IF JOHN LENNON HAD LIVED, WOULD THE BEATLES HAVE REUNITED FOR ONE BIG CONCERT?

[ZeppFanForever]

whassup, ZFF? great band, that is true. whaddya think.....would they have played another if john had lived?

In my opinion, YES!

[ZeppFanForever]

Wrong.

so very wrong.

In your opinion, why am I wrong? Who led the British Invasion? Who did the first Rock video ever? Who was the first band or entertainer to ever perform live in a stadium which created new jobs in the music industry? Who recorded more number 1 hits and accomplished more than any music band in all of music history in 8 years than anyone else to this very day? Who was the first band to explore new sounds of music including Indian music? ROCK ON!

[beatbo]

In your opinion, why am I wrong? Who led the British Invasion? Who did the first Rock video ever? Who was the first band or entertainer to ever perform live in a stadium which created new jobs in the music industry? Who recorded more number 1 hits and accomplished more than any music band in all of music history in 8 years than anyone else to this very day? Who was the first band to explore new sounds of music including Indian music? ROCK ON!

those are very good questions with only one answer, ZFF....

[I have got a horsey]

all true. look for "the man who made the beatles" by ray coleman.....

I'm never sure about Ray Coleman, though. I have to say his Lennon biography was like Albert Goldman's one, except in the completely opposite direction, it was worshiping Lennon.

What did you think of the Goldman book? I thought it was quite fascinating actually, although whether you believe it or not is another matter. All that stink about John having had sex with Brian Epstein, but I remember Pete Shotton's book said it was true

There's a lot of books out there, like Dakota Days by John Green, Yoko's tarot card reader. That's another book that's interesting but you're not sure what to believe.

[danelectro59]

the first thing bernstein did with the beatles was carnegie hall (first rock band to play there). he was a small agent at GAC (general artists corporation) and at night a student in music business at the new york school for social research. his instructor made him read british newspapers. he was reading about the beatles daily and was riveted. summoning up the panache that would define his career, he called the beatles manager, brian epstein in the middle of 1963. having never heard a note of beatle music, he asked what the usual fees where for the beatles. he was told approximately $2000 a night-superstar money in those days. he offered brian a 2 show deal: $6500 for two shows in one day. 'where?" epstein asked. "carnegie hall" bernstein replied.

epstein couldn't believe it-wait until he told the boys! bernstein suggested 6 months from then-brian should have airplay by then (beatles having been unable to crack the american market so far). brian said "too soon." and bernstein pushed to febuary on a national school holiday. epstein agreed-with one condition: if the beatles did not have radio airply by then, he could cancel the gig.

of course, by the time they hit the states, they had the top 3 songs and 3 more in the top 20.

the rest is history.

but wait.....

on january 10th, 1965 bernstein called epstein and offered the beatles shea stadium. although the band was huge, brian couldn't believe it. 55, 000 seats...what about security? bernstein said he would take care of it. epstein was worried that the beatles could fill it-this had never been done before. bernstein assured him that the beatles could have sold 55, 000 seats at carnegie hall, if they had them. even after all the success, epstein was impressed with the idea. he wanted $100,000 up front against 60% of the gross. bernstein had just suffered 2 major tour flops with some one hit bands and was cash poor. he asked for a 2 payment deal of $50,000 each and 2 months grace on the first payment. epstein agreed-with one condition: the show couldn't be advertised until he had the upfront money. no press release, no media, no ads.

now bernstein had the largest concert ever and couldn't tell anybody. but he had a large gaggle of beatle fans that always hassled him, wanting the tip-off on the next set of shows. he turned to them and said that he couldn't advertise it, but the beatles were coming to shea stadium. if the fans wanted to reserve their ticket, they could send money to his p.o. box. 2 weeks later, he walked to the post to get his mail. he carried 3 letterbags of reservation money home that day. he wrote epstein a check for the entire $100,000 3 days later.

shea stadium was sold out without one ad or any mention in the press....

Just goes to show you how the business of R&R has changed. Notice there were no lawyers mentioned in those negotiations. Brian Epstein was known for doing business with a handshake and he got burned a few times, but he never the less had visions no one else at the time had.

As far as the Beatles returning for a concert? No, i don't think so. It would have been way too much hassle, which was what John didn't like. So, recording, maybe. Live performances, maybe on a closed set, ie; All You Need Is Love. But no live concert. If they would have, their last number would have to be Twist and Shout.

[beatbo]

I'm never sure about Ray Coleman, though. I have to say his Lennon biography was like Albert Goldman's one, except in the completely opposite direction, it was worshiping Lennon.

What did you think of the Goldman book? I thought it was quite fascinating actually, although whether you believe it or not is another matter. All that stink about John having had sex with Brian Epstein, but I remember Pete Shotton's book said it was true

There's a lot of books out there, like Dakota Days by John Green, Yoko's tarot card reader. That's another book that's interesting but you're not sure what to believe.

i have all of those. dakota days is a favorite-it reads like a historical novel. the scenes where lennon laid in bed until he peeled all the "other selves" off was a classic. at least that book portrayed john with some wit.

i liken the goldman book to hammer of the gods. i found very little humour in it which is one of my favorite things about john lennon.

ray coleman also wrote shout! which was the best of the 3 books. and unlike albert goldman, he actually knew the beatles and their manager.

peter brown's book was servicable and filled in some cracks, but not a definitive portrait by any means.

"the man who gave the beatles away" by allan williams is a decent read about the hamburg days.

"the longest cocktail party" by richard delillo is also a decent read about the apple office going nuts.

the spitz book is probably the most complete, and the anthology book the best read.

[ZeppFanForever]

i have all of those. dakota days is a favorite-it reads like a historical novel. the scenes where lennon laid in bed until he peeled all the "other selves" off was a classic. at least that book portrayed john with some wit.

i liken the goldman book to hammer of the gods. i found very little humour in it which is one of my favorite things about john lennon.

ray coleman also wrote shout! which was the best of the 3 books. and unlike albert goldman, he actually knew the beatles and their manager.

peter brown's book was servicable and filled in some cracks, but not a definitive portrait by any means.

"the man who gave the beatles away" by allan williams is a decent read about the hamburg days.

"the longest cocktail party" by richard delillo is also a decent read about the apple office going nuts.

the spitz book is probably the most complete, and the anthology book the best read.

How's it going "beatbo?" I also have and own every known Beatles book that exists. However, I do need to correct you on one book. While Ray Coleman wrote some great books like you mentioned, it was Philip Norman that wrote "Shout! The Beatles In Their Generation" and not Ray Coleman. We ought to talk about The Beatles sometime especially since you know a lot about The Beatles. As for "Hammer Of the Gods," are you referring to the LED ZEPPELIN Biography? If you are, it was Stephen Davis that wrote "Hammer Of The Gods" and not Albert Goldman. I, myself, have been guilty of mixing the wrong authors with certain books. I do love Bob Spitz's Biography on The Beatles. Just when you thought you heard everything that there is to know about The Beatles, Spitz surprises you with more additional information. ROCK ON!

[beatbo]

How's it going "beatbo?" I also have and own every known Beatles book that exists. However, I do need to correct you on one book. While Ray Coleman wrote some great books like you mentioned, it was Philip Norman that wrote "Shout! The Beatles In Their Generation" and not Ray Coleman. We ought to talk about The Beatles sometime especially since you know a lot about The Beatles. As for "Hammer Of the Gods," are you referring to the LED ZEPPELIN Biography? If you are, it was Stephen Davis that wrote "Hammer Of The Gods" and not Albert Goldman. I, myself, have been guilty of mixing the wrong authors with certain books. I do love Bob Spitz's Biography on The Beatles. Just when you thought you heard everything that there is to know about The Beatles, Spitz surprises you with more additional information. ROCK ON!

no, you're right about philip norman...who also wrote 'sympathy for the devil'. that book's not so good...

as for "hammer..." i was likening the type of book it is to albert goldman's: emphasis on drugs and debauchery, de-emphasis on genuis and humour. it may as well been written by davis, is what i meant to say...

thanks for the good catch! i would want people to read that book if they were going to buy a couple.

do you have the larry kane books? (ticket to ride and lennon revealed) not much in the way of definitive biography, but a little slice of life as affected by the beatles from his point of view.

also, what did you think of the mccartney book: 'many years from now' by barry miles?

i thought paul pretty much wrote alot of it, since miles is basically an interviewer/compiler. lot of 'corrective' history in that one, but a great book still.

anything by mark lewisohn, of course, is a fascinating read. 'the beatles recording sessions' and 'chronicle' are outstanding. i had to buy reading copies of all my books since some are very collectible, but i can't keep my hands off....

by the way, what did you think of "let me take you down" by jack jones? that book is fucking chilling....

[ZeppFanForever]

no, you're right about philip norman...who also wrote 'sympathy for the devil'. that book's not so good...

as for "hammer..." i was likening the type of book it is to albert goldman's: emphasis on drugs and debauchery, de-emphasis on genuis and humour. it may as well been written by davis, is what i meant to say...

thanks for the good catch! i would want people to read that book if they were going to buy a couple.

do you have the larry kane books? (ticket to ride and lennon revealed) not much in the way of definitive biography, but a little slice of life as affected by the beatles from his point of view.

also, what did you think of the mccartney book: 'many years from now' by barry miles?

i thought paul pretty much wrote alot of it, since miles is basically an interviewer/compiler. lot of 'corrective' history in that one, but a great book still.

anything by mark lewisohn, of course, is a fascinating read. 'the beatles recording sessions' and 'chronicle' are outstanding. i had to buy reading copies of all my books since some are very collectible, but i can't keep my hands off....

by the way, what did you think of "let me take you down" by jack jones? that book is fucking chilling....

I have every single book that you mentioned and have read them all. I really enjoyed reading them all. I love that book by Jack Jones, it has a lot of balls. I also loved reading The Complete Recording Sessions by Mark Lewisohn. Hell, I loved reading them all. There has been so many Beatles books released in the past that I cannot keep up with all of them. I know for fact that I own well over a hundred of them. I even own many books from the 1960's and 1970's that are now long out of print. Have you ever read the 1968 Biography of "The Beatles" by Hunter Davies? There are also some other books that I have read such as "A Cellarful Of Noise" by Brian Epstein (1964), "The Beatles, Lennon and Me" by Pete Shotton and Nicholas Schaffner (1983), "Love Me Do" by Michael Braun (1964), "The Birth of The Beatles" by Sam Leach (1999), "The Beatles" by Terence J. O'Grady (1983) and "Yesterday Came Suddenly" by Bob Cepican & Waleed Ali (1985) to name a few. ROCK ON!

[beatbo]

I have every single book that you mentioned and have read them all. I really enjoyed reading them all. I love that book by Jack Jones, it has a lot of balls. I also loved reading The Complete Recording Sessions by Mark Lewisohn. Hell, I loved reading them all. There has been so many Beatles books released in the past that I cannot keep up with all of them. I know for fact that I own well over a hundred of them. I even own many books from the 1960's and 1970's that are now long out of print. Have you ever read the 1968 Biography of "The Beatles" by Hunter Davies? There are also some other books that I have read such as "A Cellarful Of Noise" by Brian Epstein (1964), "The Beatles, Lennon and Me" by Pete Shotton and Nicholas Schaffner (1983), "Love Me Do" by Michael Braun (1964), "The Birth of The Beatles" by Sam Leach (1999), "The Beatles" by Terence J. O'Grady (1983) and "Yesterday Came Suddenly" by Bob Cepican & Waleed Ali (1985) to name a few. ROCK ON!

i collect 1st editions and i have two copies of "cellarful of noise" with the dustjackets. my 1st copy of 'authorized' i got in 8th grade and cut all the pictures out and hung them on the wall. i later found a 1st edition of that. the micheal braun book is a great book! and sam leach still thinks brian stole the beatles from him, does he?

the jack jones book made plenty out of chapman's obsession with both lennon and todd rungren (who john called sodd runtstutle in a 'open lettuce' to him in the '70's). excellent book.

[ZeppFanForever]

i collect 1st editions and i have two copies of "cellarful of noise" with the dustjackets. my 1st copy of 'authorized' i got in 8th grade and cut all the pictures out and hung them on the wall. i later found a 1st edition of that. the micheal braun book is a great book! and sam leach still thinks brian stole the beatles from him, does he?

the jack jones book made plenty out of chapman's obsession with both lennon and todd rungren (who john called sodd runtstutle in a 'open lettuce' to him in the '70's). excellent book.

How's it going again "beatbo?" I see that you are a major collector on The Beatles like I am. Jack Jones really got into the mind of Mark David Chapman from a hard core Beatles' fan's point of view. Just think, Chapman truly believed that the only way to be John Lennon was by killing the real John Lennon himself. And Chapman carried it out and followed through with it. Chapman was denied parole again and he always will. Chapman, to this day, still does not feel that he did anything wrong. Chapman, like Manson, will never get out of prison. Its really hard to believe that Chapman idolized The Beatles like Gods and he even had a Beatle haircut in High School. ROCK ON!

[jabe]

Well, thanks ZeppFanForever and beatbo.Because of you guys,I've spent the last two hours on You Tube enjoying Beatles concert footage.Much more to be mined from this.Thanks again.

[beatbo]

Well, thanks ZeppFanForever and beatbo.Because of you guys,I've spent the last two hours on You Tube enjoying Beatles concert footage.Much more to be mined from this.Thanks again.

if you can, look for footage from the beatles in australia. there is a concert where ringo just came back from being sick and they play their asses off. awesome crowd, too....not so much screaming and you can hear the band. excellent version of lennon singing 'you can't do that' from that show somewhere...

good luck!

[ZeppFanForever]

if you can, look for footage from the beatles in australia. there is a concert where ringo just came back from being sick and they play their asses off. awesome crowd, too....not so much screaming and you can hear the band. excellent version of lennon singing 'you can't do that' from that show somewhere...

good luck!

I have a lot of DVD footage of The Beatles' live performances in Australia. Temporary session drummer Jimmy Nicol did a great job filling in for Ringo when he was sick in the hospital. Lets face it, Nicol kicked ass on the drums. I think it motivated and inspired Ringo even more to improve his drumming techniques. ROCK ON!