SteveAJones
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Corrected, but newspapers shouldn't be trusted for getting names right
Remember Led Zeppelin was billed at the (Gonzaga University) Kennedy Pavilion ad on their first US tour as "Len Zefflin".Robert Plant can generally be trusted to get the spelling and name right for each band he formed. Bottom line is the direct quote made on 7/4/98 of "Obstweedle" from Robert Plant himself to this very specific inquiry is significant substantiation the books and websites using Hobbstweedle are inaccurate. That I have his response on videotape makes the evidence irrefutable.
The 1968 advertisement provided here shows there exists at least one example of
historical documentation to support the direct quote Robert made thirty years later.
The inclusion of that apostrophe (Obs' tweedle) in the advert arguably remains a point of contention insofar as accuracy. The inflection in his voice leads me to believe the
inclusion of the apostrophe is correct, but I am avidly seeking further examples/proof.
Aquamarine - Robert was founding member and singer in Obstweedle. It was very much "his" band. He'd disbanded Robert Plant and his Band of Joy in May 1968 and performed a few club gigs with Alexis Korner before forming this band, his last before joining Led Zeppelin.
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Book writers and webmasters everywhere please note Hobbstweedle is in Lord of the Rings, but Robert Plant altered the spelling for his band in '68:
"Obstweedle" -- direct quote from Robert in response to inquiry, Toronto, July 4 1998
Mothers in Birmingham
June 8 1968
Scan courtesy of dazedjeffy
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True enough, but I believe Jimmy acccompanied her back to New York at the end of her stay. The significance of that trip is it would have been Jimmy's first visit to the USA. I
shall have to dig thru notes to confirm...
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He concentrated on gathering the right material for the pop album, including some unorthodox proactive A&R when in Los Angeles with Jimmy Page
This one passage makes his entire claim dubious to me, for as I understand it Jimmy
accompanied Jackie to New York City, not Los Angeles.
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Also, another artist that JPJ played with at the '75 festival was Maria Muldaur.
For a moment I thought you were probably saying he played on her single 'Midnight At The Oasis' (not during her 1975 Montreux Jazz Festival appearance). It seems he DID
join her and that single was the second song she performed the night of July 20, 1975.
Here's an excellent site for researching everything about the Montreux Jazz Festival:
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"Baby Let's Play House" (from 2001) was aired on Japanese TV a while back. Also, another artist that JPJ played with at the '75 festival was Maria Muldaur.
I hadn't heard of a JPJ set with Maria Muldaur. I know they were staying with Claude
at the time, living as tax exiles. I'll see if I can confirm which night she performed, if
you haven't already.
I'd love to get Jimmy & Robert's 'Baby Let's Play House' from 2001 as I was there. I do
have a perfect audience recording and acquired an audience-shot video from the gig.
July 7 2001
Stravinski Auditorium
Montreux, Switzerland
Total Timing : 00:26:40
Robert Plant (vocal)
Jimmy Page (guitar)
Mike Watts (drums)
Ian Jennings (double bass)
1. Good Rockin` Tonight (02:49)
2. Bucket (02:18)
3. Heart In Your Hand (04:19)
4. Candy Store Rock (03:46)
6. Wolf Moaning At Midnight (04:36)
5. Endless Sleep (03:06)
7. My Baby Left Me (03:02)
8. Baby Let`s Play House (02:44)
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This is the 1000th posting to your mysteries thread. Thank you for all your hard work Mr. Jones!
My thanks to you and all whom have contributed. Collaboration is the key!
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I'm still waiting for that to come out on DVD. I personally thought it was Paolo Nutini who stole the show (and I have adored Steve Winwood for as long as I can remember)
(Kid Rock ought to keep a closer check on his sunglasses)
(And as for Jimmy's knee -
)Claude Nobs has a Montreux Jazz Festival audio/video archive on par with Bill Graham's (Wolfgang's Vault). He may have recorded JPJ's set with Etta James (7/11/75) as well as Count Basie and His Orchestra (7/19/75) which JPJ took Bonzo to see. Robert's gig
in '93 was telecast but the pro-shot Page/Plant (6/29/01) and Tribute to Ahmet Ertegun
remain unreleased.
Have to agree about the knee -- Jimmy was spotted out on the town (in London) with Ross Halfin the same frigging night, though he did cancel his festival appearance with Roy Harper a couple months later as well.
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I just brought up the point because you said "scattered (interred)" as if they were synonymous.
I have to admit it sounds more like a memorial to me as well. But whatever the deal is--it's incredibly touching.
If they were scattered (the article alone is hardly authoritative) I happen to believe
they would have been scattered into the gravesite, thus resulting in an internment.
If the stone is merely a memorial, why leave so much empty space? Why the small
floral display holder over the plot? Again, I believe both mark the burial spot of his
remains, and the stone is designed to include entries for his wife and children when
the time comes. Simply stated, it's a family burial plot, IMHO. I could be wrong, but
if so it's news to me.
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Scattered and interred mean two very different things, however.
As do memorial and gravestone but I wasn't looking to argue semantics here. Now that we are...look at the gravestone. It isn't a public memorial as such, it marks his grave.
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Sorry SAJ, I'm kinda missing your point. What did I miss? I misquoted by forgetting the 'are'?
Didn't mean to do that, it just seems that at least one article supports the scattered and not interred theory.
Hell, all I know is I don't know!
The article says his ashes were scattered there. Miss HD posted the stone is merely a memorial and that he wasn't laid to rest there. She may have been making the point his remains were cremated, which is true, and my point is they were "scattered" (interred) at the site of the headstone.
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Hmmm, that article does say 'ashes scattered' which would support Miss HD's post.
FWIW, this is what the article says:
Almost every day fans of Led Zeppelin make the peaceful journey to the pristeen parish churchyard at Rushock where drummer John Bonham's ashes are scattered.
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Why is Steve Winwood playing another label's song at an Ahmet Ertegun Atlantic tribute? Anyone knows that Georgia On My Mind was recorded by ABC-Paramount Records.
...Atlantic Records purchased Ray Charles recording contract from Swingtime in '52. So Ray was originally on Atlantic Records before moving to ABC-Paramount in '58. He was born in Georgia; his 'Georgia on My Mind' is merely a cover of Hoagy Carmichael's 1930 standard.
This from stevewinwood.com (2006):
At the recent Montreux Jazz Festival, Steve participated in a tribute to Ahmet Ertegun. Steve received a standing ovation after his performances of "Georgia on My Mind" and "Can't Find My Way Home." Steve selected the latter composition, as Blind Faith originally was released on Atco Records (a subsidiary of Atlantic Records) in the USA. Steve also played Hammond Organ alongside George Duke at the finale. Also joining in were Chic & Nile Rodgers, Robert Plant, Stevie Nicks and Kid Rock. It was an improvised jam -- one of those moments where things aren't planned, but turn out very special indeed.
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That's a new one on me. The Joint is a small club on Pico Blvd where Terry Reid does a regular weekly gig on a Monday night. Maybe something changed but I never heard of it being anything to do with the HOB
I'll look into this further. Either an error was made for that entry or something changed.
Thanks!
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That would also be a different house, as the chimney fire was at Jennings Farm which he personally moved out of in 1983.
Yes, indeed!
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Did he ask the firemen if they knew of a good chimney sweeper?
I remember posting eight months ago about the Robert Plant house fire (1978) and I'm still waiting for a worthwhile reply. I could get into the hassles Robert encountered in the early 90s with his local council concerning a window renovation on his historic home but I imagine no one besides myself gives the aforementioned rat's ass about it.
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Looking up the date in Alan Clayson's Yardbirds chronology, that Albert Hall concert was on Friday 23rd September 1966. The Jaywalkers were third on the bill.
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Robert Plant in an interview with Uncut magazine on Terry Reid: "We were good friends because we seemed to be on the same circuit...
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That Reid gig (Buxton) (it was Hobbstweedle not BoJ) according to Melody Maker was on Saturday 13th July 1968.
Yes, that's correct and it was the first night of the tour. Michaelangelo Antonioni attended and decided upon The Yardbirds as the right act for his film 'Blow Up'. Once the tour ended, they were filmed at Elstree Film Studios in Borehamwood (Oct 12-14)
performing 'Stroll On'. They also performed a jam for the production crew once the
filming was completed. A studio session for 'Stroll On' was held at Advision before the
band departed for America the following week.
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The famous Regan circuit in the Midlands...here's more:
The woman who cooked chicken and chips for The Beatles and made sure Noddy Holder stayed off the ale was given a moving send-off as musicians joined family and friends for her funeral.
More than 100 people were at the Plaza, Old Hill, to remember 94-year-old Mary Regan, known as Ma to the bands she employed, after yesterday's funeral at The Oratory, Edgbaston. Mourners were asked to play bingo in her honour.
It was free to all Plaza members and called by Ron Jordan, 79, who was resident bingo caller at the club for more than 20 years.
Grandson Darren Howe, 38, of Brighton, paid tribute to a "formidable but kindly" Irish grandmother, a teacher turned club owner who brought top 60s bands to the Black Country venue.
She also ran three Birmingham clubs, including the Plaza, Handsworth, and the Ritz, Kings Heath, which became known as "the Regan circuit".
Acts on the circuit included The Beatles, Kinks, The Animals, Dusty Springfield, Brenda Lee, The Searchers, The Tremeloes, Gerry and The Pacemakers, Manfred Mann, The Moody Blues, Jerry Lee Lewis and Del Shannon.
Geoff Thompson and John Crutchley, who played in a band called Listen with later Led Zeppelin vocalist Robert Plant at Old Hill, were among those paying respects yesterday.
Cannock-born Geoff, 63, now of Walsall, said: "Doing sometimes three gigs in a night was unique to this area, and they were great times." John, 61, of Aldridge, said: "Robert Plant was DJ here when we came to play and Ma got him in with us when our rhythm guitarist left. You could say that without Ma Regan, Led Zeppelin might not have happened."
Bob Bailey, who used to drive the bands, said of The Beatles: "When they played here, there was nowhere for them to stay so Ma put them up at her home in Woodbourne Road, Edgbaston."
Mrs Regan, who had two children, six grandchildren and nine great-grandchildren, died on March 13.
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Confirmation of the Buxton date (Eye Thank Yew!) does make it an Obstweedle gig, as Robert had disbanded the Band of Joy in May 1968. He gigged at a few Alexis Korner dates before forming Obstweedle.
Please note Robert Plant himself confirmed the correct spelling is Obstweedle (during interview conducted in Toronto on July 4, 1998).
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What I don't get is why Walter Reid was even involved in this... wasn't Terry of legal age by this time?
He was of legal age at the time and (to clarify) had just signed a solo deal with Mickie Most, who shared an office with Peter Grant at 154 Oxford Street. More from Terry:
The story of your involvement with the genesis of Led Zeppelin is a time worn story...
Yeah. I see quite a bit of Robert [Plant] and them. When we were just in England, Jimmy Page showed up at the gig.
Oh did he?
And he sat there and laughed his head off the whole way through. I was cracking jokes the whole time. I can’t necessarily say, you know, “Hey Jimmy!” He was ten rows in front of me, sitting across the table. It was like just a club. And rather than get attention to him, and then everybody bug him, I let him have a night off. It was dark, and nobody really saw him there.
Yeah, he wouldn’t be laughing anymore if you pointed him out to everyone.
Exactly. That wouldn’t be funny, would it? So, he had a good time. He stayed all evening. Afterwards, we were having a good ‘ol time.
That’s good.
So, we started years ago. See, we all came up together, really. I mean Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, the Yardbirds…a long while ago, like in ‘65. In ’65, I toured with him with the Stones - when he was with the Yardbirds. Jeff and Jimmy were both in the group then. So, I’ve known Jimmy for quite a long time, and then when he was putting a group together, we were talking about it, and he was talking to a bunch of different singers. He wanted me to do it. He wanted Steve Marriott to do it. He wanted a bunch of people. The thing was he really wanted to put it together and I came up with the idea of Robert and John Bonham. And hey, I must admittedly say, it worked. Boy, did it work!
Yeah, no kidding.
See, that’s why I keep hearing about it. It’s like “Why the hell did you do that?” And I’m goin’ “I don’t know. It just sounded like a good idea at the time.”
Well, people were forming new groups all the time. Nobody had any way of knowing what would happen later.
I could tell you a couple of other suggestions that didn’t work. At that time, everybody was putting groups together. There were a lot of suggestions that sometimes we’d say “Oh, that would never happen”, and it did. Or we’d say “Oh, that would be incredible.” Blind Faith was the one that always got me. You know, it seemed like the perfect group. Steve [Winwood], Eric [Clapton] and Ginger [baker]. I think it lasted for ten minutes, before they all started arguing. It’s hard enough playing with in a group with Ginger in the first place. So it’s funny, you put groups together thinking it would be a great idea, but it doesn’t necessarily mean so.
Yeah. Well, every time your name is mentioned, it seems like the Zeppelin story goes hand in hand with it.
Like I say, we still see a lot of each other. Me and Jimmy were talking over there about how we should get together and maybe do something. I mean, hey, you never know. Any given time, we could do something. So, who knows?
People usually talk about it as a tale of bad luck or missed opportunity, but I get the impression from reading other interviews with you that you don’t really see it that way.
Oh, no. No, I don’t think bad luck. That’s how people perceive things. It’s like “Well, I would have done it.” But, you know, they didn’t ask you. It’s none of your bloody business. Stay out of it. Not only that, they don’t know what they’d be biting off in the first place. I mean, it was no easy row to hoe, I’ll tell you that.
Well, what were your thoughts when you heard Zeppelin’s first album? Was that something that you could have heard yourself doing, looking back at it?
Well, see that’s the thing. I didn’t look at it that way ‘cause Robert’s a good friend of mine. And I got on with John [bonham, Led Zeppelin’s drummer] real well, as well. And I was just happy for them. It was great ‘cause they were in a band in Birmingham that was knocking around, and suddenly - BAM! - we all know when you’ve got something that’s really going on. It was just as much as a shock to Jim and all of them that it was really happening. John Paul Jones - I’ve known him for years – was with Donovan. He was Donovan’s bass player and he did a lot of other things, but he wasn’t your first heavy rock choice, you know. He’s a very, very good musician. And it’s just amazing how he fit that band like a glove. It was perfect. Everybody just fit together right. I always say if you get a group that really works, don’t try and explain it. Don’t try and figure it out, because it will ruin it.
Just enjoy it.
Yeah, exactly. ‘Cause anybody in the band starts to say, “Well, the reason that we play so well…” uh-oh, here we go (laughs). It’s not gonna be the same thing anymore. You don’t stand and figure it out while it’s happening. Just shut up, and put the hammer down. It’s rock and roll!
What can you tell me about the concept behind the cover of these the ‘Superlungs’ CD? It bears more than a passing resemblance to Led Zeppelin’s first album cover, from the photo and the title font, to the orange photo on the back.
Uh well, that wasn’t my choice. That was EMI. I don’t know. Actually, I never picked up on that. I know what you’re saying. The grey and the orange, yeah yeah.
If you hold them right next to each other, and they’re almost the same. Except you don’t look like a zeppelin. (laughs)
I’m not on fire, right! I’m not going down in smoke. No, I think that’s just the art department, but actually I didn’t pick up on that.
Well, I think it’s a clever nod to the story most often told about you.
Yeah, it’s a sort of innuendo…yeah, that’s pretty cool, actually.
So, you’re comfortable with that?
Oh yeah. I’m comfortable with everything. I mean, you can’t design press, you know.
Well, what was funny was when I picked it up at Tower Records, I’m holding it and I’m looking at it as I popped it into the CD player, and I’m thinking to myself “Damn, this looks so familiar. Where have I seen it before?”
Yeah, it never dawned on me. EMI America did that album cover. The one in England, me and Tim Chatsfield were very involved in. He would say “Do you like this picture? Do you like that?” And in the end, I said “Look Tim, you take the ball. Whatever you want to put out. I like all of what you do, and then quite frankly, I’m very flattered that you are gonna do this retrospect thing. Hey, I like this, this and this - you pick the ones. Leave me out of it. It will all work for me.” And he said “You know, I just wanted to run it by you.” If it was a new album, that’d be a different deal. I mean, you want to have control of what you are putting out new. But on re-releases and things like that, you have to let the company feel involved in the thing. Because it’s their piece of merchandise, and you have to let them go with it. Because it’s the past, it’s not like representing me, necessarily. It’s all good.
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Very interesting... do you know if the offer was made to Winwood? I've seen the name mentioned before but don't know how seriously he was considered.
So far as I know Jimmy never approached Winwood, who, like Reid, was steadily building
his own career. I tell you what though, I saw Winwood perform at the Ahmet Ertegun Tribute in Montreux, Switzerland back in 2006 and IMHO he flat out stole the show. He
did a rendition of 'Georgia On My Mind' that would've made Ray Charles weep. Robert
Plant also performed that night. Jimmy was to have joined Robert but cancelled the day
prior on account of medical concerns with his knee.
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The headstone is a memorial. John wasn't laid to rest there.
Says who? His cremated remains were interred there. Has everyone failed to notice
his headstone leaves room enough for his wife and two children (one on each side) when the time comes. May his loved ones live to well over a hundred.
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Thanks, so I guess a threat was highly unlikely... I was just wondering if Jimmy actually tried to talk with Keith or just gave up, just like he gave up on Steve Marriott, but I guess we'll never know... (Ironically in Steve's case there were also rumors of threats... Most likely though Jimmy's offer just wouldn't stand a chance - a yet-to-be-formed band vs Small Faces who had a #1 album in 1968? A no-brainer at the time.)
Jimmy would have no reason to call Keith for Terry Reid's manager was Peter Grant. If any calls were to have been made getting Terry released from his commitment Peter Grant would have been the one to do so because that was his function. Allen Klein was
managing the Stones at the time and Mick Jagger, not Keith, was emerging as their new leader as Brian Jones, the band's founding member, faded and was ultimately kicked out of his own band by the others before that 1969 North American tour began.
I wouldn't say Jimmy "gave up", I would say he explored the possiblity and was smart
enough to realize quite quickly Terry wasn't interested. Remember, the Scandanavian tour contracts were already signed and set for September so Jimmy didn't have time
to waste looking for talent to complete the new lineup. Undoubtedly, this is the reason
why he immediately took up Terry's recommendation to go see Robert Plant perform.
He, Chris Dreja & Peter Grant went to see Plant perform on July 20, 1968. Essentially,
within two weeks Robert was in the band and encouraging his mate John Bonham to
join as well. A series of telegrams from Peter Grant followed.
Steve Marriott was not considered for Led Zeppelin in '68, he was considered back in '66 and ultimately became a benchmark for what Jimmy was looking for two years later. The
Marriott connection stems from the Page/Entwhistle/Moon lineup on Jeff Beck's 'Truth' album and the initial discussions they had about forming a new band together.
Jimmy was asked if that band was going to be Led Zeppelin and this is what he said: "It was, yeah. Not Led Zeppelin as a name; the name came afterwards. But it was said afterwards that that's what it could have been called. Because Moony (Who drummer Keith Moon) wanted get out of the Who and so did John Entwhistle (Who bassist), but when it came down to getting a hold of a singer, it was either going to be Steve Winwood [guitarist/organist/singer with English pop group Traffic] or Steve Marriott [guitarist/vocalist with Small Faces] . Finally it came down to Marriott. He was contacted, and the reply came back from his manager's office: "How would you like to have a group with no fingers, boys?" Or words to that effect. So the group was dropped because of Marriott's commitment to Small Faces. But I think it would have been the first of all those bands sort of like the Cream and everything. Instead, it didn't happen -- apart from the "Bolero." That's the closest it got. John Paul [Jones] is on that too; so is Nicky Hopkins [studio keyboard player with various British rock groups]."
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Whatever happened regarding the dispute with Wolfgang's Vault and the live material, formerly "owned" by Bill Graham?
An extract of Led Zeppelin's April 27th 1969 Fillmore West is available from them here:
http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/dt/led-...t/764-4017.html
Hopefully, additional material will be licensed.
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Steve, I really hope you can help with this one which indeed is a mystery to me. This concerns the Jimmy Page - Terry Reid - Keith Richards "triangle." Apparently Terry was actually interested in Jimmy's offer but there was at least one little problem: he had two US tours booked, one of them with the Stones.... so he told Jimmy You better call Keith because he's not going to be happy...
The question is - did Jimmy call? I saw the following comment on YouTube by supermanoliver: "...supposedly jimmy page asked keith richards if they could work something out and keith then threatened page or some crazy shit like that." Is that just a rumor?
While it's true Terry Reid was already committed to performing as the opening act for The Rolling Stones 1969 North American Tour at the time Jimmy approached him about
joining Led Zeppelin, his refusal to do so undoubtedly had more to do with Terry's own career aspirations as a solo artist than any perceived difficulities with Keith Richard. Securing the opening act slot for that tour was a significant oportunity for Terry to establish himself, and it's also worth noting he was a guitarist as well as a vocalist.
Terry and Robert Plant go back to '67, when Robert Plant and his Band of Joy, Terry Reid and Tim Rose performed on the same bill…they found at the time they both got
on very well socially.
In '68 Robert Plant and The Band of Joy were billed below him in Buxton. Terry watched their set and actually called Jimmy the following day. Coincidentally, The Band of Joy broke up soonafter, and a penniless Plant encountered Reid on Oxford Street in London whilst in town trying to get money from his manager. Reid invited Robert to join him for the journey back to Terry's place in Cambridge, where he informed him of the opportunity to work with Page.
Jimmy Page and Peter Grant (who was also managing Terry Reid at the time) crossed paths with Terry on Oxford Street (in July '68) and he readily suggested Robert Plant for Jimmy's new band.
Having secured the vocalist position in Led Zeppelin, Robert joined Terry for 30 minutes of singing during his gig at Mother's in Birmingham in 1969 and once more in the post-Zep era for a set of old blues standards at The Joint in Beverly Hills on Oct 20 2003.
Jimmy and Keith were undoubtedly familiar with one another having toured the UK together (The Rolling Stones / The Yardbirds / Ike & Tina Turner / Peter Jay and The Jay Walkers) from Sep/Oct '66, to say nothing of Page's session era. I doubt very much Keith would have been overly concerned about the intentions of an opening act (Terry Reid), and
the fact he, the Stones and Jimmy socialized throughout the '70s, '80s & '90s strongly
suggests there was no bad blood between them.
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Thanks. BTW, how tall was Bonzo?
I'd say about 5' 11". Others say closer to 6' 0".
Remember Led Zeppelin was billed at the (Gonzaga University) Kennedy Pavilion ad on their first US tour as "Len Zefflin".
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wasn't Terry of legal age by this time?
Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones
in Led Zeppelin Master Forum
Posted
I'm using only ones and zeros here. The rest is magic.