Katie4pagey Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 1) Page wouldn't have said yes at all if it wasn't for Plant. Everyone counts in the decision, you know. 2) Jones helped Page put the band together. Jones called up Page to ask if he could be in the band. You can say that Page said yes, but Jones inquired about it in the first place. Again, everyone counts in this, not just Page. 3) All four members contributed to the composing and producing of the albums - I will admit that Page did most of the producing. 4) Page was heroined out by 1978 when the band reconvened. ITTOD was the first album where there were songs without Page in the song credits. There were no guitar driven songs apart from In The Evening. All of the rockers were thrown on Coda. I am not putting down Pagey but he wasn't the only reason why Zeppelin existed. Led Zeppelin was Led Zeppelin because of everyone who was involved, not just Jimmy. 'page wouldn't have said yes at all if it wasn't for plant'..huh, what are you talking about. page was looking at a different singer instead of robert. jones didn't help page but the band together. robert went to page's to play and get to know each other, jones wasn't there. everyone knows page's drug issues. again, they were together starting in 1968, page paid for their studio time himself, starting out as the second edition basically of the yardbirds, 1968 - 1978 is 10 years. i'm done with this conversation. robert has said himself that jimmy was the leader, especially initially. it had nothing to do with bonham, he did not lead the band! done now. And yes, there were guitar driven songs after 1978, page always did solos. Robert certain took leadership roles, he was their front man, extroverted, and did a great job, he usually took charge of the interviews, jimmy was introverted and shy and didn't like that part of it. The did all contribute, that's not the discussion. However, there is always a leader, a guide, etc..in any type of group situation, someone always takes the lead, and it's rarely that everyone contributes equally, even in a court appointed jury, there's a leader appointed. our country and every country has a 'leader', as does every band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzepfilm Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 1) Terry Reid was busy. He recommended Plant for Page, so he's responsible for introducing Plant into all of this. 2) I mean that if Robert was never in the equation, Bonham would have never been there either. 3) Page was obviously the leader in the early days, I will agree with that. 4) 1978-1980 was driven by Jones and Plant. Page had solos, yes, but that album wasn't like the riff driven Presence. All four members were leaders. No one was better than another. They were all equally amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie4pagey Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 1) Terry Reid was busy. He recommended Plant for Page, so he's responsible for introducing Plant into all of this. 2) I mean that if Robert was never in the equation, Bonham would have never been there either. 3) Page was obviously the leader in the early days, I will agree with that. 4) 1978-1980 was driven by Jones and Plant. Page had solos, yes, but that album wasn't like the riff driven Presence. All four members were leaders. No one was better than another. They were all equally amazing. Yes, Terry Reid was busy, I know all this. Introducing someone and putting a band together are two different things. No one else put them ALL together. No one said they weren't all equally amazing. All four members of anything cannot lead. You're not understand the concept here and a leader doesn't make anyone better. Robert was too naive and new, what...like 19 years old, never been to America or toured out of the country, a total unknown. Peter and Jimmy lead them to America...and paved their way through the music industry. there's no doubt about that - the had the music connections. Robert, Bonzo had no clue about any of it. It's not a fault, it's just a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzepfilm Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 How would Page find Robert if it wasn't for Reid? And Bonham without Robert? You're only talking about the early period. As I said, I agree that Page was the leader in 1968-69. But when the band became financially successful, the others started to help pave the band's path. I'm done debating about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah J Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I hope this is not derailing the thread. I thought this was such a great tribute about how magnificent they all were...then to end with Jason and Heart doing STH with the hats. It has always been about the music, will always be about the music. The heart of the band was lost when our Bonzo was gone. I am so proud to call them my band. My favorite line "THEIR music brought us to paradise" Still so emotional for me to watch this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badgeholder Still Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 "Hi Katie4pagey! The most disrespect any of us can do is argue as the music is supposed to bring us together and I totally understand and appreciate your point of view...but it was Robert who brought in Bonzo. All I can say is that I am so very glad that these four got together...the rest is history " Hi Deborah J Long time fan - short time poster I hope I don't offend you, but you seemed to passive-aggressively imply that it wasn't Katie4Pagey's right disagree with you. And that maybe she was even disrespecting the band by disagreeing with you. She wasn't arguing, only stating an opinion and I think she was right that you didn't really address the topic. Of course, I sincerely doubt this was your agenda. If we were all to agree on everything all of the time, there wouldn't be any point having a forum. I'm sure you can understand and appreciate my point of view. Thanks for considering it! My 2 cents: LZ was always Jimmy Page's band. Still is. His friendship and musical connection to Bonzo was so important that he couldn't continue without him and has never gotten over his death. It's obvious how uncomfortable he gets when it comes up at the O2 press conference. Despite Robert and Bonzo sharing a friendship predating Zep, it seems the band's musical triumphs more frequently depended on the success of Jimmy/Bonzo's connection. When one or both wasn't "on", the performance ultimately suffered. Nobody understood the value of John Bonham better than Jimmy. He knew the gig with Bonzo was a once in a lifetime thing. So after having Bonzo at his side making magick for 12 years, I don't blame him for "losing his way" or just not being inspired to keep producing and performing at that level. There's a lot of talk about how Jimmy should have gone on to do this or that. I think in general we're all pretty insensitive to how difficult it was for his bandmates to deal with Bonham's death. We just expected they would move on and keep entertaining us in the same way. So it was Jimmy's band, but Bonham was the lynchpin. Without the lynchpin the band couldn't and doesn't exist. So who played the most important role? In no way do I discount the roles of Jones or Plant. Ultimately, Jones was so dependable he was taken for granted. And we still celebrate and enjoy the instrumental success when Plant's voice was below par. I don't think the success of performances hinged on those two as much as the chemistry between Jimmy and Bonzo. Of course this is only my opinion. Feel free to disagree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagefan55 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Good post, Badgeholder Still. In truth, we forum members shouldn't be arguing over issues like this. As we all know, the band and it's legacy are presently under increasingly heavy fire from outsiders--from the "enemies of greatness" (lol)--on a number of different fronts--i.e.--the mostly spurious plagiarism allegations, etc. So, if we're going to waste our time engaging in heated/divisive arguments with anyone at all, it should be with these people, not with each other. I'd like to make one point. Led Zep could have continued-on without Bonham after 1980. It certainly wouldn't have been the same band post '80, and the band certainly wouldn't have been as great, but the three surviving members could have hired a new drummer and continued on as Led Zep. But now imagine, just for a second, an alternative scenario: What if Page had died in 1980? If that had occurred, it's impossible to imagine that the band could have continued on--the idea would have been inconceivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie4pagey Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Good post, Badgeholder Still. In truth, we forum members shouldn't be arguing over issues like this. As we all know, the band and it's legacy are presently under increasingly heavy fire from outsiders--from the "enemies of greatness" I'll debate and argue anything I want, we're not a bunch of 7 year olds who need to play nice in the sand box together. This is a public forum and the notion that we shouldn't disagree is ridiculous and again your comment is also passive aggressive. Let's not argue but hey...I'll share my own opinion too, which will be contradictory to yours, please. I highly doubt that band's legacy is in question at all. There have always been plagiarism allegations against the band, against many, many bands for that matter. Music is timeless and recycles itself. nothing new there. Page is considered one of the best guitarist, producers, composers, etc...of all time, bonzo top drummer, plant, jones, all top of their field. Zeppelin is also considered one of the top, highest grossing bands of all time, that's also a fact. Look at the out pouring for the O2 tickets, no issues with this band's 'legacy'. I'll also disagree that we are ALL insensitive to the band's loss when Bonzo passed away. It was tragic, to this day, still tragic. Thank god it wasn't Page, too because he was headed down a very slippery, dangerous path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagefan55 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 You're right, Katie4pagey, you certainly have the right to share your opinions and to debate/argue as much as you want too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzepfilm Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I think it's bad for you to have bad blood with anyone, which is why you should stop arguing about this. I can't argue over your aggressiveness (calling my points "nonsense"). This forum is to collaborate, not to create enemies with people you don't know. I'm not saying to stop sharing your opinions, but I do not want to debate about this any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melcórë Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirigible Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 As much as I'd like to say Bonham was the leader of the band I'm sure James Patrick would disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimm Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 John Bonham was a heavy drinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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