groovtubin Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Hi all New here, and LOVE that TONE used on tea for one, anyone know the absolute truth on what amp was used? To my ears itsa vox, lile do i know! Thanks for someone steering me right! jim ex builder DiazAmplification Electric Ap Current@ Omegaamps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 trying to get that sound from a guitar and an amp is a no can do. It's complicated. the info I have on Tea For One is as follows basic structure of song: Stage 1 Stage 2 Stage 3 Les Paul #1 ===> tape deck(no tape- used only for tube pre to warm signal) ===> Uri1176 ===> to recording deck ====> track assign Stage 4 Stage 5 Stage 6 (miking amp and room) send assign to room ===> Richenbacher Transonic amp ===>mic1 (close) mic2 (far) mic3 (mean distance suspended high above at 60deg. angle face opposite amp) Stage 7 Stage 8 mics to recording deck ===> (4 tracks blend to 1 sound- not static, changes throughout track) Solo and Overdubs: Les Paul #1 Hiwatt Amp Marshall Amps(2) similar to above: direct to recording deck + send to room and return to deck = blend to taste Page ran a typical amp rig near him (mic'd to deck) placing a second amp at a distance away in the room and mic'd the room with that room mic feed directly into the amp at a distance. The trick was keeping the signal hot enough to matter and not so hot that it only approached the edge of feedback. Another example of this technique- probably the most notable one- is the solo on Live In Peace. The giveaway is the edge of feedback sound. Only one way to get it and that is two rigs set at a distance one mic'd up to catch the sound of the room. What it does: mic1 provides the in your face studio sound and mic2 captures the dynamics of what is being played and adds color of harmonics and the halo of the sound eager to feedback. During and after mixing very little EQ was done. Compressors, a spring reverb and a plate reverb were used. Pretty much did this the entire album. You can also hear this clearly on the first album How Many More Times when the signal is direct to the board (no amp- push the levels to sweetly distort) then send that signal to drive a leslie cabinet (no horns rotating on the leslie). Nice work it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hecube Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Wow! What's your source? I don't doubt you for one second because I have enough amps at home to see how that tone can be achieved with the signal chain you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhead Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 ^^^^yeah DK, where'd you get this info and is there more you have about other tunes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecongo Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 how the F did you and where the F did you get that info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 groovtubin asked, I provided the answer as best I understand it. The main thing about the tone and the sound is that it is musician dependent not gear dependent. Volume and tone settings on the guitar and attack by the player is the weight and carry of the sound, gear and kit is accessory only. The dress and get up doesn't make the way a woman carries herself and radiates her personality. That's why Page doesn't tart up his rig with crap. His sound is him basically. Page made every effort to capture it and get it out on vinyl in a way that expressed the point of what was being played. If you get a chance, listen to the guitar work(solo especially) on I'm Gonna Crawl. Remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 What sources did you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groovtubin Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 trying to get that sound from a guitar and an amp is a no can do. It's complicated. the info I have on Tea For One is as follows basic structure of song: Stage 1 Stage 2 Stage 3 Les Paul #1 ===> tape deck(no tape- used only for tube pre to warm signal) ===> Uri1176 ===> to recording deck ====> track assign Stage 4 Stage 5 Stage 6 (miking amp and room) send assign to room ===> Richenbacher Transonic amp ===>mic1 (close) mic2 (far) mic3 (mean distance suspended high above at 60deg. angle face opposite amp) Stage 7 Stage 8 mics to recording deck ===> (4 tracks blend to 1 sound- not static, changes throughout track) Solo and Overdubs: Les Paul #1 Hiwatt Amp Marshall Amps(2) similar to above: direct to recording deck + send to room and return to deck = blend to taste Page ran a typical amp rig near him (mic'd to deck) placing a second amp at a distance away in the room and mic'd the room with that room mic feed directly into the amp at a distance. The trick was keeping the signal hot enough to matter and not so hot that it only approached the edge of feedback. Another example of this technique- probably the most notable one- is the solo on Live In Peace. The giveaway is the edge of feedback sound. Only one way to get it and that is two rigs set at a distance one mic'd up to catch the sound of the room. What it does: mic1 provides the in your face studio sound and mic2 captures the dynamics of what is being played and adds color of harmonics and the halo of the sound eager to feedback. During and after mixing very little EQ was done. Compressors, a spring reverb and a plate reverb were used. Pretty much did this the entire album. You can also hear this clearly on the first album How Many More Times when the signal is direct to the board (no amp- push the levels to sweetly distort) then send that signal to drive a leslie cabinet (no horns rotating on the leslie). Nice work it is. Thank you! Being around the Cesar camp ( one of his close friends only) , i knew that SRV miced ALOT of different amps,to get a sound.. i appreciate your indepth description, i mod/build amps for a living, and listening closely, i really wanted to BLV it was a supro/vox, but the notes are HUGE, w/ALOT of headroom, i tweak amps ALL day, maybe my ears are tired! lol! ALL i know is i LOVE that tune, when i was in HS ( 74-77) album Prescence really captivated my heart ta play guitar, and after seeing them in Greensboro NC in 76/or 77 i was hooked!! respectfully, jim@Omegaamps.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 you are welcome groovtubin SRV's engineers also used to playback a recorded track to an amp in an isolated room and mic that then re-record it. They also used wads of duct tape in front of the cone to keep it from getting ice picky sounding in the room. Several other bands have used the technique. If it is to be believed, the re-recording technique began in Germany in the '50s to make orchestral performances sound bigger since the recording process drains the life and size out of things. I will check out some of your gear. One of my hobbies is restoring vintage amps. I also have a schematic for a custom cabinet I need made. Thank you! Being around the Cesar camp ( one of his close friends only) , i knew that SRV miced ALOT of different amps,to get a sound.. i appreciate your indepth description, i mod/build amps for a living, and listening closely, i really wanted to BLV it was a supro/vox, but the notes are HUGE, w/ALOT of headroom, i tweak amps ALL day, maybe my ears are tired! lol! ALL i know is i LOVE that tune, when i was in HS ( 74-77) album Prescence really captivated my heart ta play guitar, and after seeing them in Greensboro NC in 76/or 77 i was hooked!! respectfully, jim@Omegaamps.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayougal65 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 groovtubin asked, I provided the answer as best I understand it. The main thing about the tone and the sound is that it is musician dependent not gear dependent. Volume and tone settings on the guitar and attack by the player is the weight and carry of the sound, gear and kit is accessory only. The dress and get up doesn't make the way a woman carries herself and radiates her personality. That's why Page doesn't tart up his rig with crap. His sound is him basically. Page made every effort to capture it and get it out on vinyl in a way that expressed the point of what was being played. If you get a chance, listen to the guitar work(solo especially) on I'm Gonna Crawl. Remarkable. Great thread! Tea for One is one of the bluest songs ever written. The lyrics paint such a stark picture of waiting, but it is Jimmy's shredding and shrilled nerved playing that evokes the sad tedium of waiting alone on someone who will never arrive! Awesome posts both, Dallas! I always lurk around the Les Paul- Jimmy page and the history of his guitars forum. I just read because I have very limited technical knowledge of guitars, amps, mixing etc. I do know that certain guitarists move me and others leave me cold. I always smile when I read posts saying that "they just can't GET Jimmy's tone." As you eloquently stated, i agree....a guitarist's sound is as individual as a fingerprint, it is his touch, feel, and soul that makes his own unique sound.. And I suppose absolute genius is born when a master player is also a master technician and knows what to do with that sound. Fascinating stuff to this mere mortal. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 groovtubin asked, I provided the answer as best I understand it. The main thing about the tone and the sound is that it is musician dependent not gear dependent. Volume and tone settings on the guitar and attack by the player is the weight and carry of the sound, gear and kit is accessory only. The dress and get up doesn't make the way a woman carries herself and radiates her personality. That's why Page doesn't tart up his rig with crap. His sound is him basically. Page made every effort to capture it and get it out on vinyl in a way that expressed the point of what was being played. If you get a chance, listen to the guitar work(solo especially) on I'm Gonna Crawl. Remarkable. wise words !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Here's for not tarting up your rig: a Les Paul, a wahwah, a tape delay (the switch is visible) probably a Marshall with pushed endtubes and 16 25w speakers :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MINI_Zoso Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Thanks DK! What I read from that is...I might be able to get close/similar sound but I'm still going to be a long way away. I'm working with a Les Paul studio (Joe Bonamassa sig.) through a Marshall SS head (MG100HDFX) and 1960 Lead cabinet. I do have a multi effects pedal, Boss ME20, but that is usually plugged into my Ampeg ReverbaRocket. I've not tried it on the Marshall. You clearly have a grasp on this stuff, one that someday I hope to posses a fraction of! Any chance you could steer me in a direction that would get me close? Oh ya, just to acknowledge what you already said, I do get that so much of the tone comes from the player not just the equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 you are very kind... I will be glad to help anyway I can if I can. I am not an authority or an expert. I have no doubt you can get close to the sound. Keep in mind that Roger Meyer, before he builds a custom unit for a guitarist, requires that the guitarist visit him in his shop and play in front of his so Roger can observe the pick strikes, the string pressure, the variations relative to the position of the pickups where the player attacks the strings and so on... all taken into account prior to manufacture. This is how dependent the sound is upon the player. Not the gear. if I have any grasp at all its because I have been a student of music for 45 years and a student of watching people who have "it" for over 30 years. My teen years were spent being a grunt for musicians like JJ Cale and Leon Russell at the Cain's Ballroom in Tulsa. My sister dated a drummer who played for Seager and Clapton and Cale in those days which gave me access to being a fly on the wall and being a sponge to soak up all I could. I never travelled with anyone famous but gigged throughout college and opened for some decent acts in Kansas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Texas which was invaluable as an education. I got to be a studio grunt several summers as well. Looking back, being the beer runner for Leon Russell wasn't such a bad job. The most fun was setting up, tearing down and sitting on the piano bench when they worked on the sound and practiced. I never thought I would play anything other piano and organ until I got to college and figured out that drummers and guitarist get more attention- so that was an easy decision. I help anyone I can, anyway I can so long as it is appreciated and not taken for granted. Contrary to hoarding, my instinct and bent is to contribute and make a difference. When Clapton played through JJ's rig it sounded like Clapton, when JJ played it was like him. Same gear. Only difference was the player. It goes back to what my piano teacher told me when I was 5, "the instrument you are playing is inside you, not the one your hands are on- just let go and play." He was the choirmaster and minister of music at a large church in Tulsa for over 40 years. The first time I heard him play I choked up with a lump in my throat. Beauty is not only beheld by the eye- by the ears and the soul as well. Send me pics of your rig and if you can some mp3 and if I can make any suggestions I will be glad to do so. Maybe with some practice and experience, someday people will be wanting to sound like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MINI_Zoso Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 My apologies to the OP for some hijacking here. Dallas Knebs, thank you sir!! I have a long way to go but your help/advise has moved me a large step closer. I've only used the Ampeg so far, but the sound One other question if I may...tuning, is it tuned a whole step down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Hammer Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 What a great thread! Thanks for the insights ya'll. Playing my '60 custom through a supro amp just before typing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MINI_Zoso Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 What a great thread! Thanks for the insights ya'll. Playing my '60 custom through a supro amp just before typing this. What were you playing? Zep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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