work at The Sol in Cookham (a studio owned at the time by Jimmy) on March 7 1981 and it sparked off "Jimmy Page to Join the Rolling Stones" rumors in the British press.

Yes, Jimmy made uncredited guitar contributions to 'One Hit To The Body' and 'Back To Zero' while hanging out with them at Pathe Marconi Studios in Boulogne-Billancourt, Paris, France (The Rolling Stones were in that studio from Apr 8 thru Jun 17 1985). The

funniest anecdote I can tell you (paraphrased here) is at one point Keith stormed out feeling upstaged and when he returned he said "I'll show you something you clever bastard" and layed down a terrific riff.

A mere three days after Led Zeppelin's Live Aid reunion, Jimmy visited The Rolling Stones at Right Track Recording (Studios A, B & C) 168 West 38th Street 10036 in NYC on

July 16 & 17 1985. The Stones were continuing to record tracks for their forthcoming album 'Dirty Work'.

Jimmy attended one of their Steel Wheels tour gigs at Wembley Stadium in 1989, as well as their "secret Wembley warm up gig" at Shepherds Bush Empire on June 8, 1999.

There are so many other anecdotes concerning Jimmy and The Stones. Their paths crossed in NYC on Led Zeppelin's '75 & '77 tour, and a fair amount of hanging about

was had by all.

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Jimmy also played on a version of "This Heart of Stone" in July 1964, as well as a version of "Paint It Black" and "Out of Time" in March 1966.

Before creating Led Zeppelin in 1968, Page spent time as one of the Yardbirds, who had gotten their start like the Stones surrounding the Alexis Korner scene in London. But before that, he was also a session musician, working in the early to mid-1960s with artists like Brenda Lee and the early David Bowie. In 1964 he also participated at Andrew Oldham Orchestra sessions as well and plays on their version of Heart of Stone (which appears on the Metamorphosis album). At this point, when Brian started becoming more incapacitated and troublesome to the band, the Stones toyed with the idea of replacing Brian with Page, as Bill Wyman later revealed..

http://www.timeisonourside.com/whydontLQ.html

HEART OF STONE

First recorded in July of 1964 with Jimmy Page, that version was not released until 1975, on the album Metamorphosis. Re-recorded November 2, '64 and released two weeks later in the US as a single, and then released in the US on the album The Rolling Stones Now in February of 1965. Released in September of '65 in the UK on the album Out Of Our Heads.

Lead Vocal: Mick Jagger Weaving Electric Guitars: Keith Richards & Brian Jones Bass: Bill Wyman Drums: Charlie Watts Tambourine: Mick Jagger (?) or Brian Jones (?) Background Vocals: Mick Jagger & Bill Wyman

http://www.keno.org/stones_lyrics/heart_of_stone.htm

Recording began on November 2, 1964 at Los Angeles' RCA Studios. Each of the Stones plays their respective instruments, with Jagger on vocals, Richards and Brian Jones on guitars, Bill Wyman on bass, and Charlie Watts on drums. Jack Nitzsche performs both tambourine and piano.

"Heart of Stone" was released in December 1964, and became their second Top 20 hit in the US, reaching #19. The song was released the following February on the US-only album The Rolling Stones, Now!, but was not given a UK release until September 1965 release of Out of Our Heads. It would later be included on the compilation discs Hot Rocks and Big Hits (High Tide and Green Grass).

A different, longer version released in 1975 on the album Metamorphosis had been recorded on 21-23 July 1964 with Jimmy Page on guitar and Clem Cattini on drums, probably as a demo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Stone_(song)

The tracks were recorded from 1964-70 as follows:

Jun 10-11, 1964 at Chess Studios in Chicago

.....Don't Lie To Me (a Chuck Berry song, STILL wrongly credited to Jagger & Richards)

Jun 29 - Jul 7, 1964 at Regent Sound and Decca Studios in London

.....#Try A Little Harder (with Jimmy Page)

.....#Some Things Just Stick In Your Mind (with Jimmy Page)

Jul, 1964 at Regent Sound in London.....#Heart Of Stone (Metamorphosis has the only release of this version)http://www.amazon.com/Metamorphosis-Rolling-Stones/dp/B00006AW2F

037 1 Heart Of Stone 3'49 AOO Session, Regent Sound Studios, London 1964-07-21ff Brian Jones, Keith Richards, Charlie Watts and Bill Wyman not present; guitar by John McLaughlin; bass by Jimmy Page; drums by Clem Cattini

The Rolling Stones, 1962-200X: Cool, Calm & Collected

Long-Term Digital Project © by Felix Aeppli

Ph.D. & Expert on Contemporary Artistic Media, CH-8055 Zurich / Switzerland

http://aeppli.ch/Cool/Ent030-037A.html

640831A 31st August - 4th September (not 2nd September): London, Regent Sound

Studios and Decca Studios. Producer: Andrew Oldham.

- We're Wastin' Time (MJ/KR) -demo for Jimmy Tarbuck; Metamorphosis-version

Musicians: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/Jim Sullivan (gtr)/John McLaughlin (gtr)/

Jimmy Page (gtr, maybe bass)/Joe Moretti (gtr)/John Paul

Jones (maybe bass)/Andy White (dr)/Mike Leander (arranger)

http://www.nzentgraf.de/books/tcw/1964.htm

'Cause she'll never break never break never break never break this Heart of Stone
Edited by eternal light

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In '65 we almost asked (Brian) to leave before Zeppelin was formed, when we were going to ask Jimmy Page. We thought of asking him to leave 5 or 6 times.

How awkward, since The Rolling Stones were founded by Brian Jones! Bill Wyman

was invited to join because he had the best gear...expensive amps and what not.

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How awkward, since The Rolling Stones were founded by Brian Jones! Bill Wyman

was invited to join because he had the best gear...expensive amps and what not.

Also Stones-related but not mentioned yet - Jimmy also played on Brian Jones' soundtrack to the German film Mord und Totschlag (A Degree of Murder). Had Jones not tragically died I have a gut feeling both of them may have had future collaborations. Jones was very much into middle-eastern folk and Indian music.

mord_und_totschlag_pl1.jpg

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Also Stones-related but not mentioned yet - Jimmy also played on Brian Jones' soundtrack to the German film Mord und Totschlag (A Degree of Murder). Had Jones not tragically died I have a gut feeling both of them may have had future collaborations.

Certainly possible. I recall Jimmy speaking at length about his (Jimmy's) abiding interest in trance music and the Jujouka, with whom Brian had recorded, when in conversation

with William S. Burroughs in New York (1975)

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Also Stones-related but not mentioned yet - Jimmy also played on Brian Jones' soundtrack to the German film Mord und Totschlag (A Degree of Murder). Had Jones not tragically died I have a gut feeling both of them may have had future collaborations. Jones was very much into middle-eastern folk and Indian music.

Interesting- I've never heard Jimmy mention this soundtrack in any interview of his that I've read over 35 years. Maybe working with Anita Pallenberg would give anybody instant amnesia. ^_^ Still, I've often wondered about a potential Page/Jones collaberation as well. They both loved the blues and ethnic music (and velvet jackets). Wow, what a team they could have made- probably could have invented a whole new genre of music, too. Ironically, while Brian was playing the heck out of the maracas on Jumpin' Jack Flash and Jimmy was firmly entrenched in a Yardbirds nightmare, I have to wonder why Peter Grant didn't try to pull Brian into Jimmy's future band plans? Brian was mulit-talented with almost any stringed instrument. No doubt he could have played bass if asked to join Jimmy's "super group."

ps- How come I've never seen a picture of Jimmy & Brian together? Are there any out there? I couldn't find one.

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A DEGREE OF MURDER (a.k.a. MORD UND TOTSCHLAG) 1967

GER. film. When a young woman accidentally kills her ex-lover during a fight, she decides to conceal the body. Then she becomes involved with not one but both of the men she finds to help her dispose his body at a construction site. And this is just one of her many problems! Rolling Stones' Brian Jones scored the soundtrack and shows up in a scene. Anita Pallenberg, Hans-Peter Hallwachs, Manfried Fischbeck, Werner Enke, Angela Hillebrecht. A Degree Of Murder! Bonus Selections: Rare Brian Jones & Rolling Stones clips; 1960s music & newsreels.

Note: All music in soundtrack was composed, arranged and produced by Brian Jones (with Glyn Johns engineering). The soundtrack also featured session musicians Jimmy Page (guitar), Nicky Hopkins (piano), Kenny Jones (drums) and Peter Gosling (background vocals). Brian played all the other instruments including: sitar, organ, recorder, banjo, harpsichord, autoharp, dulcimer, clarinet, and harmonica. This soundtrack has never been released on LP, CD, etc.

http://www.thevideobeat.com/store/mod-movi...urder-1967.html

The soundtrack by Pallenberg's boyfriend Brian Jones has unfortunately been lost. It has never had an official release, the closest to the soundtrack is by buying the film. Jones was the first rock musician to write and perform a soundrack for a film. It was recorded between late 1966 and early 1967.

The musicians used were:

Brian Jones: Sitar, organ, recorder, cello, banjo, harpsichord, autoharp, dulcimer, clarinet and harmonica. (Also composed, produced, arranged)

Jimmy Page: Guitar

Nicky Hopkins: Piano

Peter Gosling: Background vocals, (rumoured to have played Mellotron)

Kenney Jones: Drums

Glyn Johns: Engineer

Mike Leander, Orchestra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Degree_of_Murder

There are unofficial soundtracks of the bootleg variety floating around the net, but the original soundtrack is considered lost so far. For authenticity, it's best to obtain a dvd of the film from an authorized source.

Edited by eternal light

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There are unofficial soundtracks of the bootleg variety floating around the net, but the original soundtrack is considered lost so far. For authenticity, it's best to obtain a dvd of the film from an authorized source.

Degree was such a bizzare (and low budget) film project. I can't imagine why Jimmy agreed to help out especially when he had his own woes and obligations with The Yardbirds. Like he had time to do this soundtrack, tour the states, work on new sound effects, record and produce, etc? It must have been a rush job at best. That's probably why he won't talk about it- no doubt the sound quality alone didn't meet his standards. Best to leave this one unsolved...you can't dust for lost soundtracks!

:)

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I just read in my book Rolling With the Stones that Jimmy was involved with a record label called "Immediate Records" which began in 1965 and folded in 1970. According to Bill Wyman, "Jimmy produced, played on and arranged many of the singles." Which is odd because Jimmy was anti-singles when with the Yardbirds, right?

Here's some more info about the record company: Stylus Magazine

Another Immediate Records gem: V.A.%20-%20White%20Boy%20Blues%20Vol.01%20-%20Front.jpg featuring Page, Beck, Mayall, and Clapton. Very nice.

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In August 1968, Jones was still considered a member of the Rolling Stones, although his position in the band was waning. I would imagine the Stones management would tell Grant to politely go away if he approached Jones with an offer.

Meg

Interesting- I've never heard Jimmy mention this soundtrack in any interview of his that I've read over 35 years. Maybe working with Anita Pallenberg would give anybody instant amnesia. ^_^ Still, I've often wondered about a potential Page/Jones collaberation as well. They both loved the blues and ethnic music (and velvet jackets). Wow, what a team they could have made- probably could have invented a whole new genre of music, too. Ironically, while Brian was playing the heck out of the maracas on Jumpin' Jack Flash and Jimmy was firmly entrenched in a Yardbirds nightmare, I have to wonder why Peter Grant didn't try to pull Brian into Jimmy's future band plans? Brian was mulit-talented with almost any stringed instrument. No doubt he could have played bass if asked to join Jimmy's "super group."

ps- How come I've never seen a picture of Jimmy & Brian together? Are there any out there? I couldn't find one.

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I just read in my book Rolling With the Stones that Jimmy was involved with a record label called "Immediate Records" which began in 1965 and folded in 1970. According to Bill Wyman, "Jimmy produced, played on and arranged many of the singles." Which is odd because Jimmy was anti-singles when with the Yardbirds, right?

Jimmy was Immediate's ace session guitarist, session work was his bread and butter,

and it was very much a singles-oriented business back then.

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Jimmy was Immediate's ace session guitarist, session work was his bread and butter,

and it was very much a singles-oriented business back then.

Yes, session guitarist and producer. A good website for this is Vinylnet. You might want to scroll down the list, quite a few familiar names which Page is connected with either performing on and/or producing:

http://www.vinylnet.co.uk/label-discograph...iscography.html

Meg

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Jimmy also played on a version of "This Heart of Stone" in July 1964, as well as a version of "Paint It Black" and "Out of Time" in March 1966. Both didn't make the final official Stone single releases but Jimmy did use his instrumental version of "Paint It Black" as backing for Chris Farlowe's single of the same name as well as his mega-hit "Out of Time".

Also after Mick Taylor quit there were rumours that Page would join the Stones, and also again when Richards had his drug conviction problems in the late 1970s (which forced Page to tell Richards publicly they weren't true).

I recall on the FBO list sometime ago Page was also involved in jamming with the Stones on a number of songs in November 1972. These included "Criss Cross Man", "Through the Lonely Nights", and "Tops".

That version of "Heart Of Stone" is on the Rolling Stones Metamorphosis album, which is not entirley the Rolling Stones. Many tracks on that album, including "Heart Of Stone", are studio musicians with Mick Jagger singing.

I read in an interview with Jimmy Page, in Hit Parader, in 1967 when Jimmy was with the Yardbirds, where Jimmy said he was not on any of the Stones records but that he did some things with them just for fun. So I assume "Heart Of Stone" is from that.

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On 8/7/2008 at 2:18 PM, zeptangerine said:

And Jimmy and Bill crossed paths again at the O2 concert in 2007. Coincidence or what??? :D

 

From what I've just read in Steve's post, it's a wonder Jimmy didn't join The Stones as a silent partner, collect some royalties, and call it a day. Now that would be a clever bastardly thing to do!

Probably not. Known one another for years and JP and Paul Rodgers contributed to the Willie And The Poor Boys project helmed by Bill Wyman just before the JP and PR formed the Firm.

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