dragster Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 I'd like to know what really happened in that incident and why the lousy cops attacked the crowd.....surely being in RIGHT-WING Italy, the reason the "authorities" attacked was political!! . Comments welcome of course! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin_European_Tour_1971 <Though being very short in duration, this concert tour was well known, primarily because of the extremely violent crowd disturbance which took place at the band's concert at the Vigorelli Velodrome in Milan on July 5.[3][4] This festival appearance in front of an audience of 15,000 people was abandoned when hundreds of tear-gas wielding riot police charged into the crowd. The group were forced to leave the stage and many fans were injured. Some of the group's equipment was also damaged in the chaos. The concert has been described as one of the low points of Led Zeppelin's career, and the band never returned to Italy again.[5]> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Evidently the crowd was on its feet. The security wanted them seated. I don't know if it's so much "right-wing" politics, or just the fact that they might not have experienced with or been prepared for a rocking crowd standing for a performance, and they overreacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIC Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 I'd like to know what really happened in that incident and why the lousy cops attacked the crowd.....surely being in RIGHT-WING Italy, the reason the "authorities" attacked was political!! . Comments welcome of course! The concert has been described as one of the low points of Led Zeppelin's career, and the band never returned to Italy Here's what I found, Dragster. It's in Italian, though. Both you and I can understand it.. http://cattolicaeraclearock.splinder.com/ 1971. I poliziotti in tenuta antisommossa ; degli estranei nel backstage e la gente che continuava ad entrare in un Velodromo Vigorelli stracolmo. Ecco come si presentava la Milano “violenta” post ’68 . I Led Zeppelin avvertono subito il pericolo quando entrano nel catino del Vigorelli. Vogliono suonare subito per arrivare prima possibile all’aeroporto.”Notammo masse di fumo che arrivavano dal retro dell’ovale” racconta Page nella biografia di Stephen Davis , “Il Martello degli Dei”. Il promoter ci chiese di dire ai ragazzi di smetterla di accendere fuochi”. Tutto inutile : il fumo cresceva nella tensione generale , tra lanci di bottiglie e urla. A un certo punto , la polizia inizia una carica dal fondo regalando manganellate e lacrimogeni. Al pubblico delle prime file non resta che saltare su palco . Frastornati , gli Zeppelin abbandonano la scena , e riescono a rifugiarsi nella sala di pronto soccorso. Quando tornano fuori l’attrezzatura e dei loro strumenti non resta nulla : la folla ha fatto a pezzi tutto . Delusi e frustati , al bar dell’hotel sfiorano la rissa con giornalista. Sul volo di ritorno a casa , Robert Plant scoppia a piangere. http://www.movimentiprog.net/modules.php?o...=592&page=1 Una delle caratteristiche, purtroppo poco lusinghiere, della scena musicale italiana nella prima metà degli anni Settanta era rappresentata dalla delicata situazione dell’ordine pubblico in occasione dei concerti. Al grido di “riprendiamoci la musica”, infatti, gruppi di esagitati pretendevano costantemente di assistere alle esibizioni degli artisti senza pagare il biglietto, scontrandosi quasi immancabilmente con gli organizzatori e le forze di polizia. «La situazione precipitò definitivamente il 5 luglio del 1971 al velodromo Vigorelli di Milano. In scena quella sera c’erano i Led Zeppelin, ma vera protagonista dello show fu la violentissima guerriglia scoppiata tra i giovani spettatori, accorsi per assistere all’esibizione, e le forze dell’ordine... Da quel 5 luglio in poi non vi fu concerto di una certa risonanza senza il tentativo di superare le recinzioni e senza i consueti scontri con la polizia... La tensione si acuì a partire dal 1973. Una spirale di violenza avvolse i concerti per due anni: da una parte migliaia di giovani, dall’altra gli organizzatori e le forze dell’ordine. Il 17 marzo a Bologna le contestazioni culminarono con un principio di incendio al palazzetto in cui era stata organizzata l’esibizione dei Jethro Tull. Nel 1974 la tournée dei Soft Machine fu segnata da gravi incidenti a Reggio Emilia e a Napoli. Gli scontri continuarono ad accendersi fino all’abbandono delle scene da parte dell’impresario Mamone, in seguito allo scoppio di una vera e propria guerriglia urbana, il 2 aprile a Roma al concerto dei Traffic. Ma l’ultimo atto verrà messo in scena l’anno successivo, quando, nel corso di un concerto di Lou Reed a Roma, organizzato da David Zard, la battaglia intrapresa contro le forze dell’ordine si protrae fino alle due del mattino» (18). Don't know if this helps to give you an explanation of what happened.. The 70's as you probably already know were surely a very difficult and messy time back then in Italy. Mostly for political reasons as you said. Those were the years of the beginning of the BR, Brigate Rosse (Red Brigades), a terrorist and revolutionary movement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Two years before the LZ concert, on Dec 12th, the Piazza Fontana bombing, do you remember that? You have surely heard about that. I was very little in the 70's but I still remember as I was growing up the tension and danger of those years. I have still memories of my parents' conversations about the " terroristi' and le brigate rosse and the absolute terror atmosphere they created. Again, I was very little but I vividly recall those feelings.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piazza_Fontana_bombing Led Zeppelin, basically, were unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time. Very sad, because they never came back to play as Zep in Italy after that (pretty understandable), but also this gave them a negative impression on our country which again unfortunately was reflecting the political state we were in at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators sam_webmaster Posted August 7, 2008 Administrators Share Posted August 7, 2008 I wrote a piece about it some years ago. It's in the "notes" section on the Timeline page for this show. http://www.ledzeppelin.com/show/july-5-1971 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Great Sam! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIC Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 I wrote a piece about it some years ago. It's in the "notes" section on the Timeline page for this show. http://www.ledzeppelin.com/show/july-5-1971 Thanks, Sam. I have never read about this in such detailed description of the events. Must have been pretty scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Thanks, Sam. I have never read about this in such detailed description of the events. Must have been pretty scary. I read a lot of what Sam quoted in books years ago. The quotes from the band about the incident and such. The "Please stop lighting those fires." and the road crew rescuing gear and all that. I flipped through a few books, but couldn't find it. Fortunate for me that I didn't as I'd probably still be typing the majority of what Sam just gave us in a quick link!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIC Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Fortunate for me that I didn't as I'd probably still be typing the majority of what Sam just gave us in a quick link!! I know, Evster. In my case, I was trying to give a political insight to the unfortunate happening, but in the end who cares about that.... The good thing about my post is that Dragster will have some reading to do so he can practise his Italian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 The good thing about my post is that Dragster will have some reading to do so he can practise his Italian That he will! And I won't have to dig through a bunch of books in a mad frenzy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenomenal Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 I'm Italian In 70 in Italy there was a very difficult political climate, culminate in the murders by the Brigate Rosse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragster Posted August 7, 2008 Author Share Posted August 7, 2008 I'm Italian In 70 in Italy there was a very difficult political climate, culminate in the murders by the Brigate Rosse. I'm sorry to "guastare la tua festa", but the young Fascist groups backed by the same RIGHT-WING (e RIBADISCO....di DESTRA!!) authorities started the fire.....and THAT culminated with Bologna '80 and other "nefandezze" di DESTRA!!).....just a reminder, lest we forget!!! Anyway, all of this cost LZ's presence in Italy...THAT will never be forgotten! Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragster Posted August 7, 2008 Author Share Posted August 7, 2008 I know, Evster. In my case, I was trying to give a political insight to the unfortunate happening, but in the end who cares about that.... The good thing about my post is that Dragster will have some reading to do so he can practise his Italian Grazie tante Amazonic!! :):) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenomenal Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 I'm sorry to "guastare la tua festa", but the young Fascist groups backed by the same RIGHT-WING (e RIBADISCO....di DESTRA!!) authorities started the fire.....and THAT culminated with Bologna '80 and other "nefandezze" di DESTRA!!).....just a reminder, lest we forget!!! Anyway, all of this cost LZ's presence in Italy...THAT will never be forgotten! Robert. In fact, I was not justifying what happened that day. I was just saying that '70 for us weren't simple. '70 in Italy, were a bad patch. (and Brigate Rosse aren't a group of Destra. They're a group of extreme Sinistra.) And sorry if I bad understood or I write something wrong, but my english isn't very well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragster Posted August 7, 2008 Author Share Posted August 7, 2008 In fact, I was not justifying what happened that day. I was just saying that '70 for us weren't simple. '70 in Italy, were a bad patch. (and Brigate Rosse aren't a group of Destra. They're a group of extreme Sinistra.) And sorry if I bad understood or I write something wrong, but my english isn't very well! :) Don't worry Phenomenal....it's OK!! Your English is not the worst I've seen and I can safely say that because I'm in the language business for the BC in Italy! You get the message through all the same. But the action of the "estrema sinistra" was/is only a simple REACTION to the actions of the "estrema destra".....and if history is not "solo una opinione" , the right-wingers have a BIG role in Italian society.....and unfortunately, we all know where that took us (ref. WWII)!!! Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragster Posted August 7, 2008 Author Share Posted August 7, 2008 Returning to the LZ incident, I saw an Italian movie set in the 60s on Italy where a taxi driver says (clearly right-wing) says: "se la società è corrotta oggi, è tutta colpa di quei CAPELLONI INGLESI..." = "if our society is corrupt today, it's the fault of those LONG-HAIRED ENGLISH BANDS....", a clear reference to the Beatles and the Rolling Stones of the 60s. This 'deviating' belief is STILL very strong in the Italian mentality, that's why I brought the 'social-political' matter up in this topic. Ponder people ponder! Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragster Posted August 7, 2008 Author Share Posted August 7, 2008 Here's what I found, Dragster. It's in Italian, though. Both you and I can understand it.. http://cattolicaeraclearock.splinder.com/ 1971. I poliziotti in tenuta antisommossa ; degli estranei nel backstage e la gente che continuava ad entrare in un Velodromo Vigorelli stracolmo. Ecco come si presentava la Milano "violenta" post '68 . I Led Zeppelin avvertono subito il pericolo quando entrano nel catino del Vigorelli. Vogliono suonare subito per arrivare prima possibile all'aeroporto."Notammo masse di fumo che arrivavano dal retro dell'ovale" racconta Page nella biografia di Stephen Davis , "Il Martello degli Dei". Il promoter ci chiese di dire ai ragazzi di smetterla di accendere fuochi". Tutto inutile : il fumo cresceva nella tensione generale , tra lanci di bottiglie e urla. A un certo punto , la polizia inizia una carica dal fondo regalando manganellate e lacrimogeni. Al pubblico delle prime file non resta che saltare su palco . Frastornati , gli Zeppelin abbandonano la scena , e riescono a rifugiarsi nella sala di pronto soccorso. Quando tornano fuori l'attrezzatura e dei loro strumenti non resta nulla : la folla ha fatto a pezzi tutto . Delusi e frustati , al bar dell'hotel sfiorano la rissa con giornalista. Sul volo di ritorno a casa , Robert Plant scoppia a piangere. http://www.movimentiprog.net/modules.php?o...=592&page=1 Una delle caratteristiche, purtroppo poco lusinghiere, della scena musicale italiana nella prima metà degli anni Settanta era rappresentata dalla delicata situazione dell'ordine pubblico in occasione dei concerti. Al grido di "riprendiamoci la musica", infatti, gruppi di esagitati pretendevano costantemente di assistere alle esibizioni degli artisti senza pagare il biglietto, scontrandosi quasi immancabilmente con gli organizzatori e le forze di polizia. «La situazione precipitò definitivamente il 5 luglio del 1971 al velodromo Vigorelli di Milano. In scena quella sera c'erano i Led Zeppelin, ma vera protagonista dello show fu la violentissima guerriglia scoppiata tra i giovani spettatori, accorsi per assistere all'esibizione, e le forze dell'ordine... Da quel 5 luglio in poi non vi fu concerto di una certa risonanza senza il tentativo di superare le recinzioni e senza i consueti scontri con la polizia... La tensione si acuì a partire dal 1973. Una spirale di violenza avvolse i concerti per due anni: da una parte migliaia di giovani, dall'altra gli organizzatori e le forze dell'ordine. Il 17 marzo a Bologna le contestazioni culminarono con un principio di incendio al palazzetto in cui era stata organizzata l'esibizione dei Jethro Tull. Nel 1974 la tournée dei Soft Machine fu segnata da gravi incidenti a Reggio Emilia e a Napoli. Gli scontri continuarono ad accendersi fino all'abbandono delle scene da parte dell'impresario Mamone, in seguito allo scoppio di una vera e propria guerriglia urbana, il 2 aprile a Roma al concerto dei Traffic. Ma l'ultimo atto verrà messo in scena l'anno successivo, quando, nel corso di un concerto di Lou Reed a Roma, organizzato da David Zard, la battaglia intrapresa contro le forze dell'ordine si protrae fino alle due del mattino» (18). Don't know if this helps to give you an explanation of what happened.. The 70's as you probably already know were surely a very difficult and messy time back then in Italy. Mostly for political reasons as you said. Those were the years of the beginning of the BR, Brigate Rosse (Red Brigades), a terrorist and revolutionary movement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Brigades Two years before the LZ concert, on Dec 12th, the Piazza Fontana bombing, do you remember that? You have surely heard about that. I was very little in the 70's but I still remember as I was growing up the tension and danger of those years. I have still memories of my parents' conversations about the " terroristi' and le brigate rosse and the absolute terror atmosphere they created. Again, I was very little but I vividly recall those feelings.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piazza_Fontana_bombing Led Zeppelin, basically, were unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time. Very sad, because they never came back to play as Zep in Italy after that (pretty understandable), but also this gave them a negative impression on our country which again unfortunately was reflecting the political state we were in at that time. Thank you very much for the heads up on the matter Amazonic.....grazie! . The problem here as to WHO or WHAT we call TERRORIST is RELATIVE.......EXTREMELY relative and there's an old Italian proverb I'm sure you know that goes: "cosa è venuto prima , l'uovo o la gallina?"......just to say that the POLITICAL FIRE was started by only ONE group many years ago.....and that group was on the RIGHT of the political spectrum. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeTheDuke Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 I'm italian and I think I pretty know what happened that day. I fortunately read many magazines, newspapers and so on, and I fortunately met several witness of that day. I see on this post that there's some kind of nasty political approach that I don't understand, today, and that's not so correct about that situation. It happened in 1971? right? to my knowledge that was the "long wave" of the '68 "revolution" and nothing so close to what will become the "terrorists-era". What happened? Promoters decided to include LZ in the same show with almost 28 other artists, well known and not: that's unbelivable still today, can you imagine during the early 70's? So the crowd was really interested on one show only ... you know the name of the band. At the same time, the Vigorelli was more than sold out and many fans (?!? ehm) remained outside the gate. During those years, it was pretty common to let the people get in for free when the concert started ... but this time there was no place and many many policemen were outside the Vigorelli (they knew that something wrong was in the air). Was it a political battle? was it a "I don't want to pay" battle? was it well organised in advance to start that mess? who knows ...? well, we know, I know ... That's for sure that police started using tear-gas, commonly used during political fights, .... inside the Vigorelli ... and the first word was "smoke = fire" ... The rest is history ... (Sam's post is a perfect sum up) I'm happy that nobody died. For sure live music in Italy died that day: since then we missed all the big and famous concerts and we had to remain in "limbo" for almost 5/7 year ... Right wing / left wing ?? that's all about stupidity and incompetence .. IMO of courrrrrrrse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenomenal Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 :) Don't worry Phenomenal....it's OK!! Your English is not the worst I've seen and I can safely say that because I'm in the language business for the BC in Italy! You get the message through all the same. But the action of the "estrema sinistra" was/is only a simple REACTION to the actions of the "estrema destra".....and if history is not "solo una opinione" , the right-wingers have a BIG role in Italian society.....and unfortunately, we all know where that took us (ref. WWII)!!! Robert. Yes, yes... The Rigt-Wingers had and have a very big role in Italian society, alas (is it the right word? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIC Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 But the action of the "estrema sinistra" was/is only a simple REACTION to the actions of the "estrema destra".....and if history is not "solo una opinione" , the right-wingers have a BIG role in Italian society.....and unfortunately, we all know where that took us (ref. WWII)!!! Robert. Rob, I second that! The actual political/ economical situation that Italy is living doesn't look too good. I just feel not so positive on the current scenario. My family still lives there and things do not look very rosy especially in everyday's life with increasing cost of living, unemployment, and much more. I am only worried that something may happen and there is nothing worse than to be so faraway from your beloved ones. Thank you very much for the heads up on the matter Amazonic.....grazie! . The problem here as to WHO or WHAT we call TERRORIST is RELATIVE.......EXTREMELY relative Nessun problema, Rob. Nice exchanging views with you. Talking about terrorists, BR and movimento di Estrema Destra is a very, very delicate topic... which can add only more fuel to the fire (non so se si dice proprio cosi', but you know what I mean).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragster Posted August 8, 2008 Author Share Posted August 8, 2008 :) Thanking YOU Amazonic for reading and replying in a very UNbiased way to what I'm trying to get across. I think that ONLY people who either live and work in Italy, have Italian origins and/or relatives can REALLY understand the verfy delicate and DANGEROUS right-wing FASCIST swerve the whole damn globe is taking......let's NOT forget that FASCISM and RIGHT-WING ideals were born in Italy and even Hitler learned from those RIGHT-WING ideals.........quoting Woody Guthrie: "WHEN will we ever learn?" Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ro_a Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 :) Thanking YOU Amazonic for reading and replying in a very UNbiased way to what I'm trying to get across. I think that ONLY people who either live and work in Italy, have Italian origins and/or relatives can REALLY understand the verfy delicate and DANGEROUS right-wing FASCIST swerve the whole damn globe is taking......let's NOT forget that FASCISM and RIGHT-WING ideals were born in Italy and even Hitler learned from those RIGHT-WING ideals.........quoting Woody Guthrie: "WHEN will we ever learn?" Robert. The United States is operating under something akin to a fascist coup. I can't tell whether it started in 1963, 1968 or 2000. In any case, dying in the struggle against it would be an honor. "Homeland" is a fascist word. So is "national security". Grrrrrrrr Obama 08 (if he stops moving to the middle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragster Posted August 8, 2008 Author Share Posted August 8, 2008 I know where you're coming from rockarolla!!!! :).....as long as there are people who think that all long-haired bands are a "Communist" threat like what happened during the Vigorelli incident, Fascism = RIGHT-WING IDEALS will keep its MORONIC head up!!! But be sure there are millions of peeps out there ready to cut it off again!!!! :) Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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