SteveAJones
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And interestingly, Jimmy had failed to turn up at a previous tribute to Ahmet - not a show, a dinner-do- a couple of years previously, also citing his health as the reason.
Oh yes, I forgot about that one. Ahmet Ertegun's British Music Industry Trust Award presentation dinner at The Grosvenor House Hotel in London on 10/17/00. Back pain
was cited as the reason Jimmy was unable to attend.
He was undergoing therapy for that injury at the time. This same injury had of course led to cancellation of the remaining dates of the tour with The Black Crowes a couple months prior.
Edit: I believe the last time Jimmy saw Ahmet was at the Warner Music Group's Grammy Awards after-show party held at the Biltmore Hotel in Los Angeles (2/12/05) where
they coversed at length. Jimmy, JPJ, Jason & Zoe Bonham had been presented a Lifetime Achievement Award during Special Merit Awards Ceremony earlier that day.
If anyone should happen to know differently, please post.
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Here's a promotional document from 1968 which confirms the name used for bookings was
Robert Plant and His Band of Joy.
Courtesy Steve A. Jones Archive
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The knee surgery must have been performed shortly after their appearance in Stockholm on 5/22/06. I believe the excuse for Jimmy not appearing was something to the effect of "recuperation from knee surgery slower than anticipated". Sounds plausible, though it may have been a convienent excuse if the whispers of tensions between them in Stockholm were based in truth.
Regardless, I don't think Claude Nobs would ever willfully mislead festival goers. He may have found himself in the middle of a situation beyond his control and simply held off until the last possible moment to allow for a change of heart or status. Important to
note once again Jimmy also cancelled his appearance with Roy Harper that August.
I don't regret at all having attended the Ahmet Ertegun Tribute in Montreux, I just felt he deserved full respect and support from all the artists who had committed to perform.
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^Well, I think my source was quite a reliable one...
Thanks for the PM to clarify. I'm compelled to contact Claude Nobs in writing.
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Oh, it was only a last-minute thing (lie or whatever) on the part of the promoters--they announced it the evening before the show and had apparently known for weeks!
This I really don't believe at all, for promoter Claude Nobs simply has too much integrity.
Bette Midler and Jeff Beck were two other notable no-shows at that event, and I don't recall their absence having been announced whatsoever. As I listened to Ahmet state
it was "the greatest night of my life" I could only imagine what possible excuse either
of them offered.
I had roundtrip airfare and two tickets for the Roy Harper gig about six weeks later which Jimmy also cancelled out on. Come the day I was so disappointed, I did not even go, disregarding altogether how much I would have enjoyed Roy's performance.
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Well, sitting around drinking and eating with a buddy isn't quite as demanding as standing (not to mention moving around) with a heavy guitar on stage.
Just playing devil's advocate, you understand. Maybe it was artistic or personal differences, and that's the polite excuse given, instead. But until I learn the actual story, I'm going with the fact (and it is a fact) that Page was suffering from knee pain at the time, enough to require eventual surgery.
I don't doubt he had the surgery, in hindsight I just question if he made sufficient effort to at least attend, if only out of respect for Ahmet, who died soonafter. I wouldn't be surprised if having missed it played into his decision to do the 02 event the next year.
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Without commenting on what was happening at Montreux, Page had arthroscopic knee surgery in 2006, didn't he? Knee problems would hardly be unheard of for a man of his age.
A knee problem was cited as why he could not attend, and most were sympathetic to
that excuse, until it was learned he and Ross Halfin were out on the town together in London the same night.
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Looked like the stage in Vancouver Mar 70. What a great vibe. Where did it go ?
The drug culture killed it.
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Hope you are not Lynn Truss, I was asked if Led Zeppelin have a Database,Do they?
They have their official timeline on this site, if that's what you mean.
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Regarding the bass player, again from Mick Bonhams book, a review from Tony Wilson of the Melody Maker:
"If anyone comes close to the rather vague definition "Folk Rock" it must be Tim Rose. Powerful singing backed by his own electric, augmented by bass and drums on folk based numbers such as "Morning Dew", "Long Time Man" and "Hey Joe" provided a stirring session at Blaises in London last Sunday. These heavy, soulful numbers were balanced by lighter songs such as "Hello Sunshine" and a five string banjo number "Foggy Mountain Breakdown" which gave a chance for drummer John Bonham and bass guitar Steve Dolan to take solos."
Hope this helps.
Is there no evidence to suggest Pegg played bass on this tour, aside from a brief
mention in A Thunder of Drums?
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That's correct, but no-one has been able to say when in June. I'd love to see further details on specific dates. And in that book Mick Bonham claims the bass player was Steve Dolan as opposed to Chris Welch's book which says it was Dave Pegg.
Meg
Correction to typo in post #3:
Hastings 6/28/68 according to 'Led Zeppelin: A Celebration' (earliest in June so far)
Note they apparently made a very long trek up to Sheffield the next day, leading me
to speculate this was among the first dates, if not the opening night of the tour.
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Hi all,
Regarding this discussion I looked at the liner notes of a booklet that accompanied the CD, "Sixty Six to Timbuktu" which were written by Robert. He writes........I persuaded Alexis Korner to hire me for a spell of interesting gigs. Alexis' encouragement was invaluable. His family gave me a home away from home. "Operator" was one of two cuts recorded together with the excellent Steve Miller on piano in London 1968. Simultaneously I was working with a Buffalo Springfield clone band OBSTWEEDLE when Jimmy Page, Peter Grant and Chris Dreja came to check me out one night in a empty venue in Birmingham.
I'll be damned, so we have more written confirmation in addition to verbal confirmation.
The only remaining point of contention concerns use of a hypen, an apostrophe or not.
Way to go, Lynn!
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Outstanding posts.
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So the pronounciation for Led is the same in English than in Spanish?
Well, last time I was in Spain it seemed to me it was. Regardless, Peter Grant was primarily concerned Lead would be mispronounced as lead ("as in lead you down the garden path) in the American market, to a lesser degree in the UK, not elsewhere.
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Steve, I found this correspondence from Bill Bonham in the letters column of the December 2007 issue of Brum Beat:
(edit)
So we've established so far it wasn't Robert's band and it was Bill Bonham's father who came up with the name, not any of the band members. Note the spelling though. It's with a hyphen not an apostrophe. So what does Obs-Tweedle mean? Obs is sometimes used as a standard dictionary shortening of "obscure". I've found one dictionary mention of tweedle:
–verb (used without object)
to produce high-pitched, modulated sounds, as a singer, bird, or musical instrument.
–verb (used with object)
to lure by or as by music: The Pied Piper tweedled the children into following him.
Maybe Obs-Tweedle thus means "Obscure sound"?
Meg
Absolutely splendid contribution! Roaring applause and a standing ovation for you, Meg.
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Steve here are more dates which can be confirmed with NME and Melody Maker reports: My goodness, there is so much information here you can almost hear his drums!
I shall be kept quite busy this evening with my John Bonham chronology. Thanks!
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Well Steve, I think the "Obs" pronunciation may just be the English manner of not pronouncing the "H" in some regions.
As for Elvish words for Hobbit: Periannath or Berian
I suspect that could well be his intent and I don't want to take it too far and assume he was asserting a particular spelling as well. It just seemed awkward the manner in which he abruptly corrected the foreign interviewer. Regardless, assuming "Obs'tweedle" is
correct it could be traditional spelling was altered to ensure proper pronounciation...just as "Lead Zeppelin" was changed to "Led Zeppelin".
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There is no Hobbstweedle in any of Tolkien's books with either spelling that I can find. My guess is that whoever coined the name was combining Hobbits and Tweedle, as in Tweedle Dum and Dee, merging Tolkein and Louis Carroll from Alice in Wonderland.
Evster, many thanks for the clarification of this matter. Your suggestion is certainly
worthy of further examination.
Edit: Does anyone know if there are variants to the pronunciation of the word "Hobbits" in Tolkien's Elvish Middle Earth Languages?
I ask because in the July 4 1998 interview to which I referred earlier the interviewer pronounces the word Hobbstweedle as "Hahbbstweedle" (the "H" is heard) and Robert immediately interjects with a corrective pronunciation of "Awhbstweedle" (the "H", if any, is silent). So there was a distinct difference in vocal inflection.
What I am getting at is the possibility Robert was correcting the pronunciation of the
band name as opposed to the spelling? Evster's suggestion is compelling enough to
merit a reconsideration of the original exchange between the interviewer and Robert.
However, bear in mind that newspaper ad from thirty years prior ("Obs' tweedle").
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Hi all,
Steve,where in LOTR is the word Hobbstweedle?
KB
In Post #987 of this thread Meg Ireland posted:
I wonder why Plant changed the spelling? It's Hobbstweedle in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.
I took what Meg said at face value. I'm not an avid Tolkien enthusiast, nor highly familiar with his work so perhaps someone here can confirm beyond any doubt if the name does or does not appear in Tolkien's books.
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oh is arabic... I thought that was Indian.. haha....
thanks...
Yallah originated within the Arabic language, but is also spoken amongst Hebrews
(it's meaning is "go") and Moroccans (loosely translated as "come on!" or "let's go!").
Robert undoubtedly became familiar with it during his many excursions to Morocco.
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Plant wasn't the first singer for the group. Their first singer for a short period was a guy called Robert Berry. So you can gather from that it wasn't Plant's band.
Good catch! Your absolutely right. The original singer (Robert Berry) was apparently struck with food poisoning. I'd made an error in my notes which mislead me to believe Robert had formed them but he merely joined the existing lineup as their new singer.
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Perhaps this Jimmy quote is a primary source of confusion over the group's name:
"I went up to see him sing. He was in a group called Obstweedle or Hobbstweedle, something like that, who were playing at a teachers training college outside of Birmingham - to an audience of about twelve people... you know, a typical student set up, where drinking is the prime consideration and the group is only of secondary importance." Jimmy didn't care for the band's San Francisco outlook, "but Robert was fantastic, and having heard him that night, and having listened to a demo he had given me, I realized that without a doubt his voice had an exceptional and very distinctive quality." -- Jimmy Page, ZigZag magazine interview (1973)
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I really, really don't want to nitpick--but Scotland is part of the UK. I meant to post Scotland and England. Apologies to all.
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However, as RP never quite got the hang of apostrophe use, my feeling is that its use in that ad was incorrect. He would have been more inclined to leave them out than to put them in, unnecessarily.
Excellent observation! Finding further examples of old adverts from this point in his career can be very difficult, but I certainly hope more will surface and this matter
resolved, completely and accurately, once and for all. Perhaps Robert may elect to
discuss it once again in a future interview, but he's so forward-focused I doubt it.
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Was it billed as Robert Plant and his Band of Joy or just Band of Joy? I know there were two incarnations of the group (at least my shaky memory tells me). Just curious.
There was inconsistency in their billing, essentially semantic, and to a far lesser extent than Led Zeppelin would experience.
Robert joined the lineup for "The Band of Joy" in January 1967, with at least two other lineups employed later in the year. They began a Sunday night residency at The Ship and Rainbow in Wolverhampton, arranged thru Nita Anderson Presentations. Their residency was ultimately terminated on account of objectionable lyrics, and Robert was fired soonafter for telling the drummer he was slowing down.
By Summer '67, Robert was back in The Band of Joy and John Bonham joined the group.
Around this time, the band began to be billed consistently as "Robert Plant and his Band of Joy". I have specific examples of this from three tours of Scotland they completed, in
addition to a number of UK gigs. Towards the end of the year and on into early '68,
they were occasionally billed as "Robert Plant and Band of Joy", "Robert Plant's Band of Joy" and "Robert Plant and the Band of Joy".
My goodness, there is so much information here you can almost hear his drums!
haha....
Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones
in Led Zeppelin Master Forum
Posted
There's no consensus, really, on what the intent/meaning was, or if they were ever really called that for the one show in Denmark (2/28/70). I can see where it may have been thinly-veiled vulgarity, and I can see where it was a tribute to Claude Nobs, whom
they became closer too as the 70s rolled on. All I can say for certain is next concert after that one was in Montreux (3/7/70), which was promoted by Claude Nobs.