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ScarletMacaw

Was Jimmy married in the '60s?

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Someone here must know this. In Brad Tolinski's book, which I read a few months ago, Page mentions having an argument with his ex-wife in 1970. Who was this person? I have never seen a mention of her here or anywhere else...perhaps she's leading a quiet life in a suburb somewhere...Page does seem to use the word "marriage" loosely at times, so perhaps he was talking about a girlfriend..

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He means Charlotte. He met her on the 9th January 1970 (his 26th birthday, and the day he played the Albert Hall), so if it was 1970, that's who he was with. He's just using it to mean "partner", as some people do when they've been with someone a long time - "we're married in all but name" sort of thing.

It seems he also referred to her as if her name was Page, i.e. as if they were married, assuming this is genuine:

tumblr_lg41lbHRlC1qat444o1_500_zpsae224b

He also referred to himself as having gone through a "divorce" round about the time of the Earl's Court shows, i.e. he and Charlotte had split up for a bit.

Edited by scylla

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He only talks about having an arguement with Charlotte at Pagbourne before he went out to his balcony and wrote "Friends." They were never married, though some places say they were. I did learn they weren't and it was Charlotte's idea not to marry.

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He means Charlotte. He met her on the 9th January 1970 (his 26th birthday, and the day he played the Albert Hall), so if it was 1970, that's who he was with. He's just using it to mean "partner", as some people do when they've been with someone a long time - "we're married in all but name" sort of thing.

It seems he also referred to her as if her name was Page, i.e. as if they were married, assuming this is genuine:

tumblr_lg41lbHRlC1qat444o1_500_zpsae224b

He also referred to himself as having gone through a "divorce" round about the time of the Earl's Court shows, i.e. he and Charlotte had split up for a bit.

That's an odd piece , because I don't think Jimmy signed his name like that back then. That's a much more recent version of his signature than Plumpton Place would suggest -as far as I'm aware. Hmmmm - strange. Edited by Knebby

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That's an odd piece , because I don't think Jimmy signed his name like that back then. That's a much more recent version of his signature than Plumpton Place would suggest -as far as I'm aware. Hmmmm - strange.

Hmm, didn't know that. Perhaps not genuine then.

I suppose it's about conceivable that someone could have acquired such a thing and then met Page years later and had him autograph it, but not hugely likely. I mean, it's a personal greetings card, like something you send to a friend, right? If someone he didn't know stuck that under his nose and asked him to sign, he'd probably demand to know where they got it rather then obediently doing so.

Perhaps the card itself is for real, but the autograph is the work of some internet scammer.

One for the photo mysteries thread, maybe.

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Thanks for the feedback. So, Page met Charlotte at the beginning of '70, she went with him to Bron-yr-Aur, was impregnated with Scarlet, and before Page wrote "Friends" they had broken up and later had an argument? Wow, that's a lot to happen in a short period of time...when was the release date of III?

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Thanks for the feedback. So, Page met Charlotte at the beginning of '70, she went with him to Bron-yr-Aur, was impregnated with Scarlet, and before Page wrote "Friends" they had broken up and later had an argument? Wow, that's a lot to happen in a short period of time...when was the release date of III?

Led Zeppelin III was released 5th Oct 1970, but no, the breakup wasn't until later. I think it was in the summer of '74 that Page ran off with Krissy Wood (and Charlotte with Ronnie Wood) and they separated. The row in 1970 was just a row. Page said he went travelling after the Earl's Court gigs as he'd just been divorced and there was "nothing to keep me at home" - and those gigs were May '75. The "ex-wife" part of the quote refers to the fact that she was "ex" by the time he was telling the story - she wasn't ex at the time of the row.

Edited by scylla

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Hmm, didn't know that. Perhaps not genuine then.

I suppose it's about conceivable that someone could have acquired such a thing and then met Page years later and had him autograph it, but not hugely likely. I mean, it's a personal greetings card, like something you send to a friend, right? If someone he didn't know stuck that under his nose and asked him to sign, he'd probably demand to know where they got it rather then obediently doing so.

Perhaps the card itself is for real, but the autograph is the work of some internet scammer.

One for the photo mysteries thread, maybe.

No you know what? I'm not that familiar with Pagey's pre-1979 signature. I was really only aware that his sig changed a lot after the 80s. Maybe back then in the 70s he was precise like this, then when he wasn't at his best his sig was a bit more slap-dash, like the ones I know from the late 70s thru the 80s - then he went BACK to the precise sig, rather than altering it completely like I thought he had. Otherwise it just doesn't make a lot of sense.

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I'm not sure the chronology adds up:

Page: "The first two things I had for the third album were "Immigrant Song" and "Friends."...Friends...before I had writen anything, I had a massive argument with my ex-wife..."

Tolinski: "So you had "Friends," "Immigrant Song," and "Since I've Been Loving You' written. Where does your sojourn to Bron-Yr-Aur come into the picture?"

Page: "In early 1970,...we took a break..."

It's a little unclear, but it sounds like Page started writing "Friends" before he even went to Bron-Yr-Aur with Charlotte.

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Thanks for the feedback. So, Page met Charlotte at the beginning of '70, she went with him to Bron-yr-Aur, was impregnated with Scarlet, and before Page wrote "Friends" they had broken up and later had an argument? Wow, that's a lot to happen in a short period of time...when was the release date of III?

Another random fact regarding Charlotte and Jimmy...

According to a plantation (can't remember the exact date), Scarlett was conceived "about half an hour" after That's The Way was written at Bron-yr-aur

Edited by Sunshine woman

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I'm not sure the chronology adds up:

Page: "The first two things I had for the third album were "Immigrant Song" and "Friends."...Friends...before I had writen anything, I had a massive argument with my ex-wife..."

Tolinski: "So you had "Friends," "Immigrant Song," and "Since I've Been Loving You' written. Where does your sojourn to Bron-Yr-Aur come into the picture?"

Page: "In early 1970,...we took a break..."

It's a little unclear, but it sounds like Page started writing "Friends" before he even went to Bron-Yr-Aur with Charlotte.

Yes, he says he had the argument then "went out on a balcony in my house and suddenly the whole song spilled out" - the balcony makes it sound like this is the Pangbourne boathouse. I don't think anyone's ever claimed that all of LZ3 was written at Bron-Y-Aur.

Then he says the break at Bron-Y-Aur was after the fifth US tour - that tour ran from 21 March 1970 to 18 April 1970 so I guess they were off to Wales in April ("early" being a relative term I guess; much earlier and they'd have frozen to death by the sounds of it). So the having-a-row-and-then-writing-Friends must have been at Pangbourne, at some point between 9 Jan 1970 and 21 March 1970. (Or possibly in a brief interlude between getting back from the tour and going to Wales).

I think he said in another interview that he thought the anger he'd been feeling at the time was audible in those odd opening chords. He sounds pretty angry whilst recording it too (that muttered "Fuck!" just before the song proper starts). Maybe just playing it brought it all back...

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Is it possible that the signature is printed ? OK, that might seem a tad impersonal, but goodness knows how many cards someone like Jimmy sends out. There would be an argument for having the signature printed, rather than an original, as it stops the card from being sold for its autograph value. I know that when Princess Di died, a lot of people put their Christmas cards from her up for auction because it had her written signature. Just a thought.

No you know what? I'm not that familiar with Pagey's pre-1979 signature. I was really only aware that his sig changed a lot after the 80s. Maybe back then in the 70s he was precise like this, then when he wasn't at his best his sig was a bit more slap-dash, like the ones I know from the late 70s thru the 80s - then he went BACK to the precise sig, rather than altering it completely like I thought he had. Otherwise it just doesn't make a lot of sense.

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Is it possible that the signature is printed ? OK, that might seem a tad impersonal, but goodness knows how many cards someone like Jimmy sends out. There would be an argument for having the signature printed, rather than an original, as it stops the card from being sold for its autograph value. I know that when Princess Di died, a lot of people put their Christmas cards from her up for auction because it had her written signature. Just a thought.

I doubt the authenticity of the signature and the card. Definitely not signed in the 1970s; seems to be a late '90s-2000s era signature.

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in this interview on French TV in 2003, it is clear that the "divorce" (hence "marriage") was with Charlotte Martin. He answers a rather dumb question about music piracy (from 1min40sec) and mentions that he went through a difficult "divorce" period, left his house, then some bad people got close to his "ex-wife" and stole a lot of unreleased recorded materials. I think this story is widely known and discussed elsewhere on this forum. So given his own words he clearly thought of her as his wife, even if they were not officially married.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aK6vo28cN8

I add other excerpts from the same program, if you are interested. Many stupid questions ("do you prefer the Beatles or the Stones?") but also very frank ones on Crowley, drugs, Bonham...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzzWvIjAxo4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsngalFGkjg

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in this interview on French TV in 2003, it is clear that the "divorce" (hence "marriage") was with Charlotte Martin. He answers a rather dumb question about music piracy (from 1min40sec) and mentions that he went through a difficult "divorce" period, left his house, then some bad people got close to his "ex-wife" and stole a lot of unreleased recorded materials. I think this story is widely known and discussed elsewhere on this forum. So given his own words he clearly thought of her as his wife, even if they were not officially married.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aK6vo28cN8

I add other excerpts from the same program, if you are interested. Many stupid questions ("do you prefer the Beatles or the Stones?") but also very frank ones on Crowley, drugs, Bonham...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzzWvIjAxo4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsngalFGkjg

Though he has used the word divorce in some interviews (perhaps for the purpose of expediency) they never married.

Edited by SteveAJones

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Thanks Steve. So does it mean those bad people who stole his tapes were close to Patricia Ecker, not Charlotte Martin? If so I stand corrected, he was probably referring to his first "official" wife then.

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Steve, it seems your previous post was deleted. Anyway, I listened again and it really seems he was referring to Charlotte, not Patricia Ecker, imho.

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I was assuming that it was Charlotte. I think I was told that it may have been people who were around that were taking care of Scarlet. There maybe people here who know about it more clearly than I do.

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SAJ,

I have been thinking about the card since my last post. Why would Jimmy sign a greetings card in such a formal manner? Usually, you would sign with the Christian names. Particularly so, when the card has the senders' identities already printed thereon.

I am inclined to think the card is a fake, mocked up by someone who is adept with presentation software. Or if someone has scanned a genuine card onto the internet, an 'autograph type' signature has been superimposed onto it.

I doubt the authenticity of the signature and the card. Definitely not signed in the 1970s; seems to be a late '90s-2000s era signature.

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Scylla,

I just replied much the same to SAJ, but I hadn't read your post first - sorry! That's exactly what I think too. You wouldn't sign a Christmas card to people you are friendly with like your signing an autograph. :)

Perhaps the card itself is for real, but the autograph is the work of some internet scammer.

One for the photo mysteries thread, maybe.

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Yes, I am sure Knebby put an article on here from a Japanese magazine where Jimmy himself confirms this. Also, Marilyn Cole, Richard's ex-wife, states that to be the case in the Hoskyns book. I remember on the defunct Planet Zeppelin site, a member from San Diego got work backstage at a festival in 2006 where Roy Harper was appearing. During a conversation, Roy told the lady that it was Charlotte's decision not to marry.

Though he has used the word divorce in some interviews (perhaps for the purpose of expediency) they never married.

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in this interview on French TV in 2003, it is clear that the "divorce" (hence "marriage") was with Charlotte Martin. He answers a rather dumb question about music piracy (from 1min40sec) and mentions that he went through a difficult "divorce" period, left his house, then some bad people got close to his "ex-wife" and stole a lot of unreleased recorded materials. I think this story is widely known and discussed elsewhere on this forum. So given his own words he clearly thought of her as his wife, even if they were not officially married.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aK6vo28cN8

I add other excerpts from the same program, if you are interested. Many stupid questions ("do you prefer the Beatles or the Stones?") but also very frank ones on Crowley, drugs, Bonham...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzzWvIjAxo4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsngalFG

Is that David Gilmour sitting to Page's right in the blue sweater during this interview?

Edited by Disco Duck

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Not to flog this one to death, but when Charlotte and Jimmy got back together after the "divorce" is also a question.

Charlotte was there on Rhodes at the time of Robert Plant's accident (8 Aug 1975), right? I.e. on holiday as a family with Jimmy and Scarlet. Seems like a pretty quick reconciliation. But then Jimmy was going off alone to Sicily to check out the Abbey of Thelema and whatnot. . . perhaps it was just a "family" holiday for Scarlet's sake, without Jimmy and Charlotte really being back together? (Maybe they'd even opted to holiday with the Plant family in the hope that the Plants would be a bit of a buffer between people who weren't getting along too great...?)

Nick Kent in his Page interview published in Creem on the 4th Jan 1977 (or possibly 1st April 1977 - not sure whether the source I have is using UK or US dating), meanwhile, says that "the past 12 months have seen Page return to Charlotte". (Gotta love the way it's always assumed to be the bloke's choice to "return" - Charlotte was the one who'd been living in the flat above Equinox so I guess if there was any returning to be done, she'd be doing it. Kind of like it's assumed that he chooses whether to marry her or not).

Anyway, I just always found the Charlotte-being-on-Rhodes thing odd. Thoughts?

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Scylla,

There is a video on YouTube called 'Charlotte Martin' referring to the model, rather than the singer. Among the comments are ones from a 'CountLyev' who claims to have been employed by Jimmy and Charlotte for several years. One of his contributions is as follows, "...In fact, it was Charlotte who first left Jimmy in late 74/early 75. And it was Jimmy who begged for a reunion. It was Charlotte's decision not to marry, not Jimmy's. But yes, Jimmy used many groupies on the road. All the members of Led Zeppelin did. As he said, "that's what they're there for."If anyone was "lucky" in that relationship, it was Jimmy. And I promise you he would be the first one to say so."

The thing is that on a facility like YouTube, it is difficult to know who to believe about what. This person could be genuine, or a complete fantasist who has read sufficient online to make this up. The comments on the video make for entertaining reading. There are a few bunnyboilers on it.

Not to flog this one to death, but when Charlotte and Jimmy got back together after the "divorce" is also a question.

Charlotte was there on Rhodes at the time of Robert Plant's accident (8 Aug 1975), right? I.e. on holiday as a family with Jimmy and Scarlet. Seems like a pretty quick reconciliation. But then Jimmy was going off alone to Sicily to check out the Abbey of Thelema and whatnot. . . perhaps it was just a "family" holiday for Scarlet's sake, without Jimmy and Charlotte really being back together? (Maybe they'd even opted to holiday with the Plant family in the hope that the Plants would be a bit of a buffer between people who weren't getting along too great...?)

Nick Kent in his Page interview published in Creem on the 4th Jan 1977 (or possibly 1st April 1977 - not sure whether the source I have is using UK or US dating), meanwhile, says that "the past 12 months have seen Page return to Charlotte". (Gotta love the way it's always assumed to be the bloke's choice to "return" - Charlotte was the one who'd been living in the flat above Equinox so I guess if there was any returning to be done, she'd be doing it. Kind of like it's assumed that he chooses whether to marry her or not).

Anyway, I just always found the Charlotte-being-on-Rhodes thing odd. Thoughts?

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