Spurious Album Sales.....

[Pagesbow]

OK, I've already posted a topic today and I don't want to be accused of being some kind of crazy attention seeking serial topic starter - and I know there is a topic regarding Zep's sales - but I was looking at this list again....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists#250_million_or_more_records

And apparently since 2005/2006 respectively Rihanna and Taylor Swift have sold a 100 million records? now, excuse me if I'm wrong here, but there was me thinking that the record industry has been in terminal decline in the last decade, a decade in which artists make the bulk of their money from tours, that the days of artists shifting big numbers are over yet despite these apparently austere times for the record industry, those two artists have the same claimed album sales as Fleetwood Mac, however, while it took Fleetwood Mac the best part of four decades to achieve that total we are to believe that Rihanna and Taylor Swift have got there in eight?

Wiki's source for Rihanna's album sales? The New Zealand Herald...

H: Highest-selling female artist

Okay, she's seventh-highest selling, behind Madonna, the diva threesome of Celine, Mariah and Whitney, and Donna Summer and Barbra Streisand. And yes, she does have the advantage of coming from the age of digital downloads, but with more than 100 million records sold in total in just eight years, this girl knows what it takes to sell music.

Although, I'll take the list as gospel when it states that Zep are the fifth biggest selling artists of all time....way in front of Queen and The Rolling Stones....

[Charles J. White]

Individual artists and bands still have the capability to put out a 5 million or 10 million selling album – the more established bands or artists for the most part have become pussies now that they are comfortably wealthy, it’s human nature. They lose that want to prove that they are number 1 and do so in the comfort of complaining that no one buys music anymore – chicken shits!

Over the last 15 years Nickelback, Coldplay, AC/DC, Taylor Swift, and Rhianna have proven that people still buy music and buy plenty of it!

[Pagesbow]

Individual artists and bands still have the capability to put out a 5 million or 10 million selling album – the more established bands or artists for the most part have become pussies now that they are comfortably wealthy, it’s human nature. They lose that want to prove that they are number 1 and do so in the comfort of complaining that no one buys music anymore – chicken shits!

Over the last 15 years Nickelback, Coldplay, AC/DC, Taylor Swift, and Rhianna have proven that people still buy music and buy plenty of it!

oh ya, in the last 15 there have still been the occasional big sellers. - especially the late 90's early 00's I just don't buy that Taylor Swift/Rihanna has shifted 100 million records/downloads....whatever, in 7 years? those are massive figures...

[Janvier]

This is probably a very silly argument, but I'm going to write it anyway.

It's possible for newer artists to outsell older artists for many reasons, one of them being population growth. In the 2000-2010 there's a larger population than in 1970-1980, proportionally, more people have access to CD players (turntables in the past) and there's a larger share of the population that has extra income for the purchase of CDs.

There's a larger market than there was in the past, thus the millions of records sold. Just a very simple trivial observation, nothing scientific behind this, which means I could be wrong.

I'm currently transferring to iTunes the album Supernatural, by Santana. I noticed in the back cover a note that says 25 million copies of this album have been sold over the years. In the wikipedia link that you posted, Santana is credited with album sales in the neighbourhood of 80 to 99 million records during his career, this would mean that a single album represents a quarter of all Santana's sales which is pretty remarkable giving the prolific output of the artist over the decades he's been active in the music business.

[Disco Duck]

Could it be an album vs. singles issue? "Classic rock" groups like Led Zeppelin, Queen and Fleetwood Mac were album oriented. Their albums were coherent collections of songs that represented where each band was musically at that given point in time. For the most part, rock music fans of that era played along and purchased entire albums in order to own a copy of the 1 or 2 songs they really liked. Nowadays, fans don't have to purchase an entire album; they can just download their favorite songs. If Rihanna releases an album and 2 of the songs are hits then that's 2 units fans have purchased instead of 1.

[backinthezeppelin]

Could it be an album vs. singles issue? "Classic rock" groups like Led Zeppelin, Queen and Fleetwood Mac were album oriented. Their albums were coherent collections of songs that represented where each band was musically at that given point in time. For the most part, rock music fans of that era played along and purchased entire albums in order to own a copy of the 1 or 2 songs they really liked. Nowadays, fans don't have to purchase an entire album; they can just download their favorite songs. If Rihanna releases an album and 2 of the songs are hits then that's 2 units fans have purchased instead of 1.

As a completest, I don't understand why anyone wouldn't just get the whole album for the sake of having it.

[Disco Duck]

As a completest, I don't understand why anyone wouldn't just get the whole album for the sake of having it.

Neither do I, but then I grew up and came of age during the Classic Rock era. I would have missed out on a lot of great songs that never made it onto Top 40 radio, if i hadn't purchased albums.

[Pagesbow]

Could it be an album vs. singles issue? "Classic rock" groups like Led Zeppelin, Queen and Fleetwood Mac were album oriented. Their albums were coherent collections of songs that represented where each band was musically at that given point in time. For the most part, rock music fans of that era played along and purchased entire albums in order to own a copy of the 1 or 2 songs they really liked. Nowadays, fans don't have to purchase an entire album; they can just download their favorite songs. If Rihanna releases an album and 2 of the songs are hits then that's 2 units fans have purchased instead of 1.

Hmm, I would have said Zep, Floyd and Mac were album orientated - I always think of Queen as mainly a singles band. But that's just me..

Could it be an album vs. singles issue?

Could be, yeah.

It's seems more complicated to really ascertain true sales figures these days. The wiki list isn't very useful. (unless I missed something) it doesn't specify what the sales are for; I presume it's for albums as the Beatles and Elvis overall have (supposedly) sold over a billion records in total, yet on the list it's around 600 million a piece.

[Pagesbow]

This is probably a very silly argument, but I'm going to write it anyway.

It's possible for newer artists to outsell older artists for many reasons, one of them being population growth. In the 2000-2010 there's a larger population than in 1970-1980, proportionally, more people have access to CD players (turntables in the past) and there's a larger share of the population that has extra income for the purchase of CDs.

There's a larger market than there was in the past, thus the millions of records sold. Just a very simple trivial observation, nothing scientific behind this, which means I could be wrong.

I'm currently transferring to iTunes the album Supernatural, by Santana. I noticed in the back cover a note that says 25 million copies of this album have been sold over the years. In the wikipedia link that you posted, Santana is credited with album sales in the neighbourhood of 80 to 99 million records during his career, this would mean that a single album represents a quarter of all Santana's sales which is pretty remarkable giving the prolific output of the artist over the decades he's been active in the music business.

I hear you on the population thing. As for extra income, it depends where it's being spent as this article highlights

http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/12/black-ops-ii-and-fifa-13-outsold-music-and-dvds-in-2012-3538417/

It's funny how a lot of people hear music first via games, many times I'll be watching a TY video and in the comments it's "Thumbs up if you heard this first on *insert game*"

Interestingly, here are the most downloaded songs in the U.K of all time:

1. Adele - Someone Like You

2. Maroon 5 ft Christina Aguilera - Moves Like Jagger

3. Gotye ft Kimbra - Somebody I Used To Know

4. Black Eyed Peas - I Gotta Feeling

5. Rihanna ft Calvin Harris - We Found Love

6. Kings Of Leon - Sex On Fire

7. Carly Rae Jepsen - Call Me Maybe

8. LMFAO - Party Rock Anthem

9. Bruno Mars - Just The Way You Are (Amazing)

10. Jessie J - Price Tag

Make of that.....what you will

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/22081325

[greenman]

Could it be an album vs. singles issue? "Classic rock" groups like Led Zeppelin, Queen and Fleetwood Mac were album oriented. Their albums were coherent collections of songs that represented where each band was musically at that given point in time. For the most part, rock music fans of that era played along and purchased entire albums in order to own a copy of the 1 or 2 songs they really liked. Nowadays, fans don't have to purchase an entire album; they can just download their favorite songs. If Rihanna releases an album and 2 of the songs are hits then that's 2 units fans have purchased instead of 1.

I'm guessing this is probabley a large part of it, notice none of the quoted sources mention "album sales".

One other factor is I'd say likely to be that today sales outside of the US and western Europe are much easier to track, a lot of the figures we see quoted from the 60's and the 70's especially just seem to be US or US and UK album sales.

[Knebby]

Hmm, I would have said Zep, Floyd and Mac were album orientated - I always think of Queen as mainly a singles band. But that's just me..

Definitely just you yeah! Absolutely an albums band too.

[Pagesbow]

Definitely just you yeah! Absolutely an albums band too.

Queen, Blondie and ABBA - singles bands

[greenman]

Queen, Blondie and ABBA - singles bands

Though really even if you consider them to be singles bands a lot of both Queen and Abba's total sales are of greatest hits albums which could as one(or two if its a double) sales rather than lots of individual downloads.

[Pagesbow]

Though really even if you consider them to be singles bands a lot of both Queen and Abba's total sales are of greatest hits albums which could as one(or two if its a double) sales rather than lots of individual downloads.

Well yeah, is Zep's biggest seller Remasters or Mothership? no. Is Echoes: The best of Pink Floyd thier biggest? no. and so on. With Queen most of the general population want the hits that they hear ad nauseum chanted at every sporting event and in many T.V adverts...

This is reflected in the fact that their Greatest Hits 1 is their biggest seller...

[Knebby]

That absolutely doesn't make them a singles band.ALL of their albums are massive sellers in the UK and the early ones like A Night At The Opera and A Day At The Races were thought-out as complete pieces. They were less popular in the US, I acknowledge that, but the world of music doesn't begin and end there.

[Janvier]

I hear you on the population thing. As for extra income, it depends where it's being spent as this article highlights

http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/12/black-ops-ii-and-fifa-13-outsold-music-and-dvds-in-2012-3538417/

Which raises an interesting point, or so I believe, is the quantity of money spent today on CDs and DVDs, larger than it was in the past? Even if it's dwindling with respect to video games, is it still a larger portion of dollars than it was in the 1970s after adjusting for inflation?

Interestingly, here are the most downloaded songs in the U.K of all time:

1. Adele - Someone Like You

2. Maroon 5 ft Christina Aguilera - Moves Like Jagger

3. Gotye ft Kimbra - Somebody I Used To Know

4. Black Eyed Peas - I Gotta Feeling

5. Rihanna ft Calvin Harris - We Found Love

6. Kings Of Leon - Sex On Fire

7. Carly Rae Jepsen - Call Me Maybe

8. LMFAO - Party Rock Anthem

9. Bruno Mars - Just The Way You Are (Amazing)

10. Jessie J - Price Tag

Make of that.....what you will

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/22081325

This is interesting as well. In some of the wikipedia links you provided there was a statistic according to which half of the U.K. population, in 1997, could as well own a Spice Girls album, given the volume of CD sales. So in 1997 there were no music downloads, but if there had been, could the Spice Girls appear higher than some of the artists in this singles list?

[Anjin-san]

What is amusing is that the The Beatles,Elvis and Zep and the rest, out sell these 'people' every year,....!

[Pagesbow]

What is amusing is that the The Beatles,Elvis and Zep and the rest, out sell these 'people' every year,....!

Although, Zep never really had a big seller in the U.K they don't even appear in the top 40 of this (rather awful) list. Featuring: Dido, The Corrs, Michael Buble, Spice Girls, Scissor Sisters... How many people still play those albums and how many are currently in the bargain bins/on ebay for 99p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_in_the_United_Kingdom

[Pagesbow]

Which raises an interesting point, or so I believe, is the quantity of money spent today on CDs and DVDs, larger than it was in the past? Even if it's dwindling with respect to video games, is it still a larger portion of dollars than it was in the 1970s after adjusting for inflation?

This is interesting as well. In some of the wikipedia links you provided there was a statistic according to which half of the U.K. population, in 1997, could as well own a Spice Girls album, given the volume of CD sales. So in 1997 there were no music downloads, but if there had been, could the Spice Girls appear higher than some of the artists in this singles list?

Which raises an interesting point, or so I believe, is the quantity of money spent today on CDs and DVDs, larger than it was in the past? Even if it's dwindling with respect to video games, is it still a larger portion of dollars than it was in the 1970s after adjusting for inflation?

You'd have to ask an economist; I'm a little out of my depth with that stuff...

This is interesting as well. In some of the wikipedia links you provided there was a statistic according to which half of the U.K. population, in 1997, could as well own a Spice Girls album, given the volume of CD sales. So in 1997 there were no music downloads, but if there had been, could the Spice Girls appear higher than some of the artists in this singles list?

The Spice Girls have the 27th bigest album in the U.K according to this list....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_in_the_United_Kingdom

To be honest, I wouldn't put much validity in the wiki lists as they aren't even consistent:

On this list, Elton John has sold 350 million, Queen 300 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biggest_selling_British_acts_of_all_time

Then on this one, 250 million and 200 million respectively.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists#250_million_or_more_records

[Knebby]

Who actually cares Del?

[Janvier]

To be honest, I wouldn't put much validity in the wiki lists as they aren't even consistent:

completely agree!

[Pagesbow]

That absolutely doesn't make them a singles band.ALL of their albums are massive sellers in the UK and the early ones like A Night At The Opera and A Day At The Races were thought-out as complete pieces. They were less popular in the US, I acknowledge that, but the world of music doesn't begin and end there.

I'm not really talking about the U.S; my point is that Queen have the biggest selling album in the U.K which is Greatest Hits 1 and Greatest Hits 2 is the 10th. The only other two artists with greatest hits packages in the top 40 are ABBA and Madonna, now, while I wouldn't suggest that Queen are a singles act in the same way those to are, I just feel that despite having a few good albums like the ones you mentioned - overall - they err more towards being a singles band.

[Knebby]

OK, get your point and still disagree. Onwards

[Disco Duck]

That absolutely doesn't make them a singles band.ALL of their albums are massive sellers in the UK and the early ones like A Night At The Opera and A Day At The Races were thought-out as complete pieces. They were less popular in the US, I acknowledge that, but the world of music doesn't begin and end there.

Queen got a lot of airplay on American radio during the second half of the 70's. I'd say they were very popular here but I also think they suffered from overexposure by the end of the decade. Something similar happened to Peter Frampton.