greenman
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Theres a lot of good stuff but honestly I think 10 Ribs really stands out for me, one of the best "unreleased" tracks I'v ever heard(next to Dennis Wilson's Holy Man), maybe started out as an atempt to recreate the 75 No Quater jams in the studio but it really has evolved into its own thing. I have to say it as well, I think Presense would have be better if they'd included it instead of Royal Orleans and Candy Store Rock, maybe not a typical Zep track but I do think in keeping with the rather "epic" tone on that album.
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I do suspect as well that a big factor remain that Page whats the Zep official brand to still be a mark of quality and for the band to still retain some of the mystery.. The companion disks move somewhat away from that but still they tend to stick to material thats pretty well formed, not very early run thoughts most of the time either alternatives takes/mixes or would be songs that progressed quite awhile.
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Its definitely less energetic than the version a couple of nights before which is probably as up tempo jazzy as it ever got but I do think it still works well personally, Page being less dominant does I think leave more room for JPJ to build up the mood which makes it really dramatic which is I'd guess part of why so many people love it, feels part way between the jazzier versions and the more classical ones from EC. In terms of JPJ personally I think his best ever performance in it is from 23/5 at EC., the solo section really does feel incredibly grand and atmospheric.
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Yep I do think this is a very significant factor thats typically overlooked, a lot of the playing that people put down to "sloppiness" really I think is deliberate, most obviously in the three piece jam section of No Quarter which is obviously looking to shift more towards jazz rock. I do wonder as well if this doesnt also explain some of the shift in tone in the latter Zep years and especially in 75? moving towards a harsher sound that arguably highlights this element of his playing more. You can I think definately make a case it suited some songs better than others, most obviously songs recorded in the latter era tend to suit it well but I think it does make an interesting alternative for stuff like No Quarter and Dazed plus solos in songs like Over the Hills are IMHO livened up by it, Stairway I would tend to agree cna get a bit patchy as I think its solo really does depend more on fluid speed and this kind of playing can get in the way of that.
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1977 SHOWS RANKED INTO 3 CATEGORIES
greenman replied to confounded_bridge's topic in Led Zeppelin Live
I actually think part of the issue was just how good Jimmy was previously, he could basically play in a very loose and often improvised fashion but still retain the tightness needed for a song like Stairway. That meant that when he experienced a bit of a dropoff any weaknesses were MUCH more obvious than in a band who would just play tight rehearsed versions of songs. I think you see Page himself maybe realised that after 77 and I think you see for the 79 comeback shows he's playing tighter and more rehershed, good in one way but also I do think it loses something of the magic of Zep at their best and I'd take the better 77 shows over the Knedworth first night for example. It does mean as well that generally I preffer the songs that are naturally a bit looser in 75-77, DAC. NQ, TU, IMTOD, etc I also think that explains the "under rehearsed" criticism of the band as well, after a period away they were often less impressive(even in the earlier years) and I think part of that is that they depended on having a strong feel for each other which isn't easy to regain quickly, not a question of "just learning the songs". You listen to the band at their absolute peak and they are almost telepathic, my favourite example would be Communication Breakdown from 29/9/71and how perfectly Bonham and Jones follow Page though several unique shifts. That's not I'd imagine something that's easy to pick up and retain without playing together a lot. -
In retrospect I think they would have been better off putting 10 ribs on the album, maybe on side one instead of RO, shift that to side two and drop CSR entirely(or as a B-side in the US). Besides being IMHO up their with the bands best work(can't think of any other "lost" tracks as good, maybe Dennis Wilson's Holy Man) I think it would actually fit the album better. Its obviously very different in sound to the hard rock of much of the rest of it but it does have the same epic atmosphere as ALS, FYL and TFO plus I think diversity of sound was always a big part of Zep's appeal. As mentioned 10 ribs was almost certainly an attempt to record something along the lines of the later 75 versions of NQ, the versions from Earls Court on the 2nd and 3rd night especially.
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Hendrix himself stated that surf rock was a big influence on him didn't he? around the same time as well Syd Barrett was playing some very loud/disordered guitar on tracks like Interstellar Overdrive. I do think Page was much closer to Hendrix than the likes of Clapton were, how much of that was influence of the latter on the former and how much was the two of them having similar influences is hard to say. Both I think valued classic rock n roll and RnB(and proto funk like James Brown) just as highly as they did blues and were obviously more open to expenaise psychedelic sounds. Theres obviously a lot unique in Zep as well but earlier on especially I think you could argue they were filling the gap left by Hendrix inactivity and then death.
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Interesting compilation definitely, i'll try to get around to giving it a listen. I suspect actually if this was going to happen officially it would have replaced TSRTS, maybe a quad album with one disk each for RAH 1970, LA 72, MSG 73 and EC 75. That could actually have balanced quite nicely with each disk having one side of shorter tracks and an epic on the other side. RAH 70 Side 1 - Were Gonna Groove, I Can't Quit You, Communication Breakdown, Bring It On Home Side 2 - How Many More Times LA 72 Side 1 - Immigrant Song, Heartbreaker, Black Dog, Over The Hills and Far Away Side 2 - Whole Lotta Love MSG 73 Side 1- Rock and Roll, The Ocean, Since I'v Been Loving You, Stairway to Heaven Side 2 - Dazed and Confused EC 75 Side 1 - Trampled Underfoot, In My Time of Dying, That's The Way, Going to California Side 2 - No Quarter
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An underrated one is the 9/10/72 in Osaka, quite unique with most up tempo rockabilly stuff in it. Generally though I think mid/late 71 was really the peak for the extended medley versions were they hit the kind of level they had reached with HMMT in 1970. Some good Japanese and US ones mentioned but also some from the UK winter tour, 25/11/71 in Leicester is superb IMHO and the best version of Going Down they ever did. The Euro 73 versions are great as well, obviously less spontaneous in terms of what they include but incredibly energetic.
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Although I think this CD actually has a lot of the stuff on it that benefits most from a quality SB, stuff like NQ and DAC I enjoyed a lot already.
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09/29/1971 Osaka - Stairway To Heaven - EVSD SBD Single
greenman replied to mknopfler's topic in Led Zeppelin Live
There seemed to be a gap between the SB releases that happened in the 90's from 73 and 80 and what we got latter. I can't remember off the top of my head exactly who put out all that earlier stuff first but much of it was actually lables like Flying Disc Music that sold relatively cheap to the mass market so were offering decent money. I'd guess as that market was largely shut down it caused new sources to dry up and it was only the hype around the DVD and EV targeting a more luxury market on a decent scale that started things up again with the money to pay for sources. I do generally still take the view that whilst its good this stuff is out there for free to those who want it there should be a bit of gratitude shown to those who pay for it rather than the hostility we often see, ultimately its there money that pays for this material to see the light of day. As pointed out above when the money wasn't there the sources largely dried up, whoever has these SB's isn't just going to release them out of the goodness of their heart. -
09/29/1971 Osaka - Stairway To Heaven - EVSD SBD Single
greenman replied to mknopfler's topic in Led Zeppelin Live
From EV's perspective I spose I can see the logic in leaving them off, if your going to milk your customers don't rub it in releasing them same tracks again so quickly. Again though I'm guessing someone else will put out a knockoff that includes it all soon enough if you want a CD version. The Orlando board was very nice as well compared to a lot of later years stuff so I'm not surprised this source is as well. The biggest positive for me is that Dazed is complete, I feared it might just be a fragment but to hear the whole thing including all of Pennies From Heaven is a real treat. Whats more I think the lack of cuts during it perhaps hints that the board being incompete is due to editing after the fact and that we will get a more complete show sometime in the future. -
09/29/1971 Osaka - Stairway To Heaven - EVSD SBD Single
greenman replied to mknopfler's topic in Led Zeppelin Live
Ultimately nobody is forcing anyone to buy any of this of course and its all going to be out there on the net as soon as its released. I mean if people really want a CD copy I suspect some other company is going to stick all of this stuff together on one release and charge a fraction of the price within a few months. -
09/29/1971 Osaka - Stairway To Heaven - EVSD SBD Single
greenman replied to mknopfler's topic in Led Zeppelin Live
I don't think even the 75 Seattle show was held in quite the same regard that an incomplete release would have given as much interest. The way this show is cut up again though does seem a little strange, I spose the 71 Florida show was a bit cut up as well but not to this degree which does make me think something has chopped it up afterwards. -
09/29/1971 Osaka - Stairway To Heaven - EVSD SBD Single
greenman replied to mknopfler's topic in Led Zeppelin Live
Not sure Page would bother with this, I mean any money involved is going to be very small change for him plus I think he'd have focused more on the early years as well. I suspect those stolen soundboards have ended up in the hands of someone who is slowly selling them off to EVSD to maximise their profits. I mean I don't to make a definitive statement as its possible this is all their is the show but I think its also possible that the person selling off material has realised that 29/9/71 is such a holy grail they can sell it off a piece at a time. Not sure about the one song releases which might well have been ESVD trying to spread the cost of buying the source out but what we have now could well be all they have only to have someone sell them a more complete version down the road. This is very different from say some random 77 board, you only offer half a show there and people are not going to be showing much interest.