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Jan Steingold

The Occult and Zeppelin

28 posts in this topic

So, I read the Zeppelin bio by Mick Wall, "When Giants Walked the Earth" and he goes into quite a lot of depth about Page's obsession with occultist (or some use Satanist) Alastair Crowley.  Which struck me as ironic because in the 70s us kids were warned that listening to Zeppelin was an act of satanism.  Seriously thought that was the stupidest thing I ever heard.  Then I read this...  Wall also talks about the Zeppelin curse.  Though unfortunately affected Plant the most.  It does seem weird that there was all this bad juju around the band (Plant's accident, his son dying then Bonham who was Plant's BF dying, ending the band).  I wonder if Plant ever thought that Jimmy messing around in black magick had anything to do with the band's woes and his specifically.

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Too bad I just read this right now. I just had Satan visiting for a cup of tea and a chat, so I could have asked him.

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the Mick Wall biog goes into mind bogglingly tedious detail on Crowley. That chapter drags on and on unecessarily. As for a curse, plenty of bad things happened to e.g. the Rolling Stones as well - Brian Jones' death, Keef's various addictions. But no one talks about a "curse of the Stones". Imo the occult stuff is just another part of the mythology that swirls around Zeppelin, nothing more.

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Awww...sorry I missed Satan.  LOL I was just interested if there was any speculation on this subject.  Kinda like Sympathy for the Devil...the Stones wouldn't play that song for awhile after the killing at Altamont.  Just wondering if any members of Zeppelin were superstitious after the bad crap that happened.  

Yeah Wall drones on and on and on about that subject.  The book was a decent read except for the author's penchant for needling a subject to death.  Is there a better bio on Zep that I should read?

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6 hours ago, Jan Steingold said:

So, I read the Zeppelin bio by Mick Wall, "When Giants Walked the Earth" and he goes into quite a lot of depth about Page's obsession with occultist (or some use Satanist) Alastair Crowley.  Which struck me as ironic because in the 70s us kids were warned that listening to Zeppelin was an act of satanism.  Seriously thought that was the stupidest thing I ever heard.  Then I read this...  Wall also talks about the Zeppelin curse.  Though unfortunately affected Plant the most.  It does seem weird that there was all this bad juju around the band (Plant's accident, his son dying then Bonham who was Plant's BF dying, ending the band).  I wonder if Plant ever thought that Jimmy messing around in black magick had anything to do with the band's woes and his specifically.

I am only speculating but likely Plant blamed the addictions of Page in particular for many of the problems within the band, and addiction in general regarding Bonham. He sure sings about it enough. Think about it, Maureen was driving when it went off the road in Rhodes...she was reportedly intoxicated. Jimmy was performing poorly from 77'-80' as a result of his addiction. Cole & Grant were addicted and hiring freaks like John Bindon. Then Bonham dies from alcohol abuse.

I guess the curse of Zeppelin was simple human frailty and over-indulgence. Satan has not a chance in hell against the demon of addiction...that's the real devil.

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Did not know that about Maureen.  And certainly the band was all about overindulgence and overexcess.  It was the 70s after all.  That era was all excess.  I think JPJ and Plant were the sanest of the bunch.  You are right about addiction... it is the real devil.

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2 hours ago, Jan Steingold said:

 Is there a better bio on Zep that I should read?

I am sure to get shit for this but read "Hammer of the Gods". 

Also, I think that all four members of Led Zeppelin were into the Occult.  The other three not to the degree that Mr. Page was, but into it just as well. 

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14 hours ago, kingzoso said:

 

Also, I think that all four members of Led Zeppelin were into the Occult.  The other three not to the degree that Mr. Page was, but into it just as well. 

Based on what..?

Edited by the chase

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9 hours ago, kingzoso said:

I am sure to get shit for this but read "Hammer of the Gods". 

Also, I think that all four members of Led Zeppelin were into the Occult.  The other three not to the degree that Mr. Page was, but into it just as well. 

I doubt that seriously, and further, I believe Page was simply a dilettante regarding the occult. It was only because of his high profile purchases of places such as Boleskine & Equinox which made it seem like more than it was. Page was invited to join the OTO several times and never even responded once. He was never a member of the Golden Dawn either so, there are the two lodges most famously associated with Crowley yet he joins neither. Just like myself and others, Page was / is fascinated by the occult and studies it; that does not necessarity equate into stalking around graveyards at midnight with some ancient grimoire and robes attempting to lure Pazuzu from his slumber.

Though now that I think of it, I remember hanging out with old Robert in 85' during the Shaken n' Stirred tour and hearing Ave Satani creeping from his Walkman. That little devil.

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4 hours ago, IpMan said:

I doubt that seriously, and further, I believe Page was simply a dilettante regarding the occult. It was only because of his high profile purchases of places such as Boleskine & Equinox which made it seem like more than it was. Page was invited to join the OTO several times and never even responded once. He was never a member of the Golden Dawn either so, there are the two lodges most famously associated with Crowley yet he joins neither. Just like myself and others, Page was / is fascinated by the occult and studies it; that does not necessarity equate into stalking around graveyards at midnight with some ancient grimoire and robes attempting to lure Pazuzu from his slumber.

Though now that I think of it, I remember hanging out with old Robert in 85' during the Shaken n' Stirred tour and hearing Ave Satani creeping from his Walkman. That little devil.

Inscribed a Crowley quote in the dead wax of an album...incorporated Crowley rituals into his stage performances...released an album to coincide with Crowley's birthdate...purchased high end Crowley properties and memorabilia...undertook a pilgrimage to Crowley's Abbey in Sicily...created a publishing company to republish Crowley's works...adopted a Crowley credo to define his life...the lad seems to have had more than a passing interest in Crowley.

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17 hours ago, Jan Steingold said:

Yeah Wall drones on and on and on about that subject.  The book was a decent read except for the author's penchant for needling a subject to death.  Is there a better bio on Zep that I should read?

Imo the Barney Hoskyns "Trampled Underfoot" oral history is miles better than Giants Walked the Earth. It's close on 600 pages & I still read it in two days, it's that good.

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8 hours ago, IpMan said:

 Page was invited to join the OTO several times and never even responded once. He was never a member of the Golden Dawn either so, there are the two lodges most famously associated with Crowley yet he joins neither.

How do you know this?

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16 minutes ago, ScarletMacaw said:

How do you know this?

It was in one of the Zep biography books, cannot remember which one but it even had a copy of the letter shown. 

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4 minutes ago, IpMan said:

It was in one of the Zep biography books, cannot remember which one but it even had a copy of the letter shown. 

So you know that he was invited to join the OTO...but you don't know that he didn't. It is after all a semi-secret society.

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4 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Inscribed a Crowley quote in the dead wax of an album...incorporated Crowley rituals into his stage performances...released an album to coincide with Crowley's birthdate...purchased high end Crowley properties and memorabilia...undertook a pilgrimage to Crowley's Abbey in Sicily...created a publishing company to republish Crowley's works...adopted a Crowley credo to define his life...the lad seems to have had more than a passing interest in Crowley.

He never incorporated rituals on stage as that would be near impossible to do. A ritual is very, very involved and detailed, set and setting must be perfect to the ritual. Going on stage and making some moronic hand gestures does not a ritual make. Especially of you are talking Thelemite rituals, they are extremely detailed, involve sacred geometry along with astronomical alignments and all present are considered participants in the ritual. This means every single person in the concert hall would have be be at least a basic thelemite acolyte using complete and total concentration to focus on the ritual at hand and lend power to the one performing the ritual in a conscious manner. Anything less, according to Crowley himself, could result in a disaster of biblical proportions and the unleashing of powerful entities...if you believe in such things.

I love guitars, I play them, buy them semi-obsessively, and even perform in a bar band. None of this makes me a rock star or even a serious professional musician.

Jimmy was a dilletante, a very wealthy dilettante but one none the less.

 

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11 minutes ago, ScarletMacaw said:

So you know that he was invited to join the OTO...but you don't know that he didn't. It is after all a semi-secret society.

The quote in the book stated Jimmy never answered the letter, nor any others which followed. The OTO does not publish its membership roster so it does qualify as a secret society. Anything is possible though. Then again, Jay-Z, Beyonce, Sting, George Lucas, & Johnny Cash among a host of other celebrities are supposed to belong to this group and, is also part of the New World Order. I swear, I am not making this stuff up, it is hilarious.

Edited by IpMan

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1 hour ago, IpMan said:

The quote in the book stated Jimmy never answered the letter, nor any others which followed. The OTO does not publish its membership roster so it does qualify as a secret society. Anything is possible though. Then again, Jay-Z, Beyonce, Sting, George Lucas, & Johnny Cash among a host of other celebrities are supposed to belong to this group and, is also part of the New World Order. I swear, I am not making this stuff up, it is hilarious.

No way are Jay-Z or Beyonce members as the only type of worship they engage in is the worship of money. Johnny Cash was a devout Christian. George Lucas I don't know. Sting possibly; it might be up his alley.

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1 hour ago, ScarletMacaw said:

No way are Jay-Z or Beyonce members as the only type of worship they engage in is the worship of money. Johnny Cash was a devout Christian. George Lucas I don't know. Sting possibly; it might be up his alley.

That's why I mentioned them, you cannot believe everything you read or is reported but there are sites on the web that claim they are just the tip of the iceberg in regard to OTO membership among the entertainment elites.

I am a huge history & theology buff, been studying all my life as both fascinate me to no end. If I had the money I would have purchased Boleskine House as well, not to mention have a library on the occult, world & alternative religion, the complete apocryphal & pseudo-apocryphal biblical text, etc. That being said I am pretty much agnostic. Maybe Jimmy is in the OTO or Golden Dawn, if he is he sure keeps it quiet and appears to affect his life in a positive way...at least as of late.

Bottom line is, unless he was actively participating in ritual or magical workings, I cannot see how any negative vibes could come of it. Magic & occult practice do not work that way, you must be an active participant for anything to happen. That is if you believe that stuff.

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14 hours ago, the chase said:

Based on what..?

Based on a feeling and not actual proof that I can provide.  However, John Paul Jones had known Jimmy for years as a fellow session musicians.  Jimmy and Peter then met Robert and Robert recommended Bonzo.  I do not think (and I could be wrong), but if John Baldwin, Robert Plant and John Bonham were willing to "follow" James Patrick Page in an untested and "new" band knowing Jimmy's (at least a little at that time), fascination with the supernatural and/or the Occult, I think that these three were maybe intrigued or somewhat interested in the thought of following something that was unbeknown to them at that time (1968). 

Jimmy was already well-known in the British session scene and I could picture him explaining to the other three that a little (or a lot) of Occult symbolism would help all four of them achieve the heights that no one had ever achieved before, including the Beatles.  And it worked. 

Led Zeppelin is considered the GREATEST ROCK AND ROLL BAND OF ALL-TIME.  THEIR MUSIC WILL STAND THE TEST OF TIME, FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS IN THE FUTURE!!!

I personally do not care if Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones and John Henry Bonham were Satanists or not.  To Me, I care about the Music that these Powerful Musicians made. 

Led Zeppelin.  James Patrick Page, Robert Anthony Plant, John Baldwin and John Henry Bonham are the Greatest and most Powerful Men that ever strode the Planet Earth!!!

 

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10 hours ago, kingzoso said:

Based on a feeling and not actual proof that I can provide.  However, John Paul Jones had known Jimmy for years as a fellow session musicians.  Jimmy and Peter then met Robert and Robert recommended Bonzo.  I do not think (and I could be wrong), but if John Baldwin, Robert Plant and John Bonham were willing to "follow" James Patrick Page in an untested and "new" band knowing Jimmy's (at least a little at that time), fascination with the supernatural and/or the Occult, I think that these three were maybe intrigued or somewhat interested in the thought of following something that was unbeknown to them at that time (1968). 

Jimmy was already well-known in the British session scene and I could picture him explaining to the other three that a little (or a lot) of Occult symbolism would help all four of them achieve the heights that no one had ever achieved before, including the Beatles.  And it worked. 

Led Zeppelin is considered the GREATEST ROCK AND ROLL BAND OF ALL-TIME.  THEIR MUSIC WILL STAND THE TEST OF TIME, FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS IN THE FUTURE!!!

I personally do not care if Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones and John Henry Bonham were Satanists or not.  To Me, I care about the Music that these Powerful Musicians made. 

Led Zeppelin.  James Patrick Page, Robert Anthony Plant, John Baldwin and John Henry Bonham are the Greatest and most Powerful Men that ever strode the Planet Earth!!!

 

If that's the case, it would be more logical if the members of Zep would have joined Charles Manson to record an album, or possibly Black Sabbath.

Edited by reswati

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The OTO today is not what it used to be.  Before Crowley died he pretty much broke up the OTO and had re-organization changes.   Lot of deep secrets and writings are within deep levels of the order or major collectors like Page and Alan Moore. 

Few years ago I looked into OTO groups on Facebook, one group in my area looked like a trendy group that did not look serious and was formed out of interest but do no possess real internal knowledge

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Gerald Gardner was granted a charter to run O.T.O, but not sure what exactly took place.  Interesting though, many of Gerald's rituals and practice was Crowleys when forming Wicca, but then later re-wrote things differently omitting Crowley.

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usne&c=words&id=15552

 

More info on OTO after Crowley's death according to Wiki

 

O.T.O. after Aleister Crowley

After Crowley's death Germer attempted to keep O.T.O. running, with questionable success. Crowley had granted a charter to run an O.T.O. Camp in England to Gerald Gardner, and Germer acknowledged Gardner as the O.T.O.'s main representative in Europe. The two men met in 1948 in New York to discuss plans, but Gardner's continuing ill health led to Germer replacing him with Frederic Mellinger in 1951. Also in 1951 Germer granted a charter to run an O.T.O. Camp in England to Kenneth Grant, who had briefly served as Crowley's secretary during the 1940s. Grant was to be expelled and his charter revoked in 1955 however, and from that time onwards the O.T.O.'s representative in the U.K. was a IX° member, Noel Fitzgerald.[13]

Germer died in 1962 without naming a successor. It was not until 1969 that Grady McMurtry invoked emergency authorization from Crowley and became the Frater Superior of O.T.O. McMurtry did not claim the title of Outer Head of the Order, stating in 1974 that "There is at present no Outer Head of the Order for Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis. The Outer Head of the Order is an international office (see p. 201, The Blue Equinox) and Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis is not at this time established organizationally to fulfill the requirements of its Constitution in this respect."[14] He began performing initiations in 1970. O.T.O. was incorporated under the laws of the State of California on March 26, 1979. The corporation attained federal tax exemption as a religious entity under IRS Code 501(c)3 in 1982. Grady McMurtry died in 1985, having successfully saved O.T.O. from possible extinction.

McMurtry requested that members of the Sovereign Sanctuary of the Gnosis (i.e. the members of the Ninth Degree) elect the next Caliph, which they did in 1985. William Breeze was elected,[15] taking the name Hymenaeus Beta. In the Fall 1995 issue of The Magical Link, he is designated "Hymenaeus Beta X°"; in the Fall 1997 issue of The Magical Link, he is designated "Hymenaeus Beta XI°"; by May 2005, he is designated "O.H.O. Hymenaeus Beta XII°" on the O.T.O. website.[16]

In 1996, Sabazius X° was appointed as National Grand Master General (G.M.G.) for the U.S. Grand Lodge. In 2005, Frater Hyperion X° was appointed the National G.M.G. of the newly formed UK Grand Lodge. Frater Shiva X° was appointed the G.M.G. of Australia Grand Lodge in 2006.

 

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13 hours ago, kingzoso said:

Based on a feeling and not actual proof that I can provide.  However, John Paul Jones had known Jimmy for years as a fellow session musicians.  Jimmy and Peter then met Robert and Robert recommended Bonzo.  I do not think (and I could be wrong), but if John Baldwin, Robert Plant and John Bonham were willing to "follow" James Patrick Page in an untested and "new" band knowing Jimmy's (at least a little at that time), fascination with the supernatural and/or the Occult, I think that these three were maybe intrigued or somewhat interested in the thought of following something that was unbeknown to them at that time (1968). 

Jimmy was already well-known in the British session scene and I could picture him explaining to the other three that a little (or a lot) of Occult symbolism would help all four of them achieve the heights that no one had ever achieved before, including the Beatles.  And it worked. 

Led Zeppelin is considered the GREATEST ROCK AND ROLL BAND OF ALL-TIME.  THEIR MUSIC WILL STAND THE TEST OF TIME, FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS IN THE FUTURE!!!

I personally do not care if Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones and John Henry Bonham were Satanists or not.  To Me, I care about the Music that these Powerful Musicians made. 

Led Zeppelin.  James Patrick Page, Robert Anthony Plant, John Baldwin and John Henry Bonham are the Greatest and most Powerful Men that ever strode the Planet Earth!!!

 

That's your opinion and i won't argue with you on it. But, because their bandmate is into a certain lifestyle doesn't mean they are or were. I've seen nothing on John Paul Jones or John Bonham in particular being into the Occult or Crowley... or anything on their personal Religious beliefs for that matter. 

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I read an interview on John Paul Jones and asked about visiting any of Crowley's homes, Jones seemed creeped out and scared and said no, never.

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16 hours ago, kingzoso said:

Based on a feeling and not actual proof that I can provide.  However, John Paul Jones had known Jimmy for years as a fellow session musicians.  Jimmy and Peter then met Robert and Robert recommended Bonzo.  I do not think (and I could be wrong), but if John Baldwin, Robert Plant and John Bonham were willing to "follow" James Patrick Page in an untested and "new" band knowing Jimmy's (at least a little at that time), fascination with the supernatural and/or the Occult, I think that these three were maybe intrigued or somewhat interested in the thought of following something that was unbeknown to them at that time (1968). 

Jimmy was already well-known in the British session scene and I could picture him explaining to the other three that a little (or a lot) of Occult symbolism would help all four of them achieve the heights that no one had ever achieved before, including the Beatles.  And it worked. 

Led Zeppelin is considered the GREATEST ROCK AND ROLL BAND OF ALL-TIME.  THEIR MUSIC WILL STAND THE TEST OF TIME, FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS IN THE FUTURE!!!

I personally do not care if Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones and John Henry Bonham were Satanists or not.  To Me, I care about the Music that these Powerful Musicians made. 

Led Zeppelin.  James Patrick Page, Robert Anthony Plant, John Baldwin and John Henry Bonham are the Greatest and most Powerful Men that ever strode the Planet Earth!!!

 

By this logic, Brian May, Roger Taylor, and John Deacon are flaming homosexuals since Freddie Mercury was himself gay. Oh, and they also obsessively love cats and Spanish sopranos.

Hmmm, the song You're My Best Friend suddenly takes on a whole new meaning.

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