Fresh Garbage Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Sorry i ment Orlando 1971 of course and not Toronto. My mistake. But the Denmark Radio was also very fast. Must listen to it again. Another good example for his bassdrum- speed can be heard on Gonzaga University 1968 in Pats Delight, just after Jimmy and JPJ stop playing. But of course, Orlando is very good! I wish Jimmy would release any concert from 1971. Perhaps the best year of each member (before Robert starts losing his voice)yea I thought you were talking about that amazing drum solo Bonzo does at the end of HMMT on the 8-18 Toronto gig... isn't it hilarious though that we as fans think that Bonzo is using a double bass (or pedal) when he really is only using one...I'm telling ya, that Orlando bit in D&C is the most impressive thing I have ever heard..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olster Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 listen at 15:00 mark during the Plant & Page duel... from there on is some of the fastest most precise bass pedal work I have ever heard... Nope....that's simply the most famous foot in the business! Single drum had nothing to do with Jimmy....he simply felt he had no need for it, and he was right. As Dave Lombardo said....he does with one what most cant do with two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimerosario Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Regarding Jimmy's said refusal to let Bonzo use a second kick. I have a theory. Jimmy was stage left. With a single kick, Jimmy could move in front of him and rock out, but he could also move to his left and get away from the cannon when necessary. Having a two-kick set angles the left drum right into his space, instead of the one central drum, dead ahead, thereby taking away that neutral zone over by his monitors. Perhaps that's why he didn't want it there. I sure can attest that when my drummer went from two kicks to a double pedal on a single drum, my life got a lot more bearable! Suffice to say, afetr nearly 20 years of being to my drummer's left, my right ear is pretty shot! Very interesting, soundwise. You have made your homework with that theory (and possible answer). I would add my following hypothesis, theory, whatever you call it. The band was at that time doing cover songs too, and some songs were a little more jazzy that required hi-hat playing. As Bonzo was very fluent with bass drum triplets it was really a waste using a second bass drum. Remember that Led Zeppelin was the first, if not a multitasking band, and sometimes Page played like having a clone on stage, so was Bonzo with his playing. Bonzo went more for drums, but he had also a great appreciation to Buddy Rich and liked a lot his playing and drum kit. Maybe he found in himself that was the rock answer to Buddy Rich, something not too far from it (greetings for both Maestros). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Single drum had nothing to do with Jimmy....he simply felt he had no need for it, and he was right. As Dave Lombardo said....he does with one what most cant do with two. Actually, when Bonzo ordered the second kick, the band took to hiding it from him. Robert is quoted as saying as much, so there could be some truth to my theory. Or not. Although I do agree about the best foot in the business, and the "he could do with one what most couldn't do with two" quote. Dave Lombardo?!! Damn, I used to party with that guy when he was in Sabotage! He went to high school in South Gate, CA, right up the road from me. He was friends with my pal Gene Hoglan, who my buddy Scott Owen (from Hyrax) went to school with in Long Beach. Man that was a time! The birth of speed metal! Rock on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Garbage Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Actually, when Bonzo ordered the second kick, the band took to hiding it from him. Robert is quoted as saying as much, so there could be some truth to my theory. Or not. Although I do agree about the best foot in the business, and the "he could do with one what most couldn't do with two" quote. Dave Lombardo?!! Damn, I used to party with that guy when he was in Sabotage! He went to high school in South Gate, CA, right up the road from me. He was friends with my pal Gene Hoglan, who my buddy Scott Owen (from Hyrax) went to school with in Long Beach. Man that was a time! The birth of speed metal! Rock on!!! yea, Sabotage were prety good I know the olivas were from Clearwater Fla. one of my home towns....I was living there when Chris was killed by a drunk driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 yea, Sabotage were prety good I know the olivas were from Clearwater Fla. one of my home towns....I was living there when Chris was killed by a drunk driver. Actually I think we got our wires crossed. Sabotage was Lombardo's high school cover band. You're referring to Savatage, who did some great stuff like Hall of the Mountain King, which was a minor hit on MTV's Headbangers Ball in the mid-80s. Tragedy about "Criss" though. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Garbage Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Actually I think we got our wires crossed. Sabotage was Lombardo's high school cover band. You're referring to Savatage, who did some great stuff like Hall of the Mountain King, which was a minor hit on MTV's Headbangers Ball in the mid-80s. Tragedy about "Criss" though. Very sad. yea that's right .. I don't know why I wrote Sabotage I must have been thinking of my favorite Sabbath record... Hall Of The Mountian King was a good record. I bought it while in living in Chicago in 87. and when my best friend came up from Florida, I said "you gotta check these guys out" and he said: "dude these guys practice two doors down from my house! and I know them all very well"....lol I was in shock! these guys were pretty popular in Fla. and Primus to.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 yea that's right .. I don't know why I wrote Sabotage I must have been thinking of my favorite Sabbath record... Not to worry my friend, Sabotage is a fucking killer album! Hole in the Sky, The Writ...Some of the best they ever did! In fact, my personal favorite Sabbath album! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supraphonic Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Actually, when Bonzo ordered the second kick, the band took to hiding it from him. Robert is quoted as saying as much, so there could be some truth to my theory. Or not. Although I do agree about the best foot in the business, and the "he could do with one what most couldn't do with two" quote. Dave Lombardo?!! Damn, I used to party with that guy when he was in Sabotage! He went to high school in South Gate, CA, right up the road from me. He was friends with my pal Gene Hoglan, who my buddy Scott Owen (from Hyrax) went to school with in Long Beach. Man that was a time! The birth of speed metal! Rock on!!! according to J P Jones he instructed the roadies to hide the second bass drum after the third concert with it,he said it just made the timing impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy page66 Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 this is outstanding drumming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockthing Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 Hey Rockthing, about the Orlando 8-31-71 show. doesn't it sound like Bonzo is using a double bass drum near the end of D&C? I'm gona listen right now and give you the time frame. be right back! Yeah, that's definitely one of the sick parts I was talking about. Never crossed my mind that he might be using a double, as I'd assumed, like others, that his second kick was a very short-lived experiment. I'd heard the same interviews with Jonesy or Plant, perhaps. Of course, it's much easier to say that his drumming is amazing when you've got a recording that features it clearly. :-) On the other hand, some of the ('75?) sound-boards, though clear and featuring Bonzo, don't really translate the open quality of his sound. I remember cranking up a live version of Moby Dick at my friend's club... must have been after everyone had gone or something, it's been a couple years ago.... I'm even spacing on which one it was, I'm thinking either 1973-06-03 (Three Days After) or 1971-09-29 Osaka, but it was a great tutorial on Bonzo's tuning. The guys in my friend's band were like, "WTF, his kick drum is totally un-damped!" They couldn't imagine doing that nowadays... and their right. Even on some really dreadful recordings, though, you can hear Bonzo's overall groove and above all, swing and it just brings a big smile to your face. :-) Take the 1972-06-11 Baltimore Jack. In this case the distance of the recording actually adds a hugeness to Moby Dick that is great, since balance with the other instruments is not crucial at this point. :-) At about 20 min. into WLL (d3t01?), just after Goin' Down Slow, Bonzo breaks into a killer swing with the high-hat going. It's pretty short. Jones offers some walking bass lines, but Page doesn't go anywhere near it He knew he was out of his depth on that one. (don't get me wrong, love Page!) I ahve an early Pat's Delight (sorry, don't have the date, and it's on my other computer, which is not hooked up currently. Maybe some trainspotters can pin it down for me). But it's off the fucking hook! My drummer has heard plenty of Bonzo, and this thing flat stunned him! He did all these polyrhythms over a 1-2-3, 1-2-3. 3s, 4s, 5s, all the while his hi-hat never wavered in its perfect meter, similar to how he breaks from Moby Dick into the solo at RAH, but way beyond. I never heard him do anything like it ever again. And he was just a kid at the time! I think he got more refined over time, but there's something raw and at the same time really complex going on in those first few months with Zeppelin. Other honorable mentions are Sick Again live, especially when he gets that circular pattern going toward the end, and the great Purdie shuffle of Fool in the Rain. As for him slowing down as he got heavier, I think the samba section on that song shows he still had it going on. Sometimes maturity can be confused with ability. As musicians mature and grow, they go for the less is more approach. Certainly Bonzo interviews of the time bear out that he was moving that way. More tasteful that balls-out fury. I dig what you're all saying about Listen to this Eddie. The way he breaks into TSRTS is pure fire! I also love on ALS, again toward the end, when he gets the hi-hat going, opening and closing in counterpoint to the galloping bass drum, right before the roll and the final return to the main theme. How the fuck do you get such independence of limbs?? And Good Times Bad Times of course. Who'd ever heard anything like that before? I'm sure some of you drum afficianados can cite something, but it's legend. The first track of the first album, and there's those incredible triplets with the cowbell and the kick. Unforgettable! Regarding Jimmy's said refusal to let Bonzo use a second kick. I have a theory. Jimmy was stage left. With a single kick, Jimmy could move in front of him and rock out, but he could also move to his left and get away from the cannon when necessary. Having a two-kick set angles the left drum right into his space, instead of the one central drum, dead ahead, thereby taking away that neutral zone over by his monitors. Perhaps that's why he didn't want it there. I sure can attest that when my drummer went from two kicks to a double pedal on a single drum, my life got a lot more bearable! Suffice to say, afetr nearly 20 years of being to my drummer's left, my right ear is pretty shot! Interesting theory about Jimmy's preference for a single kick. He definitely liked to move around and have spots for certain points in the concert. Ditto here for Good Times Bad Times. Right out the gate, they were taking no prisoners. Even now, it sends a chill down my spine when I put on the first album. The Jeff who Group? A lot of really good 'Sick Again's out there too. I never rated that song so highly until I started hearing it live. Now it's one of my favourites. If you get that other computer working, love to get a date for that Pat's Delight you're talking about. :-) Hopefully I've already got it, but just haven't applied a serious ear to it. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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