JohnOsbourne
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New Book from Japan, Led Zeppelin Live Tour 1971-1972
JohnOsbourne replied to duckman's topic in Led Zeppelin Live
I agree, it's hilarious. -
Fully agree about Bolin, great guitarist, unfairly overlooked. Tragic that he couldn't keep clean.
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Yes it is.
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Cry Me a River is irrelevant here because Page only recently referred to it as an influence on STH (although he's always cited Graham as an influence on his acoustic playing as a whole), when the whole "immaculate conception" account couldn't be maintained. (And who cares if Graham's estate sues California's, or California's sues Journey? More irrelevance.) The issue concerns Taurus, it's obvious similarities to STH (in the beginning of the songs, it's again irrelevant that STH is a much better song), the connection between Spirit and Zep in the early days, and P&P's evasive (and easily refuted) statements about their familiarity with Spirit and their music (not to mention P&P's not-so-glorious history on these kinds of issues). Regardless of why California didn't pursue legal matters in his lifetime (too many people here seem to think "contingency basis" means lawyers can summon evidence out of thin air), this case is hardly baseless. This is not to say it's particularly strong, but it's amusing how many fanboys seem genuinely shocked that such allegations could be made against Zep.
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I stand corrected, the extent to which jurors will hear recordings is limited: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-28/led-zeppelin-to-face-retrial-over-stairway-theft-claims However, they *will* hear the recording, and it's hard to believe at least some of the jurors won't be influenced by it. And speculation about what witnesses P&P can provide aside, neither of those claims (esp. Page's) is particularly believable.
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Since the jury dismissed the claims of similarity based on in-court performances based on the sheet music, the question of access was neither relevant nor irrelevant, it played no role at that stage. (BTW, the official "immaculate conception" mythology of STH's origins has to now be put to rest, P&P should have done that from the start.) The problem now is that in the new trial, the jury will hear the *recorded* versions of the two songs, and only a deaf person could fail to notice the similarities in the beginnings. Then we come to the question of access, and this is precisely where P&P are weakest, given their evasive (and now refuted) statements about their familiarity with Spirit's music (as well as their own history in these matters, jurors can be instructed to ignore this but it's a reality that at least a few of them will know the background). You seem to be suggesting that P&P can commit perjury; yes, I suppose they can do that. I suspect their lawyers will advise against it, however.
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Of course Malofiy is throwing out a lot of extraneous shit, hoping it sticks, that's what lawyers do. And as I've said, his case is indeed weak, it hinges on witnesses who can connect P&P to Spirit's shows etc. Which probably explains why California didn't pursue the case during his lifetime: he knew the issue didn't hinge on the formal similarity of the opening notes and that he would need the means to track down witnesses to support the claim that Zeppelin was influenced by Taurus somehow. Are you aware that "works on contingency no money down" doesn't mean that the evidence to pursue a case magically appears out of thin air? That someone (e.g. the lawyer or plaintiff) has to actually work to find something, and that this requires real resources up front? Malofiy only had a real shot at winning because P&P's evasive statements (about their familiarity w/Spirit and their music) made them look very suspicious. My guess is that if Adler thought THIS would happen, he'd have seen better prospects for winning. But this is ultimately on Zep's lawyers for not making sure P&P kept their mouths shut.
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"Even if"? You understand that would be the entire basis of the copyright violation claim, right?
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LOL, as if you have any idea how much money California had in 1971 or any other year, or what Lou Adler thinks about this case. Just another fanboy who doesn't understand copyright law, and what's being claimed in the suit. BTW, as far as any suggestion that Randy California didn't see any problems here, there's this interview: http://turnmeondeadman.com/randy-californias-thoughts-on-stairway-to-heaven/
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The point is that you misunderstand copyright law. California's estate is not claiming monopoly rights over these common chord progressions for time immemorial (and have themselves noted differences between the two songs). They're claiming P&P were influenced by Taurus in writing STH and failed to properly attribute credit. So it's completely irrelevant how many other musicians have used those progressions, or if Davey Graham used them back in the 50's, or whether the lawyer is a sleaze bag, etc. It's also irrelevant whether the case has merit or what Randy California would have thought about it, then or now. P&P have themselves given a lot of ammunition to the plaintiffs by not being forthright to start, and it could very well come back to haunt them.
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You're just being a mindless fanboy here. Otherwise, you would know that this case has nothing to do with the (unquestioned) commonality of the underlying chord progressions across many other songs besides STH and Taurus. So bringing up how many other artists have employed similar musical devices is completely irrelevant. And for someone who claims to carry the banner of the common musician against corporate greed, it's amusing that you ignore the fact that maybe one reason Randy California didn't bring suit during his lifetime is because he lived in poverty and had no means to do so. And not that I give two shits what you think, but in fact I don't think this suit has much merit, although P&P should be called out for their evasiveness when asked about their familiarity with Spirit's music, the optics there were just terrible.
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I think you're thinking of a different show; Mobile cuts out after the beginning of Moby Dick.
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So, basically, nothing?
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Mobile '73 is an outstanding show, no question. Have you compared HTWWW with great audience bootlegs of the show like Burn Like a Candle? It would probably put an interesting perspective on it, I think you're overstating the extent to which the official release was juiced up in the studio.
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Well, that was an inspiring rant and all, but what does it have to do with the specifics of the claim (by Randy California's estate against Zeppelin)? How does the (unquestioned) venality of record labels relate to P&P's shooting themselves in the foot (by being evasive over their familiarity with Spirit's music)? How will a settlement in Zep's favor have any bearing at all on the nature of the music business today?
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I must have a mislabeled set, I agree the Night Stalker version is the 24th.
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The solo from the Night Stalker version is definitely the solo on my version of Deep Throat II, perhaps my discs were mislabeled, I'll poke around Black Beauty to see if I can confirm.
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Is it certain that this SB disc is entirely from the 24th? The version of TU appears on Deep Throat II (i.e. the 25th) on the CDs I have (unless they're mislabeled?).
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I also missed 2.
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I have to say, this release has raised my opinion a bit of the LA shows, esp. STH. The outstanding sound quality gives these songs a certain lift that's missing from the audience recording (Black Dog is still a gory mess). Looking forward to hearing the rest (eventually, in a few years ).
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The final version ever on 7-29-73 in NY is fantastic. And of course the 9-29-71 Osaka version.
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This is very enjoyable, good sound too, nothing to complain about. D&C is indeed hot, so is WLL. (It's definitely Detroit, Plant refers to it when saying goodnight, he also mentions the Grande Ballroom ("Grandee") after BYAS.) Forget those soundboards that will be trickled out over the next decade, give us more of these tapes, please!
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Sorry, what are you claiming? That most people who buy vinyl don't open the package, and therefore don't play/listen to the album? (And so obviously can't upload it.) Even if that's true (and I doubt it, most vinyl acolytes like the sound, which means they have to open the package), it doesn't matter if most won't, it only takes one person to do a digital transfer (easily doable) and upload. The problem is still there. Or do you mean something else?
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Photo of Band Taking a Bow at MSG July 73' Shows
JohnOsbourne replied to David Wetzel's topic in Photos
I'm a bit skeptical of this story, wouldn't Plant have mentioned him as he said goodnight to the crowd after WLL? All three MSG '73 shows are bootlegged, in particular WLL is complete, I'm unaware that he makes any mention of someone else on stage with the band. -
Already up at Black Beauty: http://starship.jpn.ph/zeppelin/beauty/
