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greenman

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Everything posted by greenman

  1. I actually think part of the issue was just how good Jimmy was previously, he could basically play in a very loose and often improvised fashion but still retain the tightness needed for a song like Stairway. That meant that when he experienced a bit of a dropoff any weaknesses were MUCH more obvious than in a band who would just play tight rehearsed versions of songs. I think you see Page himself maybe realised that after 77 and I think you see for the 79 comeback shows he's playing tighter and more rehershed, good in one way but also I do think it loses something of the magic of Zep at their best and I'd take the better 77 shows over the Knedworth first night for example. It does mean as well that generally I preffer the songs that are naturally a bit looser in 75-77, DAC. NQ, TU, IMTOD, etc I also think that explains the "under rehearsed" criticism of the band as well, after a period away they were often less impressive(even in the earlier years) and I think part of that is that they depended on having a strong feel for each other which isn't easy to regain quickly, not a question of "just learning the songs". You listen to the band at their absolute peak and they are almost telepathic, my favourite example would be Communication Breakdown from 29/9/71and how perfectly Bonham and Jones follow Page though several unique shifts. That's not I'd imagine something that's easy to pick up and retain without playing together a lot.
  2. In retrospect I think they would have been better off putting 10 ribs on the album, maybe on side one instead of RO, shift that to side two and drop CSR entirely(or as a B-side in the US). Besides being IMHO up their with the bands best work(can't think of any other "lost" tracks as good, maybe Dennis Wilson's Holy Man) I think it would actually fit the album better. Its obviously very different in sound to the hard rock of much of the rest of it but it does have the same epic atmosphere as ALS, FYL and TFO plus I think diversity of sound was always a big part of Zep's appeal. As mentioned 10 ribs was almost certainly an attempt to record something along the lines of the later 75 versions of NQ, the versions from Earls Court on the 2nd and 3rd night especially.
  3. Hendrix himself stated that surf rock was a big influence on him didn't he? around the same time as well Syd Barrett was playing some very loud/disordered guitar on tracks like Interstellar Overdrive. I do think Page was much closer to Hendrix than the likes of Clapton were, how much of that was influence of the latter on the former and how much was the two of them having similar influences is hard to say. Both I think valued classic rock n roll and RnB(and proto funk like James Brown) just as highly as they did blues and were obviously more open to expenaise psychedelic sounds. Theres obviously a lot unique in Zep as well but earlier on especially I think you could argue they were filling the gap left by Hendrix inactivity and then death.
  4. Interesting compilation definitely, i'll try to get around to giving it a listen. I suspect actually if this was going to happen officially it would have replaced TSRTS, maybe a quad album with one disk each for RAH 1970, LA 72, MSG 73 and EC 75. That could actually have balanced quite nicely with each disk having one side of shorter tracks and an epic on the other side. RAH 70 Side 1 - Were Gonna Groove, I Can't Quit You, Communication Breakdown, Bring It On Home Side 2 - How Many More Times LA 72 Side 1 - Immigrant Song, Heartbreaker, Black Dog, Over The Hills and Far Away Side 2 - Whole Lotta Love MSG 73 Side 1- Rock and Roll, The Ocean, Since I'v Been Loving You, Stairway to Heaven Side 2 - Dazed and Confused EC 75 Side 1 - Trampled Underfoot, In My Time of Dying, That's The Way, Going to California Side 2 - No Quarter
  5. An underrated one is the 9/10/72 in Osaka, quite unique with most up tempo rockabilly stuff in it. Generally though I think mid/late 71 was really the peak for the extended medley versions were they hit the kind of level they had reached with HMMT in 1970. Some good Japanese and US ones mentioned but also some from the UK winter tour, 25/11/71 in Leicester is superb IMHO and the best version of Going Down they ever did. The Euro 73 versions are great as well, obviously less spontaneous in terms of what they include but incredibly energetic.
  6. Although I think this CD actually has a lot of the stuff on it that benefits most from a quality SB, stuff like NQ and DAC I enjoyed a lot already.
  7. There seemed to be a gap between the SB releases that happened in the 90's from 73 and 80 and what we got latter. I can't remember off the top of my head exactly who put out all that earlier stuff first but much of it was actually lables like Flying Disc Music that sold relatively cheap to the mass market so were offering decent money. I'd guess as that market was largely shut down it caused new sources to dry up and it was only the hype around the DVD and EV targeting a more luxury market on a decent scale that started things up again with the money to pay for sources. I do generally still take the view that whilst its good this stuff is out there for free to those who want it there should be a bit of gratitude shown to those who pay for it rather than the hostility we often see, ultimately its there money that pays for this material to see the light of day. As pointed out above when the money wasn't there the sources largely dried up, whoever has these SB's isn't just going to release them out of the goodness of their heart.
  8. From EV's perspective I spose I can see the logic in leaving them off, if your going to milk your customers don't rub it in releasing them same tracks again so quickly. Again though I'm guessing someone else will put out a knockoff that includes it all soon enough if you want a CD version. The Orlando board was very nice as well compared to a lot of later years stuff so I'm not surprised this source is as well. The biggest positive for me is that Dazed is complete, I feared it might just be a fragment but to hear the whole thing including all of Pennies From Heaven is a real treat. Whats more I think the lack of cuts during it perhaps hints that the board being incompete is due to editing after the fact and that we will get a more complete show sometime in the future.
  9. Ultimately nobody is forcing anyone to buy any of this of course and its all going to be out there on the net as soon as its released. I mean if people really want a CD copy I suspect some other company is going to stick all of this stuff together on one release and charge a fraction of the price within a few months.
  10. I don't think even the 75 Seattle show was held in quite the same regard that an incomplete release would have given as much interest. The way this show is cut up again though does seem a little strange, I spose the 71 Florida show was a bit cut up as well but not to this degree which does make me think something has chopped it up afterwards.
  11. Not sure Page would bother with this, I mean any money involved is going to be very small change for him plus I think he'd have focused more on the early years as well. I suspect those stolen soundboards have ended up in the hands of someone who is slowly selling them off to EVSD to maximise their profits. I mean I don't to make a definitive statement as its possible this is all their is the show but I think its also possible that the person selling off material has realised that 29/9/71 is such a holy grail they can sell it off a piece at a time. Not sure about the one song releases which might well have been ESVD trying to spread the cost of buying the source out but what we have now could well be all they have only to have someone sell them a more complete version down the road. This is very different from say some random 77 board, you only offer half a show there and people are not going to be showing much interest.
  12. Honestly though I doubt that really had much impact on their sales, it was always going to be on offer for free very soon after release anyway so nobody was buying it as a last resort it was people who wanted a CD copy of it. I would say as well that I'm not entirely convinced its just EVSD at play here, it could just as well be someone else selling them material piece by piece to maximise their own profit.
  13. Indeed, this track ordering does seem rather different to what we typically see from incomplete SB's of the era with so many gaps. I mean yeah we haven't had a confirmed SB from Japan 71 before so something different might have been going on there but equally I wouldn't be shocked if this isn't the whole thing, just enough for a proper release and maybe holding back enough for another big release sometime in the future. What I would say though is that whilst I would personally have WLL from this show as the best live performance Zep ever gave(the same track from 23/9 also up there) I'v always kind of thought that the existing source was part of the appeal. I mean no its not perfect at all but it is incredibly powerful sounding and I wonder whether even a good SB wouldn't quite recreate that insane intensity? I actually think the earlier parts of the show are the ones that suffer rather more from issues with the main source so in a way having upgrades from them might end up being more interesting, especially Dazed if it includes the complete Pennies from Heaven.
  14. Going back to this after a good while spent with "10 ribs" I am actually coming around the idea it could have worked quite well in Presense. Yes its very different in soundin some regards to the rest of the albums heavy guitars BUT I would say it seems to fit into the more "stately" and less funky style of that album, perhaps better than tracks like Royal Orleans and Candy Store Rock. You listen to Tea for One especially and I think you can a similar sense of space and atmosphere. I could imagine a track listing with say side one ALS, FYL and 10 Ribs(with a proper name) and then FTBM, HOFN and TFO on side two. That to me would potentially make for a more individual album that would stand apart more from the bands previous work. As for the idea behind the song I would say its pretty obviously an outgrowth of the latter 75 No Quarter jams but pushed into a much tighter composition and kept more focused on the piano work.
  15. I wouldn't agree the LA shows lack spontaneity, granted the setlist doesn't change besides SIBLY on the 27th but the songs themselves do. The 25th for example has Jones moving back to keyboards halfway though NQ and Spanish Eyes in Dazed, the 27th has Gallows Pole at the end of TU and the "Loving You" segment in Dazed. Indeed I would tend to say those two shows feel like some of the most spontaneous of the year to me with several of the solos also being quiet different(OTHAFA on the 27th for example). Besides technical issues I do tend to think that's really what holds the first half(and maybe somewhat of the early stages of the second half) of the US tour back a bit. It still sounds like a band finding there feet again to me across much of the set after the long layoff. The latter stages of the 2nd leg and EC seem much more inline with Zep from 69-73 to me, perhaps not always technically perfect but a more similar mentality.
  16. I can kind of see both points of view though, its certainly not "bad" and is probably the slickest of the versions from EC but its also lacking a bit of spark to it. The version from the 18th has more grace to it IMHO and the 23rd has one of JPJ most atmospheric solo's. I do always tend to go back to the 27/3 in LA though, maybe not the most energetic version ever much I think the best constructed with the jam just building and building in intensity, I think it actually helps a bit that Page isn't lighting it up though out as it gives JPJ a bit more space.
  17. The whole "soundboard revolution" to me has smacked of someone selling of sources one at a time to maximise their earnings, the way the releases have tended to become progressively more sort after to keep interest high. I wouldn't be surprised if EV had to pay a premium for this show given its legendary status and thus are having to string it out to recoop the cost, hence this release. Its perhaps not the best track of the show performance wise but I'd guess EV went with HB because the encores have only previously been around on the inferior audience source not the higher quality one that covers most of the show.
  18. I would disagree there Duckman, granted the material would probably not be AS interesting to a mainstream audience as the original DVD but I think were clearly seeing that bands are much more happy to try and target hardcore fanbases these days including that other previous paragon of perfectionism Pink Floyd. There could of course be audio only releases of these shows and indeed that would obviously cut down on the cost.
  19. I'd imagine this will be a 4 disk release so no reason for EV to cut something out unless its not on their source. This does sound very nice I'd agree, needs some EQ as most SB's do but the bass especially is very clear.
  20. Going for all musical artists rather than "rock" I would say... 60's The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendricks, John Coltrane, The Beach Boys, Miles Davis, The Velvet Underground, Bill Evans Trio, Love, Pink Floyd 70's Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Can, Steely Dan, The Clash, Popul Vuh, David Bowie, Neu/La Dussledorf, Miles Davis, John Cale 80'a The Stone Roses, Spacemen 3, Talk Talk, Guns and Roses, Talking Heads, The Pixies, REM, Joy Division/New Order, Penguin Café Orchestra, The Smiths 90's Primal Scream, Massive Attack, Shack/Michael Head, The Orb, Mercury Rev, Radiohead, Talk Talk/Mark Hollis, The Verve, Spiritualised, Orbital,
  21. Perhaps somewhat, I don't think the performance is a total revelation to the degree that if you greatly dislike the 75 tour its going to bring you around yet it does I think has a good case as the best show of the tour being both very consistent and having inspired versions of NQ plus DAC with probably more energy to them than any other 75 show. I certainly wouldn't say no to an early 75 SB although really I tend to think there was a reason why they dropped the newer material and I think theres clearly more difference between 73 and 75 than the setlist suggests with NQ especially evolving into something very different.
  22. Yeah I do as well, it was actually the first Zep boot I picked up and whilst it was something of a baptism of fire in some respects the second disk especially is one of my most listened to, probably the best ever versions of NQ and TU for me although a better quality version of the 21st might change my mind. Personally I actually preffer the sound of the 75 Millard shows(at least the last 2 LA shows) but I think that's partly down to the sound of the band and especially Page's guitar tone.
  23. I think the 27th is patchy but has some amazing highs, NQ, TU and the opening section of DAC are all amazing and OTHAFA has an interesting solo as well. The 25th I think starts off patchy as well in the opening third but then picks up massively with NQ(maybe not quite as good as the following nights() and stays consistently excellent from that point on with the second best DAC of the tour after the 21st. Really though the Millard recordings of these shows are good enough that I don't think SB's would be that important to have, might well sound worse.. I can see the attraction of the earlier 75 shows(well after the band get back in decent form) and some of those performances like MSG are probably slickier overall than the latter shows yet I just think the band were lacking a bit of inspiration that only really started to emerge again during the second leg of the tour. The 21st to me though has the best of both aspects, consistency AND inspiration.
  24. I would say the big advantage of the 21st is that energy level stays high though out almost all of the show, generally for the latter 75 shows I think it tends to be the case that the band turns it on for certain tracks but here they do it for almost everything.
  25. I wouldn't take it THAT far, the EC shows(well the last 4 anyway) clearly are some of the best of the year but again I think that towards the end of the US tour on the west coast the band did tap into something special. Whole shows weren't always as consistent as EC BUT the epic tracks(NQ and DAC) and some of the shorter ones like TU hit heights that I don't think EC quite matches in terms of energy although again I do like the more atmospheric EC versions of NQ.
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