Actually, I believe his black dragon suit from Earl's Court is in the Hard Rock somewhere, or the R&R Hall of fame already. I might be mistaken.

I can't begin to understand this assertion. More virtuostic? Was Liszt more "virtuostic" than Beethoven because he wrote blindingly fast and near-impossible-to-play pieces? It's about what moves the human soul and how it does so. It's like saying someone's a greater author because he uses big words. Sometimes the depth is in the simplicity. The subtlety. The nuance. It's not all about the licks. Tofu may have more complex proteins, but I'll take a steak. Don't get me wrong. I love Eddie. Always have been a huge fan. But he takes me to a different place. Like a wet t-shirt contest with a dozen kegs. Jimmy takes me to Albion, Kashmir, further. It's just so much broader in scope and scape.

I must agree, particularly with Secrets, that those are evidence of Eddie's "tender" side, and I admire you for leaning toward them as examples, as opposed to the in your face stuff. You're wiser than your years Ali! But I still stand by my opinion (afterall it's just an opinion) that they don't touch Jimmy's masterpieces!

Thanks Ally! And let's face it, Eddie never wrote anything like The Rain Song or TSRTS! True epic masterpieces that could only have come from Jimmy. He's one in a billion! Yeah, Beautiful Girls rocks, but it's no Achilles' Last Stand! Eruption is amazing, but it doesn't conjure the incubus like Jimmy's bow solo!

Jimmy has literally hundreds of guitars. He could autograph and auction dozens and easily raise as much cash for charity if he was so inclined. No need to hawk his mistress!

Apples and oranges. Yes, Eddie was a true innovator. But Jimmy's writing embraced so many styles. Not strictly his soloing, mind you, but his total craft. His writing, playing, production. There's a reason Zep is arguably the biggest band of all time. Besides, Eddie was from a different generation of guitarists, and Zeppelin suckled that generation. You can't go from Cream to Van Halen without Zeppelin, regardless of whether Eddie gives all his props to Eric Clapton. Van Halen was dynamic and hard rocking, but Zeppelin was vast in scope. And to expand on what someone said earlier, it's not about speed. There are lots of guys who could play circles around Eddie. Take Marty Freidman and those guys. And Yngwie. The problem is that their music only appeals to a select audience. It's music for guitar players. I think overall appeal must be considered a factor. Look at George Harrison! One of the most vastly underrated musicians ever. Not because he was a shredder, obviously. But his playing could go straight to your soul. Duane Allman, Warren Haynes, Jerry Garcia. Those guys could break your heart with a single note. That's rare. Jimmy makes that lsit. Eddie...well yes, he can be exciting, but heartwrenching? Not that I've ever heard.

Love Zappa! Sadly, there's a limit on the size of avatars on this new forum, otherwise I'd be downing the eternal pint, lol! I see you have 29 Palms and Semper Fi in your sig. Is your man deployed? God bless 'em!

"Presume"? I've already explained "Zoso" and Thelema and Crowley, it's purpose and use in ritual magick, et al. Why roll right over all that? It's a conversation, right? Excuse me if I find it rude to just ignore what others have already brought to the table. So you "know". Fabulous. So do I. I'm well impressed with your ability to say.....nothing about it at all. Thanks for sharing...uh...nothing. By the way. Hat boy? Hey boob girl, it's "you're" not "your". Sorry, but you left that door wide open. Please feel free to disregard me now. Have a nice day.

Thanks for the clarification. Your contribution and complete disregard for all that's been said above is duly noted. God, why do I bother? BTW, thanks for making my point so crystal clear.

Not in all the years I've been on the Zeppelin boards! Some people would rather it remain a mystery it seems, and I can appreciate that, I suppose. It would be nice however if they at least acknowledged that the question was answered instead of rolling right over one's posts as if they never happened. Otherwise why post at all? I'm 41 years old, and while I have no delusions of grandeur, I do know my Zeppelin. It gets depressing to be ignored (not meaning you of course).

Guess you missed my post. It's not a word, it's a sigil. They aren't letters. The "Z" is a modified Capricorn symbol...look, just go back a few posts and read what I wrote. Not only Jimmy can explain. Some of us have studied Thelema and Crowley as well as astrology, runes and the purpose of such sigils. I've been doing so for 25 years. Why can't some people just say "Oh, so that's it!" and be satisfied?

That would probably be best!

OMG!!! That's what my friends and I used to joke when we were your age!!! Great minds, eh Nic? That said, if you listen to Vancouver 1975, Robert says "Oh Georgina, c'mon, lick your pu**y yeah!". Doubt he's asking the son of god to commit that act! Yeah, it varies. It began as Oh my Jesus. Of course it did. Georgina ain't gonna make his dying bed, much less give him a pair of wings. But yes, Robert changed it up. Why? Dunno.

For those of us who've studied Crowley and Thelema for years, because of our beloved Jimmy, it was never a mystery. I've posted this so many times over the years, but people just seem to pass it over again and again and ask the same questions. Maybe it's just too big. To me it's simple. I just don't get it. Here's the answer. Why not take it? I imagine someone will post tomorrow the same question and once again my answer will be swept under the current. At least you read it. That makes it worth my effort!

Holy shit Rover!!! Bravo!

Sorry for the semi-double post. I was looking for where I'd gone into detail about this on the old board. Finally found it.

As regards Jesus wrestling in the desert, that is not the Satan worshipped by Satanists. To a Satanist, Satan is symbolic of all things indulgent, not the actual entity in the Bible. Read The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey. Regarding Crowley and Satan. First one must separate the Christian Satan from Lucifer the Lightbearer from the Babylonian Marduk. Crowley was not a Satanist. That's a misnomer. He took "The Great Beast 666" as his title because that's what his mother called him as a child because he was such a wild little boy. Later he employed it publicly for shock value. To get Crowley you have to go back to pre-biblical Egypt. Crowleyism is more about Isis and Nuit than Jesus or Satan. What is the purpose of Jimmy's symbol? In Thelemic ritual aside from your ceremonial knife and wand, you must design a personal symbol to meditate on. It is to be inscribed on the forehead of your ceremonial head covering. The bottom line is, if you look at Magick through Christian eyes, it all becomes Satan. That's extremely narrow. You can't just lump all occult belief systems into one basket. Some are dark and inherently evil in a morally enlightened world. Thelema (Crowley's system which Page employed and may still) is not dark. It is a path to enlightenment of one's true destiny in harmony with the universe and all other beings through love. "Invoke me under my stars! Love is the law, love under will. Nor let the fools mistake love; for there are love and love. There is the dove, and there is the serpent. Choose ye well! He, my prophet, hath chosen, knowing the law of the fortress, and the great mystery of the House of God." Liber al vel Legis 1:57

Yes, John Bonham was a huge James Brown fan. He was messing with a James Brown groove in the vein of Sex Machine and Mother Popcorn and the band fell in and The Crunge was born. Take a listen to those songs and you'll see how brilliantly Zeppelin pulled it off. As for Hot Dog, well that's Robert. You either get him or you don't. Personally that's been a song my band's been covering for 20 years. A definite fave. If you don't like Hot Dog, you probably won't like Darlene (another of my personal favorites). Some peole just don't want anything to do with Zeppelin's humorous side. But to each his own.

It's not a word, it's a sigil. It's not a "Z". They aren't "O"s. It's neither "S" or "F".

FYI: Religious dogma only applies if your are a believer in said religion. As far as I've seen so far, never has Satan been proven to exist. It's the old debate all over again. Do tribal people go to hell? No. For them there is no Hell. Hell is the creation of the Church (decided at the first ecumenical council of Nicea in 325AD, when the churches united to decide what scripture goes in the Bible and what is kept from the people. The very definition of heresy. The first and darkest post-ascension crime against Jesus' teaching.). Men, Milton and Dante created Hell to control people. Heads up, the middle ages are over. If you want to practice Christianity and be a believer, that is your privelidge. Everybody has a choice. But you can't convince me Satan exists. I've studied comparative theology for decades, and until he pokes me in my behind with his pitchfork personally, I'll stay openminded. No offense. You're talking to someone who literally lived in an Orthodox monastery and seriously planned on becoming a priest monk, shunning all things earthly. I don't need things explained to me. I've lit plenty of candles. Gold, frankinscense and myrrh. They were led by a star.

EXCLUSIVE!! CAPTURED! An actual photograph of an Evster in his natural habitat! And RICKY, please! All this self-loathing will get you nowhere! She's out there buddy! Go find her! I never thought I would, and now look! We even have a cat (such as it is)!

Where was that taken? Seems a cool place!

If I may step in.. Live, Jimmy played the entirety of TSRTS on the 12-string, including the solos. The 6-string neck was tuned to EADADE for the Rain Song. On the HOTH version, it was tuned down a whole step. The logic is that live, for the guitar tech it was much simpler to use the A tuning instead of the G tuning as it only required re-tuning two string instead of the whole six. It also may have had to do with the tuning of the Mellotron, which they couldn't possibly adjust in a live environment.

Note license plate!

Angi and I, taken by our dear Otto Masson on his recent visit to the states from Iceland.