LedZeppelin and Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung

[mrzepbonham]

ok im new and this is my first time posting a new topic and i have Dyslexia and Dysgraphia so i no my spelling will be off, so sory if i spell sumthing way off lol

i was reading the post about ledzeppelin and lord of the rings and i noticed sumthing. i realized that both the lord of the rings and Tolkien's wrighting are both based on Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung, so i started thinking if maby that was what thay were refering two.

i have only seen das rheingold, the first opera, and i have noticed some stuf so if some 1 who is has more knolig of Ring of the Nibelung could tell me if the rest has as much similaritys

[Reggie29]

ok im new and this is my first time posting a new topic and i have Dyslexia and Dysgraphia so i no my spelling will be off, so sory if i spell sumthing way off lol

i was reading the post about ledzeppelin and lord of the rings and i noticed sumthing. i realized that both the lord of the rings and Tolkien's wrighting are both based on Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung, so i started thinking if maby that was what thay were refering two.

i have only seen das rheingold, the first opera, and i have noticed some stuf so if some 1 who is has more knolig of Ring of the Nibelung could tell me if the rest has as much similaritys

This is quite incorrect.

While there are similarities the story was devised in part by Tolkien's experiences during WWI.

LOTR and The Hobbit for that matter, have nothing to do with Wagner's Ring of Niebling whatsoever.

[mrzepbonham]

This is quite incorrect.

While there are similarities the story was devised in part by Tolkien's experiences during WWI.

LOTR and The Hobbit for that matter, have nothing to do with Wagner's whatsoever.

thats arguable thay both were bacicly durived frum the same myths and if you dont think thay are similer then you oveosly dont no Wagner's Ring of Niebling whatsoever, no ofence. Tolkien actuly hated Wagner but was verry fumiler with his work, tharfore he wouldnot admit he was influenced byb Wagners work. the hole ring idea can be found in numoros peaces of litecher that was writon befor Wagner composed the Ring of Niebling but nun of them in the way in witch he interpited it. Tolkins ring was extremly similer two wagners because even thou it gave the person waring it ultomet power it was evul and would eventuly leed two thare downfall wich was what made Wagners ring diffrent frum aney other. anuther big similarity is the way the "class system" was used, it is bacicly an updated verson of the one used in Wagner's Ring of Niebling. in not saying that he completly stold Wagner's opra but i think he defenetly "sampled frum it.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/12/2...crat_atlarge.... reed this

[Reggie29]

thats arguable thay both were bacicly durived frum the same myths and if you dont think thay are similer then you oveosly dont no Wagner's Ring of Niebling whatsoever, no ofence. Tolkien actuly hated Wagner but was verry fumiler with his work, tharfore he wouldnot admit he was influenced byb Wagners work. the hole ring idea can be found in numoros peaces of litecher that was writon befor Wagner composed the Ring of Niebling but nun of them in the way in witch he interpited it. Tolkins ring was extremly similer two wagners because even thou it gave the person waring it ultomet power it was evul and would eventuly leed two thare downfall wich was what made Wagners ring diffrent frum aney other. anuther big similarity is the way the "class system" was used, it is bacicly an updated verson of the one used in Wagner's Ring of Niebling. in not saying that he completly stold Wagner's opra but i think he defenetly "sampled frum it.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/12/2...crat_atlarge.... reed this

I couldn't open the link and just because it's in the New Yorker doesn't make it so.

I know enough about Wagner to know that he borrowed from Norse Mythology as did Tolkien, however Tolkien also drew heavily on ancient British folklore and mythology.

Something Wagner did not.

While there is a similarity that's where it starts and ends.

How many stories throughout history are often inspired by other stories or themes therein?

You could say that Sting was inspired by Excalibur?

We'll never know how or who inspired Wagner or Tolkien because they are both dead.

Have a look at Ringers: Lord Of The Fans DVD for inspirations as told by Tolkien and his son.

What you have suggested is just your opinion and while it's not necessarily fact, you have a right to express it, as does everyone.

I read The Hobbit and LOTR 30 years ago (been listening to Zep for almost 40 years), and went down the "where did the influences come from" and nothing will change my mind.

That's like saying Wagner's Flight of The Valkyrie was the source of inspiration for The Immigrant Song.

Just a tip, I appreciate you may be dyslexic but there is a spell check (ABC / tick) and when in doubt spread it out, no offence.

[mrzepbonham]

I couldn't open the link and just because it's in the New Yorker doesn't make it so.

I know enough about Wagner to know that he borrowed from Norse Mythology as did Tolkien, however Tolkien also drew heavily on ancient British folklore and mythology.

Something Wagner did not.

While there is a similarity that's where it starts and ends.

How many stories throughout history are often inspired by other stories or themes therein?

You could say that Sting was inspired by Excalibur?

We'll never know how or who inspired Wagner or Tolkien because they are both dead.

Have a look at Ringers: Lord Of The Fans DVD for inspirations as told by Tolkien and his son.

What you have suggested is just your opinion and while it's not necessarily fact, you have a right to express it, as does everyone.

I read The Hobbit and LOTR 30 years ago (been listening to Zep for almost 40 years), and went down the "where did the influences come from" and nothing will change my mind.

That's like saying Wagner's Flight of The Valkyrie was the source of inspiration for The Immigrant Song.

Just a tip, I appreciate you may be dyslexic but there is a spell check (ABC / tick) and when in doubt spread it out, no offence.

lol nun takin

im sory if i cam acros as arguing with you i was more dabating the posability lol

and ya i agry that we will never no cuz im a huge Wagner fane, the only musick i like more is zeps lol, but ya iv dun alot of resech on this topic both fore school and fore fun and i just find it so intresting expeshuly because thars really no middle, he eather did or dident, i gess it all depens on witch informaton you decide two lisson two becaus iv found so maney verry reliable resorses that completly contridict each other

p.s. i completly respect your opinyon because even thou i dont agry it dus make sence

[Aquamarine]

It's worth considering that there are many stories about magic rings, rings of power, etc., going back centuries (probably millennia), so neither Wagner nor Tolkien invented the theme.

[mrzepbonham]

It's worth considering that there are many stories about magic rings, rings of power, etc., going back centuries (probably millennia), so neither Wagner nor Tolkien invented the theme.

exacly i love trying to find similaritys in opras and things like books and poms i find it all really intresting

[reswati]

Btw Wagner didn't invent the Nibelungensaga at all, the saga itself is from the 13th century.

[Evster2012]

If this thread is about Wagner and Tolkein, why is it called Led Zeppelin and Wagner? Clearly Led Zeppelin didn't borrow from Wagnerian imagery.

[mrzepbonham]

Btw Wagner didn't invent the Nibelungensaga at all, the saga itself is from the 13th century.

ya but he changed it alot but i gess i cind of have a biest opinyon becaues im a HUGE Wagner fan but ya like what i was saying is that maby Tolkien did the same thing Wagner did.

and wagner openly admited he dident cum up with the bacic idea but he put a farly large spin on it. the bigest difrenc is the powers the ring hade,thare was 2 main rings b4 wagner the ANDVARINAUT, witch was cursed like wagners ring and was abule to produse gold like wagners ring but other then that hade little power, and the other big ring was DRAUPNIR, witch gave whoever wore it endless weth and was created by dwarf and evutaly was used as a gift witch is verry simaler to to wagners ring but it dose not give the person wareing it altimet power. Wagners ring is, at lest two my knolige, the only mythical ring at that time that hade such great power.

[mrzepbonham]

If this thread is about Wagner and Tolkein, why is it called Led Zeppelin and Wagner? Clearly Led Zeppelin didn't borrow from Wagnerian imagery.

ya i worded that bad, what happend was i was reading a thred about all the simalaritys with zep songs and Tolkein, and i started thinking about how simmiler wagners ring of the nibelung and tolkins lord of the rings is (i should have worded that better)

[reswati]

Here are Tolkiens own words about it:

When the Swedish translation of

The Lord of the Rings

appeared in 1961, its author was appalled. Fluent in

Swedish, J.R.R. Tolkien found no problems with the translation. Indeed, Tolkien often considered the

various Scandinavian languages as better mediums for his Middle-earth stories than English, as the medieval

Norse and Icelandic myths had strongly influenced them. His disgust, instead, came from the presumption

found within the introduction to the Swedish edition. The crime: translator Åke Ohlmark had compared

Tolkien's ring to Wagner's ring. "The Ring is in a certain way 'der Niebelungen Ring,'" Ohlmark had written.

Indignant, Tolkien complained to his publisher: "Both rings were round, and there the resemblance ceases."

The translator's commentary was simply "rubbish," according to Tolkien

[mrzepbonham]

Here are Tolkiens own words about it:

When the Swedish translation of

The Lord of the Rings

appeared in 1961, its author was appalled. Fluent in

Swedish, J.R.R. Tolkien found no problems with the translation. Indeed, Tolkien often considered the

various Scandinavian languages as better mediums for his Middle-earth stories than English, as the medieval

Norse and Icelandic myths had strongly influenced them. His disgust, instead, came from the presumption

found within the introduction to the Swedish edition. The crime: translator Åke Ohlmark had compared

Tolkien's ring to Wagner's ring. "The Ring is in a certain way 'der Niebelungen Ring,'" Ohlmark had written.

Indignant, Tolkien complained to his publisher: "Both rings were round, and there the resemblance ceases."

The translator's commentary was simply "rubbish," according to Tolkien

ya i iv red sooo maney articuls about this,im pritty shour iv seen the u r refrincing lol, Tolkien hated Wagner fore personal resons, so oveosly hes not guna say he ws insperd by him.... im im not saying that he defently was im just putting the idea out thare, its sumthing 2 think about(expeshuly if you are a music nerd like me)lol

[Aquamarine]

Remember when Tolkien wrote this, too--in the wake of WWII, Wagner (Hitler's favorite composer) wasn't loved too much by a lot of people!